New Mag-Lev Turntable

One can’t help wondering why the inventors of the mag lev turntable didn’t also employ mag lev for the tonearm, which appears to be an easier task than mag leving the platter. Then the new mag lev turntable would be analogous to the air bearing everything Maplenoll (that I used to own), the special edition one with the 50 lb platter. I’m also not sure why all the hoopla since vinyl records have been "flying in the air" for more than 30 years, you know, with Maplenoll, Verdier and Walker turntables. Looks like a clear case of stove piping.

cheers

"As Davorin Furlan noted during the project presentation, the product combines a commercial factor and a desire to meet current design trends. “We came to a conclusion that during our talks about new ideas, we often change platters thinking for a long time, which one should be played the next. At first, our idea on that a vinyl record has to fly in the air seemed strange. However, the things changed after we bought a magnetic levitator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV9Pi-K56ks

and found out that it was possible indeed,” the product developers told. After several months of tests, they were able to create a working prototype of a classic turntable."

Rigid
- unable to bend or be forced out of shape; not flexible.
- not able to be changed or adapted.

Yes- that is how I was using that. In addition, I expect the plinth to otherwise be as dead as possible.

Its important to understand that no plinth will be 100% rigid and dead but you do the best you can.

@Atmasphere - fwiw I enjoy reading your posts on amplifiers / preamps, but do find your posts on analog playback don’t follow my experiences sometimes. Like here. Could this be because you sell Empire turntables and have a business relationship with Triplanar ? Well thats cool;
but all you have to do in your own room is start the 15 IPS tape and then 10 seconds later start the record. Toggle between the two adjusting for the fact one is high level and one is low level. The turntable set up is very tweakable so one can learn its limits quickly this way and adjust.  Have you compared this way in your own personal room ?
Because of the eminently tweakable nature of turntables, I never set up a room with vinyl first. Digital and Tape 15 IPS has excellent, consistent bass. Once that is setup I bring in the vinyl artillery. Its that easy.

I use master tapes as a reference, and have LPs and CDs made from the master tapes. Having been there when the recording was made is an enormous help in establishing a reference! (Atma-Sphere LP 3-001 also issued on CD being one I refer to a lot)

I do sell the model 208 turntable which is heavily based on the Empire, however the ability to market this machine is really limited due to the fact that its entirely dependent on our ability to find the original machines. The 208 is also not a big seller; I base my comments more on how any LP mastering lathe is designed where its very obvious in spades that this rigid coupling concept I espouse is well-known and striven-for by the lathe producers.

Now you might argue that what applies to the lathe does not apply to playback but its pretty easy to see why that idea would be mistaken. In a nutshell, ideally you reverse the process during playback. The addition of an extra plane or planes of vibration during playback on its face sounds like its not a good idea and this is borne out in practice. At every point when we improved the plinth in the turntable by making it more rigid and more dead the closer it got to sounding like the master tape.

Regarding Triplanar: my 'business relationship' with them is limited to shows. I own several of their arms because they have proven over the years to do the best job of playing the LPs I mentioned earlier. To that end specifically: tracking is effortless, the bass is obviously better (in the recording the biggest bass drum in the state of Minnesota was employed on my insistence; it was 6' in diameter and is played both loudly and very quietly; many systems fail to bring it out properly); the mids and highs have the best definition and sound the closest to the tape of any arm I've heard.

Ct0517 wrote,

@Atmasphere and Geoffkait - I find your use of the word Rigid misleading. Why don’t you use "Mechanically Connected" or something like that instead.

Rigid
- unable to bend or be forced out of shape; not flexible.
- not able to be changed or adapted.

That's how we're using the word rigid. With the caveate I'm using that seismic forces can bend anything even a foot thick aluminum bar. Thus, speaking for myself there can be no such thing as completely rigid in the sense that even when two objects are mechanically connected both objects can move when forced by seismic uh, forces. 

@Atmasphere and Geoffkait - I find your use of the word Rigid misleading. Why don’t you use "Mechanically Connected" or something like that instead.

Rigid
- unable to bend or be forced out of shape; not flexible.
- not able to be changed or adapted.

Bruce Thigen did much work, analysis in this field.

From ET2 manual.
The large surface area of the air bearing uses some of the tightest tolerances in tonearm manufacturing today, and is much more rigid at audio frequencies than metal bearings.

The detailed data is available for viewing if anyone is interested.

I own Mag Lev, Air and Metal bearings.

