So we just go on waiting for another year? |
Nice pictures of CES Guido. Thanks for the link! I took my Criterion up to a friends over the weekend for a listen in his system. (Wadia 922/931 fed by 781i, Rowland 312 into Aerial 20t MKII via Silent source cables everywhere. The room was fully treated, but on wood upper floor.) The first listen was obviosly direct digital to amp for about 5-7 cuts. Then swapped after pre had been on for about 6 hrs for a listen. Upper mid to beyond took on a more solid feel not a thickening at all. The background stayed pitch black. Bass got just a tiny bit more authority, but the biggest effect was two fold. First the overal sound took on a sort of Majestic feeling. Yes, hard to explain but I think the bit of extra dynamics and sensity of the upper end gave it this feeling. Second was when huge and/or very loud uber dynamic swings were fed thru the stream, the pre kept it all together without even the time to sigh about the load! Now, I must tell you, if you haven't already figured it out, that the floors and walls were VERY active by now and feeding back from this energy. Yes the 312 can provide, but it needs unrestricted wall juice and needs to stay away from it's upper output limit due to the hardness and tendancy to start falling apart just before the thermal overload protection kicks in. We were listening that loud!I've said it before that the 312 is not the last word in low freq extention and dynamic cpability. Having heard it pushed hard in this system I still feel the same. It has tremendous transparency, and the imaging is spectacular. Look, it's not a pair of 200 lb mono's! It's a 65 lb stereo amp, that poud for pound kicks ass. It's not cheap, but it does more than most any amp I know in its price range. Sorry, got sidetracked and off subject. Just wanted to address some of the 312 amp comments on this and other threads I'm on. Anyway, going back to the Citerion...Taking it out of the chain was imeaditealy noticed. It was like "Hey, where did the majesty go?" There's probably a better pre out there, but at what price and will it be unaltering of the signal? |
Guido, are we going to see it before year end? I hate to keep asking Jeff every month about it, but we all thought it was just months away from production after seeing it at Jeff's CES exhibit...........Mine's been bought and oapid for from my dealer for 7 months! |
Well.....Did you ever get back for a good listen to the Rowland Criterion? I have one on order and am very interested in anyone's thoughts who have heard it personaly. I don't care to have anyone guess on its sound...I know what his previous pre amps sound like. No need to go there. Just the facts please. Thanks, David. |
I spoke with the front desk Chickie a few weeks ago about the Criterion. All she knew was that the final production circuit boards had been ordered by Jeff. |
Sounds like Dcstep, you'd better get down to soundings this week and have a listen in their own store setup. I'm sure they know how to set up a great stereo in a controlled and well designed room ! You say that particular Criterion only has about 70-100 hrs on it? I'll bet it needs 200-400 hrs to fully break in. |
So what's the deal on the story that it uses Op amps for signal amplification? Is that true? If so have designers come up with a ciruit that competes with Class A bias cicuitry using top shelf parts ? Mt Capri is very good in trasnparency, but my old Gryphon Sonata Allegro was better in areas such as bottom end heft, dynamics and quietness. I get a fair amt of hiss at full volume on the Capri/312 combo (witout source signal of course!) and not a damn thing at 1/2 inch from my tweeters with the Gryphon pair. |
Did I offend someone? I come from a Pilot background and no offense was inteneded whilst referering to the nice lady answering the phone at JRDG. While comming up the ranks we always referred to the pretty young lady answering phones as the airport receptionist as the "Front Desk Chickie" Just in case you truely had no clue what I was talking about! |
Recent communications provide that the software issue for the battery power supply control function is finished. Not aware if there are more programming issues, but Jeff says Criterion will be shipping before year end. Dave or Guido, can you tell me a bit more about the quality and performance of these op amps Jeff is using in his pre-amps? Has op amp technology gotten so good that it can compete with a Class "A" circuit using premium parts? |
Someone mentioned it would have a phono.....Was that meaning a input, or a on board amplification section.... |
Guido, did Jeff say how it's progressing towards a production date? I've waited nearly a year so far, so if it actually gets out his shop door by the end of this year Ill be satisfied. |
Guido, I was sceptical of your thoughts on the Capri being that good until I had my Wadia CD player upgraded (781) and then moded by Great Northern Sound to Statement level. The Capri has now shown me that my weakness in my system was my source! I won't get into a review here, but WOW is that thing great! If the Capri can show me what I'm now hearing (Avalon speakers) from my system it must be one killer pre. The most incredible thing about the Capri is its price. I know of no other preamp that can touch it for under $10K That Criterion is going to be something very, very special. I can't wait to get mine!!!! |
Well Gang, we are down to the last 30 days in this year and I sure hope Jeff can get this thing out the door in time for Santa to put it in his bag of Christmas toys to be left under my tree Christmas morning! |
Yes, but was the reciver fully programmed? |
Oooh. AudioFail, you just glow with a supremely bright shade of Green! |
I have a new Criterion and will report on my thoughts after a few hours of break in. Obviously, it's drop dead gorgeous and has incredibly smart features. I'll get to some of these later. First, a little taste. It's already better at soundstaging placement cold out of the box than my Capri. |
