New Lampizator Level 4/ Version 4 DAC in the house

Grannyring,

I think the USB input of the Lampizator works VERY well when paired with a quiet server. I have one friend that tried my L4 and another L4 owner with a Sonicweld Diverter/Offramp4 and both preferred the music via the USB output through their PC/Modded Mac Mini. They felt the converter had better timing and pace, but they both agreed that the effortlessness, 3-D and magic was much more apparent with the USB connection. At the end of the day, my friend sold his Offramp4. So I guess it all boils down to personal taste and is very system dependent. I have no doubt that the Offramp4 sounds superior in your system, but just want to let folks know that the USB can sound very good too.

Great work Lampizator Team, sounds like you guys made a solid first impression in Vegas, congratulations. Hopefully you guys can set up shop in Newport Beach and Denver this year!

Just a quick shout out to High Water Sounds. Jeff and company have always managed to amaze me at every show I go to. He is one of the good guys at the show that just loves to share his views and passion about music. Their rooms produce music that just pulls you in emotionally and sound truly effortless with lifelike dynamics. The Cessaro horns are magical, but a pair of their entry level ones cost more than my entire system by a wide margin, so for me it's a pipe dream, maybe in the next life? Probably not...

Clio, I agree the TAD Concert Fidelity room was great. I also like the TAD Zesto room as well. I can't say which was better. As far as Cessaro I liked the room as well. My only complaint is that the music had a foward dynamic presentation on every piece of music I heard. Sometimes I like a relaxed sound as well. It just maybe that we were sitting too close. I have a friend who owns the Edger horn with Compression JBL drivers and he sits 15 feet back.

Knghifi, that all makes sense to me. Isn't your background computers? I think that is what Gary Anderson told me. You need a system thread too so you can show off those TADs....

I decided to stick with the Offramp and just purchased the Dynamo power supply for the Offramp. Perhaps someday I can compare both the Lampi converter and the Offramp. Like to hear both in my system.

I can't comment on the sound but the Lamp transport is a much much simpler setup. All you need is a digital cable between transport and DAC and run Logitech Media Server on ANY computer with horse power. No special drivers, power supplies ...

Now if the Lamp transport buffers data before play, using wireless and generic cables will yield the same performance as wired and audiophile grade cables.

I run a similar setup and prefer Logitech Media Server over eLyrics and JRiver Media Servers.

For home music servers, I would run something similar to Bryston BDP-2 or ethernet.

Clio09,
I'll answer on your system page.
Charles,

I have read up on the Lampizator transport and in the end it is really a converter just like the Offramp I already own. It takes the WAV, AIFF etc files and converts them to Spdif before sending to the Lampi dac.

I decided to stick with the Offramp and just purchased the Dynamo power supply for the Offramp. Perhaps someday I can compare both the Lampi converter and the Offramp. Like to hear both in my system.

I know my Offramp converter/Lampi 4/4 combo is just awesome folks. I am sure the Lampi transport and dac combo is also killer!

For those using the USB input on your Lampi dacs I strongly suggest getting one of these two converters and use the spdif input on your Lampi dac. Just a big jump in sound quality folks.

Gearhead ticking some folks off is he?
Sharp pen and no L4 OR L5 nor L7 does it every time.

Ha, I was discipled by the best!

If a component cannot reproduce full tone, body, harmonics, dynamics and convey music's emotion, it's a failed product.

While I agree with the sentiment Charles, every system I have ever heard (including the turds I have cobbled together) fail miserably. It depends on what part of the "processed" hifi spectrum you live on. You are an audio relativists (at least from the posts I have read), and that is a logical position to take.

I have worked Concert Fidelity rooms for 4 years now and have heard them with the Kaiser Kowero speakers and some others. In my opinion the TAD CR-1 speakers made for the best pairing with their electronics. This CES was my favorite CF set up.

Charles, if you were at RMAF in 2011 we crossed paths back then as I worked that room. Would be interested in your thoughts on the Kaiser's versus TAD.

