New Lampizator Level 4/ Version 4 DAC in the house

Yes Charles,

Lukasz is a great guy. I finally met him in person a month ago and it was a definite thrill.

Charles, I had met him a few months ago and those were my same impressions of Lukasz...add to your list his 'humble' persona and sprinkle it with both audio engineering brilliance and an [obviously] discerning ear... and I agree with your prediction.
My "trail" of Lampi equipment first from an L4G4 Dac to my current Big 6 Dac and the Lampizator TranspOrt has me listening to the best digital sound I have ever heard. YM WON'T vary. It's refreshing to see how the combination of serious talent and hard work, works.
Let me add a big thanks to Fred and Rob too for their help in "Getting it done".

Can someone explain just what the Lampi transport is? No need for a computer? Thanks much.

Looks like it connects to a computer.....love to hear some comments about it. Sounds like the Lampi room sounded great with Dale's speakers and the TRL Dude preamp. I wish I could have been there. I have only been to one audio show and that was some 20 years ago in NYC!

Bill,
The sound was good but I don't think I heard the Lampizator at its best. The speaker was very new (Dale Pitcher was still working on it the day before).
The room was relatively small (unlike the rooms at the Venetian hotel, beautiful) and the speaker close to the wall behind it. My gut tells me the Lampizator will really sing in an optimized room/system.
I heard the Lampizator 7 in the Fritz speaker's larger space (speakers out in the open) . I think that ideally the Pitcher speaker just needed more room to breathe and burn in time.
Charles,

The Lampizator transport converts from a computer format such as FLAC or WAV to SPDIF. Here is the Lampizator link that provides a comprehensive explanation. I have had one for about 2 1/2 years and I think it is amazing. However, it doesn't cover all high-resolution music. It only goes up to 24/88 as it is based upon the Squeezebox Duet.

http://lampizator.eu/szop/szopproducts/LZ-TRANSPORT/Lampizator%20transport.html

There is also a USB Transport.

http://lampizator.eu/shop/viewitem.php?productid=145

Thanks,
Jim

From what I heard, several reviewers and audio dealers loved what they heard and had it as one of the top rooms at the Show.

At least 3 review request were made.

Agear,
Based on my listening the Lampizator 7 is a superb choice. It simply makes music which is much easier said than done. I also heard rooms utilizing the DCS and MSB stacks, I'll gladly take the presentation of the Lamp 7 instead. It justs depends on what truly touches you.
Charles,

Agear - look, there is nothing sinister about my comments of tubes not being the best choice for digital. Any EE worth his salt will agree with this. I have 30 years of salt in my ears.

This is a lot like the habit that many designers have to use HC logic family for digital circuits that must maintain low-jitter. Makes no sense at all, except to those that don't understand the physics.

There also companies that offer tube analog buffer stages that don't understand why these are interesting. They actually do work well in many cases. It has to do with replacing a low-drive strength DAC output buffer with one with high drive strength, better adapted to drive a cable with capacitance. The ideal thing would just have a better output stage in the DAC.

There is a lot of blind leading the blind designers out there. Sometimes bad habits and choices get copied. I've seen it all. Even junior designers from Sony making fundamental errors in high-end CDPs. Modding a LOT of components for over 10 years opened my eyes.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Agear - did you go to THE Show at CES?

I'm sorry to say that the Lampizator room did not have one of the best sounds at the show. It was just average. The speakers were brand new and the room was very small. I however, liked what I saw and after talking with the head man himself ordered one. I hope I will like it as time will tell.

Best room at The Show was Zesto Audio with the Merrill TT. Having George Merrill there himself didn't hurt either. Found him quite entertaining. Like JWM found the Lampizator room average. That said nothing touched the Highwater Sound room at the Venetian. Okay a little biased as they used our 300B's, but I was working the Concert Fidelity room and while the TAD CR-1s were quite good, those Cessaro's are to die for.

Thanks Andrew, ya I was a little too sensitive and your right that I should start my own system thread. I will as soon as I can post my virtual system.

My vote goes to Jeffrey at Highwater Sound with Cessaro and Electra Print Audio 300b silver transformers. Best I've heard Cessaro to date. On another note the L7 sounded very effortless and analog like.

The Cessaro-Electra Fidelity room impressed me as well. It was one of the very few that had a true live like flesh and blood presence. Only nitpick is it had to be cranked up in volume to achieve this effect. When played at lower volume the tactile prresence was diminished. That said the tonality and naturalness was still among the most convincing I heard.
Clio09 nice meeting you and your have a very good sounding 300b amplifier.
Charles,

The Asian audiophile community (particularly audio exotics ) are going crazy over the Cessaro horn speakers although as Miguel alluded to, they can be a challenge to optimize and have their limitations. I am sure Jeffrey had the appropriate music playing for them, and his rooms are ALWAYS an oasis.