Braz, the Pagannini is much, much better if you can afford it. If not, the Puchinni is acceptable. But....Many other units to look at at this price point! Even the Wadia 781 is compareable to the Pucuinni. With the sort of resolution you now have with the Criterion, you should be looking at better CD play back systems than the Puchinni. Perhaps the Esoteric P03/D03 or Wadia 922 Decoding system and the new Teac sourced clamping transport. I hear from a good friend that this combinataion is astonishingly good! Aloha, David. PS, The Criterion is at about 275 hrs now on input #1 and 100hrs on #2. It has opened sufficiently on #2, but still a bit grainy and slightly shy of full dynamics. It's hard to describe, but it is posiible that the dynamics are in fact fully developed now on #2 input, but the rsloution around the images that have the greatest impact still do not have the deliniation of the more fully broken in input of #1. I have probably another 2 weeks of break in on input #1 before I can give a full opinion. The other inputs will just need to wait until I can give them the signal they need over time to run in their pathways! |
I'm not going to repeat Guido's comments on the entire break in process, except to say I have found the same things changing at the same time he did. If anyone needs further clarification on it, please ask. I will say that I was suprised at the need to run signal into each input to achieve full break in for that particular input #. After one input was run in, switching to say input #2, caused an implosion in the soundstage and lack of detail & dynamics etc... In other words, each numbered input must be run in with signal for at least 250 hrs to "open" it up. Standby for thoughts after full break in. |
Guido, I think Husk01 is speaking of Pre Amps.....Sounds like the MBL could be a very serious contender to the Criterion. The Dartzeel is colored in comparison to the Rowland. |
Hi Mike. Glad to have you in on this. I'm fairly confident the Criterion will exceed the "Zeel" in most areas (yes I heard it in both modes, But having a bigger influence on the Zeel than the Rowland). As far as the 312, I do think it is a superb amp, but lacks overal slam and bass extention in comparison to other amps at this pre amp level. It's greatest attributes are the transparancy, image placement and honest neutral timbres. I just miss the sort of full bodied sound I had when I ran a Gryphon Antellion Sig (196 lb Class A Solid State) Would I trade the ultimate transparency of the Rowland for the Gryphon...? Not at first thought, but when considering the heat (I live in Houston, TX) I must live with the Rowland. BTW: I'm an electric Bass player. The Rowland's bass is more accurate in the details, but leaves a void in comparison to the Gryphon. I hear he has an upgrade in the works that deals directly with my (and a few others!)complaint. Aloha, David. |
Dave, when do you think you might be able to get to Soundings for the Pre amp comparissons? Should be VERY interesting as Jeff R. has designed that thing to be as close to standard impedances everywhere in and out so as to have minimal effect of other components up and downstream. I'd love to hear it on a big tube amp(s):}) |
Huh? What big ears you have said the wolf! |
Chris, I have owned or intimately listened to many of the pre amps you mentioned, however until you have heard the THIS preamp you don't realize how way off base you are in stating that there is no reason to replace one's existing preamp. I own the Criterion and I'll flat out tell you that if you actually still think after listening to it in comparison to most of the above pre amps and still find no reason to replace it..... Congratulations! You're going to save yourself a bunch of money in this hobby! All these pre amps you mention are so far apart in performance scale from best to worst. What was once world class, as in the ML 26S, is way outclassed by a pre such as the BAT REX. If I had a ML 26S I'd sell it immeadiately after hearing the REX. This is just one example. My point is it sounds like you either need to get some updated listening comparisons or you just can't hear the difference. This is a tough hobby to be in if you can't hear the difference. On second thought, it just might make it easier! |
Sorry gang, my last response was from a far earlier post on this topic by Chris who found no reason to sell a preamp for another. I felt compelled to respond,I'm just about year too late! aloha, David. |
Cappuccino, Not sure if I or someone else has asked you this, but have you any knowledge of the comparitive performance between your 301 mono's and the 312 that Guido & I both have being run by the Criterion. Also, have you tried or already own the Criterion? Aloha, David. |
Yes How true Guido. I died a Thousand times waiting for the Criterion. (2 years!)It is better than I though it would EVER be. I would actually go as far as saying it is irreproachable ! Yes Virginia, it is THAT good. The only other pre amp I've ever heard that comes close (but with lots less air aruond instruments, and less definition in the nether regions) is the Gryphon Sonata Allegro. |
Dave I'm not using the power correction device, but I have used it for a few days in and out for a trial a few months back. It was very slightly better sound (more musicly refined) than without it, but had nothing to do with the "Hiss." I'm talking full volume without source signal with ear up to tweeter type hiss :) |
I like the Dartzeel very much! What's not to like? My only reservation is that if you go beyond the resolutuion of CD the Dartzeel will have a very very slight masking effect and a tad bit of warmth to the perspective in comparison to the Criterion. The Criterion is probably the most neutral and honest piece of audio gear I have EVER listened to in my entire life's experience. This is not necessarilly a good thing, but it is a stated opinion and you must understand its implications if you think you want it in your system. If you are CD only on a poorly sourced system, you will not be happy. It realy isn't "ruthlessly revealing", but just honest in all regards. It is as I've said before... A reviewer's dream machine! I have heard both (Dartzeel)now extensively and can make that comment without hesitation or doubt. The question I'm starting to think about is how it compares to the MBL mentioned in a recent prior post? Aloha, David. |