01-13-14: Audioengr writes:

Metralla - these that you mention are not digital application of tubes. These tubes are all used in the analog output stages.

Thanks for the clarification. I misread the point that was being made.

Regards,

I've attended CES 6 times and on a number of occasions have been in the room with prominent reviewers listening to the same demonstrations. While they smile and nod their heads in approval I sit there and think the sound is dry, highly processed audiophile check list hifi. I'm probably spoiled from years of hearing live jazz in small un -miked venues. If a component cannot reproduce full tone, body, harmonics, dynamics and convey music's emotion, it's a failed product. There were a number of expensive systems at CES that failed in my opinion. Analytical -sterile and devoid of life and emotion.
Charles,

Clio09,
By the way the Concert Fidelity -TAD was once again one the very best just as it was last year at CES. Concert Fidelity is a top tier product, I heard it paired with the Kaiser Kawero at RMAF 2011 and the sound was devine.
Charles,

Gearhead ticking some folks off is he?
Sharp pen and no L4 OR L5 nor L7 does it every time.

Charles, nice meeting you and JWM and thanks for the compliment. I appreciate the time you guys spent in both the Concert Fidelity and Highwater Sound rooms.

Metralla - these that you mention are not digital application of tubes. These tubes are all used in the analog output stages.

I also used to offer a tube output DAC. This is analog, not digital.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

01-12-14: Audioengr writes

Agear - look, there is nothing sinister about my comments of tubes not being the best choice for digital. Any EE worth his salt will agree with this. I have 30 years of salt in my ears.

Obviously they can work. Gordon Rankin, Alex Peychev, Lukasz Fikus, Dan Wright and so on have shown that.

Regards,

Bill, I know many philes would blessed by a system thread from you. I have always appreciated your zeal and passion and the good guidance you have given me over the years. That way, we can bandy around information for the sake of sound and music minus the politicking and conscious and subconscious agendas that so often infest equipment-specifc threads....:)

Even though the lampizator room was very average sound, I was still able to identify some very positive attributes in Dale's speakers. Coherency, effortlessness and the lack mechanical speaker distortions where very easy to identify. I think room challenges, lack of correct amp match didn't help showcase the strengths of this speaker design. After listening to many rooms with small footprint speakers it was evident these where in class of their own.

The Asian audiophile community (particularly audio exotics ) are going crazy over the Cessaro horn speakers although as Miguel alluded to, they can be a challenge to optimize and have their limitations. I am sure Jeffrey had the appropriate music playing for them, and his rooms are ALWAYS an oasis.

Just to prove audiophiles are schizophrenic, here is Miles Astor's list of top rooms at CES: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue71/ces20145.htm

No mention of any of the rooms discussed here. Oh well. Perception is reality in audio. Just keep the self-important and solemn declarations to a minimum. :)

p.s. I did not attend due to my surgical duties.

The Cessaro-Electra Fidelity room impressed me as well. It was one of the very few that had a true live like flesh and blood presence. Only nitpick is it had to be cranked up in volume to achieve this effect. When played at lower volume the tactile prresence was diminished. That said the tonality and naturalness was still among the most convincing I heard.
Clio09 nice meeting you and your have a very good sounding 300b amplifier.
Charles,

My vote goes to Jeffrey at Highwater Sound with Cessaro and Electra Print Audio 300b silver transformers. Best I've heard Cessaro to date. On another note the L7 sounded very effortless and analog like.

Thanks Andrew, ya I was a little too sensitive and your right that I should start my own system thread. I will as soon as I can post my virtual system.

Best room at The Show was Zesto Audio with the Merrill TT. Having George Merrill there himself didn't hurt either. Found him quite entertaining. Like JWM found the Lampizator room average. That said nothing touched the Highwater Sound room at the Venetian. Okay a little biased as they used our 300B's, but I was working the Concert Fidelity room and while the TAD CR-1s were quite good, those Cessaro's are to die for.