Just to prove audiophiles are schizophrenic, here is Miles Astor's list of top rooms at CES: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue71/ces20145.htm

No mention of any of the rooms discussed here. Oh well. Perception is reality in audio. Just keep the self-important and solemn declarations to a minimum. :)

p.s. I did not attend due to my surgical duties.

Even though the lampizator room was very average sound, I was still able to identify some very positive attributes in Dale's speakers. Coherency, effortlessness and the lack mechanical speaker distortions where very easy to identify. I think room challenges, lack of correct amp match didn't help showcase the strengths of this speaker design. After listening to many rooms with small footprint speakers it was evident these where in class of their own.

Bill, I know many philes would blessed by a system thread from you. I have always appreciated your zeal and passion and the good guidance you have given me over the years. That way, we can bandy around information for the sake of sound and music minus the politicking and conscious and subconscious agendas that so often infest equipment-specifc threads....:)

01-12-14: Audioengr writes

Agear - look, there is nothing sinister about my comments of tubes not being the best choice for digital. Any EE worth his salt will agree with this. I have 30 years of salt in my ears.

Obviously they can work. Gordon Rankin, Alex Peychev, Lukasz Fikus, Dan Wright and so on have shown that.

Regards,

Metralla - these that you mention are not digital application of tubes. These tubes are all used in the analog output stages.

I also used to offer a tube output DAC. This is analog, not digital.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Charles, nice meeting you and JWM and thanks for the compliment. I appreciate the time you guys spent in both the Concert Fidelity and Highwater Sound rooms.

Gearhead ticking some folks off is he?
Sharp pen and no L4 OR L5 nor L7 does it every time.

Clio09,
By the way the Concert Fidelity -TAD was once again one the very best just as it was last year at CES. Concert Fidelity is a top tier product, I heard it paired with the Kaiser Kawero at RMAF 2011 and the sound was devine.
Charles,

I've attended CES 6 times and on a number of occasions have been in the room with prominent reviewers listening to the same demonstrations. While they smile and nod their heads in approval I sit there and think the sound is dry, highly processed audiophile check list hifi. I'm probably spoiled from years of hearing live jazz in small un -miked venues. If a component cannot reproduce full tone, body, harmonics, dynamics and convey music's emotion, it's a failed product. There were a number of expensive systems at CES that failed in my opinion. Analytical -sterile and devoid of life and emotion.
Charles,

01-13-14: Audioengr writes:

Metralla - these that you mention are not digital application of tubes. These tubes are all used in the analog output stages.

Thanks for the clarification. I misread the point that was being made.

Regards,

I have worked Concert Fidelity rooms for 4 years now and have heard them with the Kaiser Kowero speakers and some others. In my opinion the TAD CR-1 speakers made for the best pairing with their electronics. This CES was my favorite CF set up.

Charles, if you were at RMAF in 2011 we crossed paths back then as I worked that room. Would be interested in your thoughts on the Kaiser's versus TAD.

Gearhead ticking some folks off is he?
Sharp pen and no L4 OR L5 nor L7 does it every time.

Ha, I was discipled by the best!

If a component cannot reproduce full tone, body, harmonics, dynamics and convey music's emotion, it's a failed product.

While I agree with the sentiment Charles, every system I have ever heard (including the turds I have cobbled together) fail miserably. It depends on what part of the "processed" hifi spectrum you live on. You are an audio relativists (at least from the posts I have read), and that is a logical position to take.

I have read up on the Lampizator transport and in the end it is really a converter just like the Offramp I already own. It takes the WAV, AIFF etc files and converts them to Spdif before sending to the Lampi dac.

I decided to stick with the Offramp and just purchased the Dynamo power supply for the Offramp. Perhaps someday I can compare both the Lampi converter and the Offramp. Like to hear both in my system.

I know my Offramp converter/Lampi 4/4 combo is just awesome folks. I am sure the Lampi transport and dac combo is also killer!

For those using the USB input on your Lampi dacs I strongly suggest getting one of these two converters and use the spdif input on your Lampi dac. Just a big jump in sound quality folks.

Clio09,
I'll answer on your system page.
Charles,

I decided to stick with the Offramp and just purchased the Dynamo power supply for the Offramp. Perhaps someday I can compare both the Lampi converter and the Offramp. Like to hear both in my system.

I can't comment on the sound but the Lamp transport is a much much simpler setup. All you need is a digital cable between transport and DAC and run Logitech Media Server on ANY computer with horse power. No special drivers, power supplies ...

Now if the Lamp transport buffers data before play, using wireless and generic cables will yield the same performance as wired and audiophile grade cables.