@Atmasphere - fwiw I enjoy reading your posts on amplifiers / preamps, but do find your posts on analog playback don’t follow my experiences sometimes. Like here. Could this be because you sell Empire turntables and have a business relationship with Triplanar ? Well thats cool;
but all you have to do in your own room is start the 15 IPS tape and then 10 seconds later start the record. Toggle between the two adjusting for the fact one is high level and one is low level. The turntable set up is very tweakable so one can learn its limits quickly this way and adjust.  Have you compared this way in your own personal room ?
Because of the eminently tweakable nature of turntables, I never set up a room with vinyl first. Digital and Tape 15 IPS has excellent, consistent bass. Once that is setup I bring in the vinyl artillery. Its that easy.

**********

Back to the OP Mofi’s thread topic.

716 backers pledged $551,298. Looks like they met their goal.

Looking to learn. I would be interested if any of these backers/buyers can post their experiences here.

Cheers

Atmasphere wrote,

"When the base of the arm and the surface of the platter are not rigidly coupled, the result is that any motion in which both are not a party will be interpreted by the pickup as a coloration. One example could be a loss of bass.

In a turntable ideally there will be no slop in the bearing of the platter or the bearings of the arm so that this rigid coupling can occur. In that way if the platter has motion other than rotation, the arm is moving in the same plane and so cannot pick up whatever that motion (noise) is about. Quite simply, any turntable that breaks this rule for whatever reason will be incapable of state of the art performance."

Actually, Maplenoll turntables employed both air bearing platters AND air bearing tonearms. One assumes the $100K Walker turntable does as well since Lloyd bought out Maplenoll years ago. Thus the tonearm base and the surface of the platter cannot be rigidly connected. Yet Maplenoll TTs are some of the best sounding turntables of all time, and one would imagine Lloyd’s TT is as well, including bass performance. The warhorse Verdier TT employs a mag lev suspension for the heavy platter, obviously decoupling the platter from the tonearm base.

even in the case when the platter and tonearm base are rigidly coupled the whole TT is subject to bending forces produced by Seismic vibration, not to mention the tonearm and platter are excited by Sesimic vibration in the region of their resonant frequencies. So it’s no as if the situation is inert or competely rigid, anyway.

geoff kait
machina dynamica

I wonder if an isolation device under a cutting machine would be of benefit?  

Yes. And the industry made isolation platforms for lathes going way back to the old days (1940s and 1950s). In addition, the lathe we use is mounted on a special table that has adjustable pointed feet. We audiophiles were several decades late getting to the party!

I agree with what Ralph says above. Mag-Lev under the entire turntable may have some merit. It would just act like a simple spring though. A Minus K or a piezo electric table base would probably work better.

You would never see a vinyl cutting machine with a design like the turntable the OP posted about.

I wonder if an isolation device under a cutting machine would be of benefit?   

When the base of the arm and the surface of the platter are not rigidly coupled, the result is that any motion in which both are not a party will be interpreted by the pickup as a coloration. One example could be a loss of bass.

In a turntable ideally there will be no slop in the bearing of the platter or the bearings of the arm so that this rigid coupling can occur. In that way if the platter has motion other than rotation, the arm is moving in the same plane and so cannot pick up whatever that motion (noise) is about. Quite simply, any turntable that breaks this rule for whatever reason will be incapable of state of the art performance.

Thanks to Vic the Magician, I´ve been enjoying the benefit of maglev spindle/platter for nearly three years now and there is no returning...

from the website

safety is taken care of

Accidents happen, and we know that sometimes you may encounter a power outage, so we’ve designed the turntable with a UPS system. This solution stores enough power to safely lift the tonearm, stop the record, and return the platter feet to resting position. This way the turntable and your record remain in perfect condition even when the unexpected happens

cool

You know - all of us are merely caretakers for our vinyl. Our records will outlive all of us. Out of box thinking for old technology, that I think will bring in young hearts and minds.

they are up to 588 backers now.

Me thinks sarcher30 is not one of them     :^)

.....good things come out of Slovenia

Good point.   Another reason I am curious to see how that all works out.  

The business model is new to me as well.   Not sure how that works either. 

Highly sceptical of this table. Mag Lev with no points of contact is very difficult to do. Not sure how it could be done at all, especially for so little money.

If it can be done, it would require powerful magnets that I would not want anywhere near my cartridges.  

I'd like to know how the business process works.
 
According the website 580 people have pledged $434,585.
and it says 

This project will be funded on Mon, Nov 21 2016 9:00 AM EST.

So looks like they will be making at least 600 units.
 
Does anyone have real experience with this type of business endeavor ?    

Its very cool. Curious to hear about how well it works out.

I been following this for a while. I might consider buying one solely for a collector's item. Does anyone know how good the tone arm and cartridge are. My biggest concern is what happens if it needs servicing and the company is not around anymore?