I'm sorry to say that the Lampizator room did not have one of the best sounds at the show. It was just average. The speakers were brand new and the room was very small. I however, liked what I saw and after talking with the head man himself ordered one. I hope I will like it as time will tell.

Agear - did you go to THE Show at CES?

Agear - look, there is nothing sinister about my comments of tubes not being the best choice for digital. Any EE worth his salt will agree with this. I have 30 years of salt in my ears.

This is a lot like the habit that many designers have to use HC logic family for digital circuits that must maintain low-jitter. Makes no sense at all, except to those that don't understand the physics.

There also companies that offer tube analog buffer stages that don't understand why these are interesting. They actually do work well in many cases. It has to do with replacing a low-drive strength DAC output buffer with one with high drive strength, better adapted to drive a cable with capacitance. The ideal thing would just have a better output stage in the DAC.

There is a lot of blind leading the blind designers out there. Sometimes bad habits and choices get copied. I've seen it all. Even junior designers from Sony making fundamental errors in high-end CDPs. Modding a LOT of components for over 10 years opened my eyes.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Agear,
Based on my listening the Lampizator 7 is a superb choice. It simply makes music which is much easier said than done. I also heard rooms utilizing the DCS and MSB stacks, I'll gladly take the presentation of the Lamp 7 instead. It justs depends on what truly touches you.
Charles,

From what I heard, several reviewers and audio dealers loved what they heard and had it as one of the top rooms at the Show.

At least 3 review request were made.

The Lampizator transport converts from a computer format such as FLAC or WAV to SPDIF. Here is the Lampizator link that provides a comprehensive explanation. I have had one for about 2 1/2 years and I think it is amazing. However, it doesn't cover all high-resolution music. It only goes up to 24/88 as it is based upon the Squeezebox Duet.

http://lampizator.eu/szop/szopproducts/LZ-TRANSPORT/Lampizator%20transport.html

There is also a USB Transport.

http://lampizator.eu/shop/viewitem.php?productid=145

Thanks,
Jim

Bill,
The sound was good but I don't think I heard the Lampizator at its best. The speaker was very new (Dale Pitcher was still working on it the day before).
The room was relatively small (unlike the rooms at the Venetian hotel, beautiful) and the speaker close to the wall behind it. My gut tells me the Lampizator will really sing in an optimized room/system.
I heard the Lampizator 7 in the Fritz speaker's larger space (speakers out in the open) . I think that ideally the Pitcher speaker just needed more room to breathe and burn in time.
Charles,

Looks like it connects to a computer.....love to hear some comments about it. Sounds like the Lampi room sounded great with Dale's speakers and the TRL Dude preamp. I wish I could have been there. I have only been to one audio show and that was some 20 years ago in NYC!

Can someone explain just what the Lampi transport is? No need for a computer? Thanks much.

Charles, I had met him a few months ago and those were my same impressions of Lukasz...add to your list his 'humble' persona and sprinkle it with both audio engineering brilliance and an [obviously] discerning ear... and I agree with your prediction.
My "trail" of Lampi equipment first from an L4G4 Dac to my current Big 6 Dac and the Lampizator TranspOrt has me listening to the best digital sound I have ever heard. YM WON'T vary. It's refreshing to see how the combination of serious talent and hard work, works.
Let me add a big thanks to Fred and Rob too for their help in "Getting it done".

Yes Charles,

Lukasz is a great guy. I finally met him in person a month ago and it was a definite thrill.

It was a true pleasure meeting Lukasz Fikus. I had a long and very interesting conversation with him. He's quite engaging, very smart and candid. I believe that he will enjoy much success in the fickle high end market.
Charles,

Well, team Lampizator had a very successful CES. One industry guy with golden ears said the L7 was the closest thing he has heard to vinyl in a digital form, and the Audionote dealer from California said it was some of the best sound at the show. Everyone has their biases, but it is good feedback nonetheless. My tentative plan is still to get a L7 and USB transport.

Mitch , you can try one and send it back if you are not thrilled. You will like it!