I run a similar setup and prefer Logitech Media Server over eLyrics and JRiver Media Servers.

For home music servers, I would run something similar to Bryston BDP-2 or ethernet.

Knghifi, that all makes sense to me. Isn't your background computers? I think that is what Gary Anderson told me. You need a system thread too so you can show off those TADs....

Clio, I agree the TAD Concert Fidelity room was great. I also like the TAD Zesto room as well. I can't say which was better. As far as Cessaro I liked the room as well. My only complaint is that the music had a foward dynamic presentation on every piece of music I heard. Sometimes I like a relaxed sound as well. It just maybe that we were sitting too close. I have a friend who owns the Edger horn with Compression JBL drivers and he sits 15 feet back.

Grannyring,

I think the USB input of the Lampizator works VERY well when paired with a quiet server. I have one friend that tried my L4 and another L4 owner with a Sonicweld Diverter/Offramp4 and both preferred the music via the USB output through their PC/Modded Mac Mini. They felt the converter had better timing and pace, but they both agreed that the effortlessness, 3-D and magic was much more apparent with the USB connection. At the end of the day, my friend sold his Offramp4. So I guess it all boils down to personal taste and is very system dependent. I have no doubt that the Offramp4 sounds superior in your system, but just want to let folks know that the USB can sound very good too.

Great work Lampizator Team, sounds like you guys made a solid first impression in Vegas, congratulations. Hopefully you guys can set up shop in Newport Beach and Denver this year!

Just a quick shout out to High Water Sounds. Jeff and company have always managed to amaze me at every show I go to. He is one of the good guys at the show that just loves to share his views and passion about music. Their rooms produce music that just pulls you in emotionally and sound truly effortless with lifelike dynamics. The Cessaro horns are magical, but a pair of their entry level ones cost more than my entire system by a wide margin, so for me it's a pipe dream, maybe in the next life? Probably not...

JWM, I actually enjoyed the presentation of the Cessaro's better from the upper listening position. Same with the TAD in our room. Not that the lower level was bad, but after listening to music non-stop for 8 to 10 hours a day it's nice to get a little further back from the sound.

Bruce Edgar is a friend of ours and we have a couple sets of his speakers lying around. Preference is to sit a little further back and no toe-in. His speakers can really push some air.

Back to the original topic. I can see why Bill prefers the Offramp. I have to say I much prefer having a USB converter as the interface rather than going direct into the USB input, but in my case I bypass the SPDIF cable altogether and just plug the device into the digital input. One less cable to get in the way.

Many members on this thread are familar with TRL Samson ... TRL SS sound. It doesn't sound like SS or tubes but just music. I tell ya, it's a superb match with the TAD E1. It's competitive with all MORE expensive SS amps I've demoed. Along with my VAC SigMKIIa, I wonder how it stacks up to Zesto and Concert Fidelity?? Look forward to the Newport Beach Show in May snd check them out.

Almost sold them last year and turns out the problem was my old EW Andra II. It's too bad Paul doesn't market his stuff.

I'm the North American co-distributor for Lampizator and I would like to clear up some confusion. We make a USB converter ( converts USB to SPIDF) and a SPIDF transport ( aka the Digilampizator ). Two different products. The transport is a higly modified Squeezebox DUET with a tube rectified PSU and a tube SPIDF output. The tubed SPIDF allows us to output a perfect sinewave to our DACS. It is a cinch to setup, much easier then any turntable. I had a mac mini previously but sold it once I heard the Digilampizator transport.

Me and Fred ( Gopher )admittedly had weather related problems getting all our gear to the show on time. Not until Friday did we have what I thought was exceptional sound quality. Can't please all the people all the time, but we are very happy that we pleased many nonetheless.

I heard mixed reviews of the TAD rooms. The word flat was bandied around. Not up to their normal standards.

On another note, it looks like hires wireless streaming is here and was present at CES:

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/bluesound-audiophile-sonos-killer
http://www.bluesound.com/our-story

Former NAD engineers are behind this....finally.

OK, getting REALLY back on topic (talk of other rooms and amps are entertaining, but faaar off topic) can we speak about differences in the L7 to other more known levels?

Is the L7 based on the L5 or L6 circuit? What are the major design differences? I have seen the ga-ga Hong Kong feedback online and in some emails, so this has piqued my curiousity.

Retail for the L7 should be around $10K in the US, no?

What about DHT tube choice, ie 300b, 2A3, or 45 Triodes? There is talk on another forum that the NOS 45s have the advantage of being plentiful and cheap in the marketplace. Is this so?

Anyone here got to hear the Lampi/Intuitive room on Friday when the FINALLY got all the kinks out and the sound came into its own?

