New Lampizator Level 4/ Version 4 DAC in the house

Anybody here running the Level 5? If you have compared it to Level 4, in what ways does the 5 improve on the 4? Thanks.

Digital is the equivalent of my third string QB.

I have been playing with digital for a few months and am using a dedicated 2012 MacMini with SSD, ifi power with split (power/signal) USB cable, Metrum HEX, and Pure Music player with NOS upsampling to 88.2 and Less is More. I use XLD to rip CDs directly to AIFF. The HEX runs balanced to my SMc preamp, then Clayton amps and Aerial speakers. Cable runs are short.

After two months of getting the computer set-up to sound as good as it can with that gear, I put my MUSE Erato II player back in the rack and IMO, while both sound good, the MUSE improves on the computer set-up by providing greater depth, mid-bass/midrange warmth, better decay, and a slightly more rounded presentation that makes me enjoy listening more. The computer set-up is equal to a touch better in clarity, deep bass, and detail, and while it sounds quite musical and achieves most or all of the desired audiophile type attributes, it simply does not create the same level of musical connection for me as the player.

Since the HEX has already been very positively reviewed by some pretty experienced folks and is said to be one of the better DACs at providing an organic (non-analytical) presentation, I am not sure whether a different DAC, such as the Lampizator, is the answer or if the computer thing is simply not quite at the level of a top disc player. I would also look to the player but I settled on Pure Music as the most musical of the big three after expiring the trial subscriptions to all three. This result is a little frustrating since I was hoping to equal or improve on the player, for the investment. Even the convenience is a wash given the idiosyncrasies of the computer audio players and the ease of using a remote with the player.

Are you Lampizator owners truly getting sound to rival your best players and even vinyl?

Well Vortrex just posted this at AudioCircle

Wisnon,
Yeah I noticed that post by Vortex and then I also noticed he promptly put his Lampizator up for sale...after only owning it two weeks? There is also another Lampizator 4/4 currently for sale where the seller is using close to the exact same language as the previous seller used in July (including the reason for selling). The unit was reportedly made in May of this year so, it is being sold for the second time after only 4 months. There is a third unit for sale at AAsylum with the serial number one after the unit made in May, a fourth unit that was just listed at the end of August with an even higher serial number (that has sold), and a fifth unit listed a couple of weeks ago that appears to have sold. All of these Lampizator's changing hands after being owned for only a short time may mean something, or nothing, but it does give me pause before thinking about a $3-4K expenditure. I sure would like to hear one in my system.

Glory,
My MUSE Erato II was my only source prior to computer audio. I stupidly sold my Thorens TD-166 MkII (that I had owned since college) at a garage sale when I decided to permanently switch to "perfect sound forever."

I suggest you listen for yourself and make up your own mind.

Great advice....In USA, where? how? Is there an importer with a demo unit, or is it strictly buy to try?

Hi Gopher,
Ok, I get it - sounds like a lot of happy Lampizator customers out there. Lukasz is fortunate that sales of the Level 4 and positive reviews on these forums have helped folks become aware of his DACs. I have done about as much reading about Lampizator as I can, and now need to decide whether to give one a try, or not.

The HEX I am using is an excellent sounding and well reviewed DAC, and for many would be an end game piece. It is very neutral, sounding neither lean or fat, and still manages to accomplish excellent bass extension and drive, as well as an organic/realistic presentation. It does absolutely nothing wrong. It is just that my personal listening preferences lean toward a touch more midrange/midbass warmth. The only two DACs I have read about that may provide those characteristics, without significantly losing out in other areas, are the Lampizator and the CAD 1543, which is almost unknown over here in the USA. Because of availability issues and the relatively high pricing of the CAD, it is likely I will try a Lampizator first.

Which rectifier tube is most desirable in a new L4G4, 6X5 or 5Y3?

Schw06, your system page prominently displays the Abbingdon Music Research DP-777. Is the Lampi 4 a relatively new addition? What do you like about it compared to the AMR?

Abruce,
I am not sure of the age or current accuracy of this paper but here is a link that explains some of it;
Level 5 guided tour by Lukasz Fikas
It appears there is significantly more work done to the power supply (which is dual mono in the L5) and a different PCB using different chips. From what I have read, it seems the power supply work accounts for the majority of the sonic improvements. If you go to the dual chassis you can include more features such as balanced operation and his special volume control, although those options do not interest me at this time.
I was hoping some here might elaborate with regards to sonic differences.

L4 has potential but didn't like the stock tubes. It was too agressive and 2D.

I hope this is not true since I have one on the way. What you describe is not what I have read described by reviewers, and is definitely not the sound I am expecting. Are most of you current owners rolling tubes to get the best from your L4G4s?

Bill,
I thought hard about going with a Level 5 because of the dual mono power supply but since the PS on Level 4 seems to be overbuilt as it is,

we build a tubed power supply which is at least 400% oversized to provide the unheard of purity, authority and grunt.

and considering the DAC market is not yet mature, I decided to opt for the less expensive L4G4, which seems to be a fully evolved design for Lukasz. Once that was decided, I didn't see a need to change much else. My specs included;
1. Whatever rectifier Lukasz has found to be the best, in his opinion.
2. Additional USB input.
3. Change S/PDIF input from an RCA to a BNC type.
4. Duelund capacitors.
5. Black faceplate.