Bill, my sweet spot so far is my mini source (Pure Music) through a Wireworld Starlight USB cable into the iPurifier into the iUSB (unconnected to power) into a Gemini twin cable with only the "signal" side connected and then directly into the onboard USB input of the hex.

The sound is punchy and full of color and body while, in comparison, through the iLink, the sound loses body and becomes somewhat thin sounding with an uncharacteristic absence of the fill-in sounds between performers. I would love to hear an Offramp to satisfy my curiosity as to whether any benefit can be had by using a USB converter over the on board USB input in the Hex.

Mitch2 thanks as that tells me a lot.

Is your "start another thread" on EA comment a put-down? Why? Why the anger? Are you telling what I can and cannot ask on this thread. Why go sophomoric on me and us here Agear?

I am sorry if I angered you with that suggestion Bill. It was a joke or allusion to EA's online propensities including putting down Lampi design principles. Its stealth advertising and business, and there's nothing intrinsically wrong with it.

Actually, what you really need is a system thread!

I looked up the iFi iLink and if this $250 converter is better than the Offramp, then every Aphile should have one and now!

I can't say whether the iLink is better than the Offramp, but it is definitely not better than the USB input in my Metrum Hex, especially when run through the iUSB power first, outputting signal only.

Hi Gopher (Fred) it was a pleasure to meet you in the Lampizator room this week, your hospitality was appreciated. My friend Jwm (Jeff) is really looking forward to the Lampizator 5 DAC he ordered with your help.
Regards,
Charles,

The Offramp helped me get the most out of my Lampi. It has done the same for many with a multitude of computers. All different brands etc....

I looked up the iFi iLink and if this $250 converter is better than the Offramp, then every Aphile should have one and now! It would be the biggest value in digital audio my a country mile......if true.

Wisnon I mean. I am sure you are full of wisdom however!

Wisdom, great interview and I love the way Lucas tests and listens....love it!
I love his dac and thus this thread. I am always open to the best stuff out there including the Offramp!

Agear, never said my dac is deficient. I said the USB input does not sound nearly as good direct from a computer vs the Offramp.

Is your "start another thread" on EA comment a put-down? Why? Why the anger? Are you telling what I can and cannot ask on this thread. Why go sophomoric on me and us here Agear?

Anyway, just learning and experimenting and asking questions. Let's keep it friendly.

Excerpt from monoandstereo.com interview:

Why tubes in the audio path?


I have no particular attachment to tubes. If the parrot guano gave better results in signal amplification, or transistors - I would use them. Tubes sound good not because they are made of glass, or because they have vacuum inside, but because I can get away with simple amplifier stage without local or global feedback and without high part count. The tube circuit can be as simple as humanly possible - in my case the stage has just one resistor, one triode and one capacitor. Thats why I love tubes. Listening confirms that the signal is pure, uncorrupted, and the musical content comes through, shining in full musical glory.

What would you say, that Lampizator- Lukasz Fikus is doing different and specific to other DAC’s?


Mainly I am very open to listening test and comparisons. I don’t follow so called datasheet and white paper specs - I use the chips the way I want and I make the chips sound the way I want, even if the approach is far from textbook or dogmatic respect for manufacturer’s suggestions. I realized that chips for DAC are not digital devices (like in computers) but they are analog devices, responding really strongly to strange manipulations like power supply filtering, capacitor quality, connection topology, clock frequencies, materials used for wiring and soldering, vibrations, magnetic fields, grounding schemes and so on. Making a chip sound in a specific way is like building violins. Yamaha can’t duplicate what Stradivari did, it is a secret of the trade. It is like cooking, or gardening, or animal training. It is not about zeroes and ones.

Anything special about topology?


There is nothing special really. Anyone can make a circuit equally good just after 2-3 years of every day testing and trying. What is special is my absolutely fanatical approach to testing by ears in thousands of hours of nightime listening. I use circuits insanely simple, if you remove one more part - everything will collapse. So I am testing the absolute limits of simplicity that I can get away with as an engineer. I remove and remove and remove until I can’t remove anything else and then I make the circuit sound best under these circumstances. In sound quality less is more, because the signal gets less chances to be distorted and loosing the natural beauty of the music.