My feedback is the L7 move to the King of the line position and the Dale speakers finally showed their true worth!

I heard L7 is already sold and the level is backordered until Feb at least. Hong Kong and the US are the demand leaders.

Hopefully Lukasz still makes the SB Transport, as I keep hearing good things about it. My own Duet is modded with better caps and is fed by a dedicated LPSU built into my L4, but the clock upgrade and digilampi section, plus the i2S internal implementation apparently takes it to another level entirely.

Later this year I will likely take the plunge.

Wisnon,
The Lamp 7 uses the level 5 power supply and the level 6 circuit. The implementation of the DHT tube is true brilliance in my opinion, low power DHT are capable of splendid natural sound. I absolutely love the 300b but the very good versions of this tube are expensive and you don't need their higher power output for a DAC application. I'd go with the 2A3 or the 45 tube and can't imagine how someone couldn't be thrilled with the fabulous realism they'd have. I think the level 7 is pure genius in concept and execution. DAC chip directly coupled to the DHT grid no resistor or capacitor in the way, then Duelund CAST output coupling capacitors. No
stupid OP-amps with their tag along NFB! Like I said previously, Lukasz is
one very smart man.

Charles,
Charles,

Many members on this thread are familar with TRL Samson ... TRL SS sound. It doesn't sound like SS or tubes but just music. I tell ya, it's a superb match with the TAD E1.

[quote]Almost sold them last year and turns out the problem was my old EW Andra II. It's too bad Paul doesn't market his stuff.[quote]

Amen to all that. The Samsons are extraordinary SS amps. High bandwidth, effortless, without any traces of SS glare, strain, or compression. I owned them for 4 years and sold them simply due to the audiophile itch....

I heard mixed reviews of the TAD rooms. The word flat was bandied around. Not up to their normal standards.

It would be news if there was no mixed reviews. When is there ever consensus in this hobby?

Since there are many familiar with TRL in this thread, I just want to share how well Paul's SS amp stacks up against the BIG ticket competition. There's nothing for me to add on TAD. It's heavily reviewed by professionals and owners.

The transport is a highly modified Squeezebox DUET with a tube rectified PSU and a tube SPIDF output

Spec indicates 24/96, still based on Duet? Duet only supports 24/88.2. Maybe SB Touch?

Not true the TAD's sounded great in all their rooms.

What's wrong with flat? To me that means no artificial emphasis of any frequency. You want emphasis or de-emphasis get an equalizer or something with tone controls. The TADs let you hear exactly what is coming from the source through your associated electronics. Not what everyone likes to hear though. I will admit TADs are unforgiving, but like JWM felt all the rooms I heard them in sounded very good. Nothing like judging for yourself.

BTW - Andrew Jones held court one evening at the TAD reception. Amazing guy and quite a history. Not sure how but we quickly morphed from a discussion about speakers to classic cars.

The direct USB input from my Mini was no match for the Offramp into my Lampi spdif input. Not even close. The difference was so stark I cannot even imagine a different outcome. I use a modified Mac Mini.

I am confused with the Lampi transport I must admit. On the Lampi site Lucas calls it essentially a converter to spdif. Those were his own words in the very beginning of the article on the transport.

Do I still need my Mac Mini or with the Lampi transport can I sell it? The Offramp is simple as it just connects to the Mac mini by USB and to my Lampi with spdif.

Perhaps someone can list the order of gear with arrows when using the Lampi transport/converter device. I know I am not the only Aphile confused on this piece. It would help us all.

Berony, does the Lamp Transport cache/buffer data before play? A track? whole CD?

Lukasz knows his stuff. In his Lamp Transport page, he clearly explains why computer audio is superior to cd player and without saying, IF executed correctly.

Amen to the TRL Samson amps. Just great SS amps and known by very few unfortunately. Mated with the Dude you have something very special.

I heard that combo with the Lampi dac in a fellow Agoner's system and it was just awesome!

Bill, click on this link and scroll past the photos.

http://lampizator.eu/szop/szopproducts/LZ-TRANSPORT/Lampizator%20transport.html

You will see two sections, one called Example of System Set-up and one called Example of New System. The latter describes use with a MacMini. This should give you a good idea of what is involved. Basically the Lampizator transport is middleware like the Offramp. Just some different methods to connect everything together and from what I can tell only handles 24/96.

IIRC, someone on this thread was mentioning Sample Manager as a software tool to convert bit depth and resample rates using Izotope. I just cloned my library and converted anything 16/44.1 to 24/88.2. Now I just play the files natively in JRiver bypassing their SRC. So far so good with the results.

Thanks Clio09. Ya, your comments seem correct. I will have to compare 88.2 files to 96. Many have said 88.2 sounds best.