I decided it was not necessary to go with a balanced DAC. My preamp treats unbalanced and balanced input signals the same and then the signal is converted to balanced as it outputs through transformers.
I know you like the Jensens but I found the temptation to go with the Duelunds too great to pass up.
I will not know my rectifier options until I learn which tube Lukasz uses in my L4.
I am curious whether folks are rolling signal tubes in the L4. It is hard to find information on what is used and I couldn't find much on the Lampi site, but I understand he may be currently using NOS E182CC tubes, which are the same as CV5766, and perhaps 6N6P. I understand he previously may have used ECC40 tubes?

You may want to do a little research.
It seems the 6H6p is the same/equivalent tube as a 6N6p.
From thetubestore dot com;

The 6N6p tube is a Russian dual triode tube. This tube is often seen as 6N6p, 6N6PI, 6N6pi, 6H6p, 6N6p-i, 6N6n-i ,or 6H6n-i. The Chinese name for the 6H6p tube is 6N6 tube. The 6N6p is a fantastic tube for preamps and driver stages, and is even used as output tubes in the Little Dot MkIII headphone amp. It has been used by the tube DIY underground for many years and is now becoming better known in the mainstream.

From the Lampizator website;

First some facts: 6H6(Pi) is written in CYRYLLIC alphabet. That's why sometimes you can find the same tube written in latin which spells 6N6P.
To my knowledge this tube has been produced only in Soviet Union (the oldest sample I found was from 1974, the newest from 89.)
It is a genuine Soviet design, unlike most of their tubes which they copied from the West all the time. The closest equivalent is the Ecc182, E182CC although the pinout is different, .
We do not want to use the impulse variant 6N6P-i later named 6N30P. We want the good old 6N6P only.

And a link;
http://www.lampizator.eu/UPGRADE/upgrade%20noval%20tubes%20to%206H6P.html

Try running just the data leg of a Gemini dual USB cable, or another USB that runs data only, into your ifi; leave the power unplugged from the ifi and then run the Wywires to your Lampizator as usual. The Lampizator works fine without any USB power. I did make a very short data only USB cable but it didn't sound as good as the Gemini with only the data leg connected.

G'ring, it is the ifi USB Power.
My mistake, I misread your previous post where you said you had the

Ultra Fi USB filter

and I thought you had one of these;
http://www.ifi-audio.com/en/iUSB.html

Agear, that was going to be my question as to the dependency on which player is being used and whether a difference is heard between AIFF and WAV.
I think I am in a minority here with my impressions from last summer and choosing Pure Music as the player I found to sound more musical and display more body, if perhaps a slightly "softer" focus. I wonder if there is a time limit before one can try another free trial of A+ and/or Amara after already trying the trial version once? I would like to get a few more things tweeked and then try them again.
Bill, your thoughts on WAV have me curious enough that I plan to take three CDs I am familiar with, rip them in WAV and then compare directly with the same CDs that I already have ripped in AIFF, maybe not today though.
Steve, I was encouraged to hear that improvements can be had by installing the $4K or $6K Plasmatron. I will add that to my to-do list! Oh well, pushing the envelope is a good thing, even if that particular improvement is well outside of my current envelope.

I looked up the iFi iLink and if this $250 converter is better than the Offramp, then every Aphile should have one and now!

I can't say whether the iLink is better than the Offramp, but it is definitely not better than the USB input in my Metrum Hex, especially when run through the iUSB power first, outputting signal only.

Bill, my sweet spot so far is my mini source (Pure Music) through a Wireworld Starlight USB cable into the iPurifier into the iUSB (unconnected to power) into a Gemini twin cable with only the "signal" side connected and then directly into the onboard USB input of the hex.

The sound is punchy and full of color and body while, in comparison, through the iLink, the sound loses body and becomes somewhat thin sounding with an uncharacteristic absence of the fill-in sounds between performers. I would love to hear an Offramp to satisfy my curiosity as to whether any benefit can be had by using a USB converter over the on board USB input in the Hex.

The new Jupiter copper caps are out

Hi Bill, did you order these directly from Chris at Jupiter? I do not see them yet on the website but I was hoping to obtain some in time to use on a current project.

Thanks for the links.
I would be interested in discussing but do not want to sidetrack this Lampizator thread.

If you use a non-audiophile grade transport (a.k.a. computer), then something like an offramp is prudent. Another affordable option is the l-fi product's from AMR.

Huh? Is a computer not simply another method of processing a digital signal, not unlike a CD/DVD disc player, or any number of transports available. What distinguishes an "audiophile grade transport" from a computer or another type of "non-audiophile grade transport?" Is it the case, the brand name, the price, the market audience? Who is the judge that decides whether certain gear is "audiophile grade," or not?

Some transports are going to sound better, based on design and implementation but at what point do they cross the threshold and become "audiophile grade?" My SS drive Mac mini always sounded good but, adding the Mojo Audio filter, linear PS, outboard AV drive, and cables took the performance to a level beyond my $7K disc player, IMO. Does this still fall short of being "audiophile grade?"