What does state of the art digital audio and ultra high-end means for you?


As a “reverse engineer” person I want to see the concept behind it, the simple genius design that can be read like an open book, and if it takes a lot of money to realize - it is a no compromise high end to me. Any educated idiot can make a very sophisticated , over-engineered product and pack it with premium parts and market as high end. Only real genius can make it simple, beautiful and sounding right. Very very few engineers can do this. Kondo was the first one, the Pope of high end, and frankly nothing much after Kondo made any progress or breakthrough. To make best amps, best DAC, best cables and best cartridge in one lifetime is a truly buddhist achievement. And he was not an electronic engineer, not even an electrician, just an open, renaissance man with huge passion.

What are your views on balanced topology? Is it a must for best sound in audiophile branded products?


Balanced operation has many many crazy misunderstandings and myths. It is merely a simple way of achieving something, at the cost of something else. It has no correlation with sound quality. It can be compared to 4x4 car design, which achieves good tracking at the cost of price, noise, fuel efficiency, reliability and turning radius. It is a tradeoff like anything else. Having said that, most good gear out there is SE and that’s my personal preference. It makes sense for some products like phono stages and DACs but only in the context of really fully balanced rest of the system and at the cost of almost doubled manufacturing cost.

What sets Lampizator audio design above other manufacturers?


It is the end result - the sound at the price. I design my product to be as timeless as possible - a huge engineering and component value that will stand the test of time not in 2 years like modern electronics but in 10, 20 and 30 years from now.

Do you use pure class A in your signal chain and outputs?


Yes, always.

What is your approach to power supply and how important it is in your opinion?


Power supply is everything. Remove the power supply importance and my DAC is like any other 200 dollar DAC from China. Power supply to the tube anodes, tube heaters, and 9 other digital supply points, sets the LampizatOr DAC aside form the crowd and makes it sound as heavenly as it does.

Separated power supply is highly regarded with audiophiles. What are your views on benefits with outboard power solutions and two box design?


I don’t follow that path because I really know whats going on, I don’t just speculate that removing PSU from the “consumer” should “bring some benefits”. The separation is a huge tradeoff and the result is a proof - closely built supply delivers faster, better and cleaner. There is no mythical “interference” because I measure it that it isn’t there. I will take a one box for a two box any time. I sell DAC Level 5 which is a two box only because of lack of physical space in one box.

The Offramp makes the USB input on my Lampizator 4/4 dac sound almost broken.

you mean the jittery garbage output of the mini?

Bill, knowing what you know about the Lampi, do you think the USB transport would be bad?

Its beyond me why anyone would put tubes in totally digital equipment, even just for power regulation. Nothing about tubes is interesting for digital. If you want it to perform like something from 1950, this would be the way.

Lucas is every bit as much of an engineer as you are Steve. People make choices, and audio, being like a form of alchemy, hybridizes science and art with the nod going to the art (sound) at the end of the day.

Bill, you should try the Ifi product line for USB inputs. Cheap and better "advertised" jitter reduction than an offramp. I also suggest you start another thread on Empirical audio. What you have discovered is what I have harping about for some time: your dac is not deficient. Your bastardized computer "transport" is. The Offramp exposed that. Interestingly, quite a few Aussie philes have traded in their Offramps for highly modded Wadias (http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1327217166&openflup&115&4#115)

Audiophiles are like cats. Everyone on his own idiosyncratic and highly independent journey.

He spelled out his philosophy on why he used tubes in the www.monoandstereo.com interview.
Check kt out.

Agreed Steve

I makes sense to put a tube analog output on a DAC, but even then the power supply must be really good and the tubes really good. The best preamp-type tubes are rare and expensive and mostly NOS. Even these are hard-pressed to deliver tight bass like good SS can. Been there, done that.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio