What it does to Redbook negates any need for hi Rez offerings and People who have one say they dont care about HiRez anymore as its sounds so good on RBCD That is "la raison d'être" for any digital transport IMO. 99% of most music libraries are Redbook. Yes, I am sure "true" DSD128 mastering is better, but after a while that same avant-garde Swedish jazz trio gets old. Regarding DSD and hi rez wireless streaming, I believe that is not far off. We can already stream movies wirelessly, and those files are larger than any audio data (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/537-extending-audio-network-using-802-11ac-wireless/) Furthermore, people are already hacking squeezeboxes and such to process DSD (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=119364.0) Gopher and Berto are morally obligated to do a Lampi transport versus modded mini shootout during the upcoming rave. It will drive home the point that I have been trying to make since 2007. |
As long as the modded Mini has a Mojo or Hynes power supply! If not, don't bother doing an AB. |
Bill, amongst mini-heads, people argue about whether they even make a difference. One camp says an external supply on an 09 is the way (Empirical Audio). Others say a 2011 or newer mini with no supply is comparable (Tranquility sac). Both camps are headed by engineers who know more than we do and provide convincing arguments for each position.
So....in other words, an external supply is not relevant. Gary Glory Anderson has relevant experience with and without an external supply.
Someone needs to send Granny a transport. Gopher??? |
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I'm with Mitch would like to know more about how much better and differences between the 4 and 5 |
Schw06, your system page prominently displays the Abbingdon Music Research DP-777. Is the Lampi 4 a relatively new addition? What do you like about it compared to the AMR? |
MM is better!! read ze question. with or without ps? Also, you went from "Redbook being better than or equivalent to hi rez" to "I can only listen do DSD" minus the transport. Very telling. Abruce and Mitch, the primary difference (from what I have been told) is the dual mono ps in the 5. Better separation, etc, etc. |
Abruce, I am not sure of the age or current accuracy of this paper but here is a link that explains some of it; Level 5 guided tour by Lukasz FikasIt appears there is significantly more work done to the power supply (which is dual mono in the L5) and a different PCB using different chips. From what I have read, it seems the power supply work accounts for the majority of the sonic improvements. If you go to the dual chassis you can include more features such as balanced operation and his special volume control, although those options do not interest me at this time. I was hoping some here might elaborate with regards to sonic differences. |
The power supply was a huge improvement on my 2009 Mini. I would say a 25-30% improvement. Steve at Empirical says a stock 2009 mini sounds better than a stock 2011 Mini. So this means my set up is perhaps 30 plus percent better than a 2011 Mini without an upgraded power supply.
Oh well. Must try both to really know! |
Hi Bruce and Tim. The 4 is all one would really ever need. I say get a 4 and be sure to get the top of the line Jensen caps and the Bendix rectification tube. This and the right footers, power cord and AC conditioning will make more of a difference IMHO. |
So is the TranspOrt worth buying or should I just stick with a PC or MM solution with my Level 5?
I'm very undecided on this. I've heard the TranspOrt with a Level 3.5 it sounded very fine. But I've never heard USB via Zuma PC, laptop, or MM?
I'm not a big Squeezebox fan.
My experiences with streaming audio has been PS Audio PWD II and Bridge via laptop connected with CAT 7 Ethernet to my WHS. The PWD is good but not a Lampizator. |
Talk to Rob Reich Sgr. He had a modded mini and now has a transport. No contest according to him. |
Glory,
How about we both send our servers to Fred to end the debate once and for all during the Lamp Rave?
My PC server, your glorified MM, and Fred's Transport doing battle would be cool and helpful for all those interested. |
Shawbros3, that's a grand idea. Enough audio blah blah.
For what it's worth, I will be using both a transport and a mini with my L5. A transport for redbook and a mini for hi rez/DSD (out of necessity). I will be looking at a dbsystems mini which is the only one I see out there that is modded internally with mu metal shielding, caps, etc. option 2 would be to use the Ifi stuff. |
I have both MM '09 with LPS and new MM stock. The new MM to me is bettered so I think. Had the LT and it was great on RB but did not meet my needs for all material. Gave it away for $1.3K.
We all hear/see/feel and think different so a shoot maybe useless.
Had the L3/4/5 and the 5 is better than the 4 but by how much? Could I pick out the 4 from the 5 in my system? What if the 4 had a Stage 3 AC cable on it and the 5 had a cheap A$$ ,name your own maker, AC cable like most have will the 4 sound better? 5 has a bigger fuller sound but the 4 is better than most high $$$ dacs being sold today .
The game gets to complex to hear a 3% improvement that just might be a different sound than an improvement.
This hobby is like a man getting most all the chicks he can want. In the end he doesn't want to live with them long term so he unloads and reloads.
The L5 has bigger breasts but they hang and sag where the L4 has smaller athletic breasts made for road running. What level do you want?? |
Agear,
How do I get hold of Rob Reich?
Thanks,
Steven |
Hey Glory,
Good points!
Shootouts are entertaining and in some cases informative but as you say different ears will result in different outcomes, how else could it be? When all is said and done it always about what we like as opposed to some absolute conclusion that settles a matter for once and all.
Regarding the breast analogy, if that's accurate I'll take the Lamp 4. Give me the fit and toned version any and every time. You'd think the Lamp 5 having the dual power supply would seem to be an obvious advantage given the major contributions the PS provides. |
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Nearly every aspect of audio is a matter of tradeoffs and trying to achieve some sense of proper balance, power supplies are part of this equation. |
The L5 has bigger breasts but they hang and sag where the L4 has smaller athletic breasts made for road running. What level do you want?? I could modify either.... |
With audio sound as well as women, I prefer natural to artificial if given the choice. |
"
The L5 has bigger breasts but they hang and sag where the L4 has smaller athletic breasts made for road running. What level do you want??
I could modify either...."
Doc,
Now that is funny!! |
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Gary, I knew you would appreciate that....yuk, yuk... With audio sound as well as women, I prefer natural to artificial if given the choice. Common male misperception. Its not your "choice" at all. So Charles, if the choice were truly yours, you would go with a national geographic aesthetic? |
It's my choice certainly in regards to what I find appealing, we're talking cosmetics aren't we. In the context of Glory's analogy it's absolutely appropriate. No National Geographic, just nice, fit and athletic. |
It's my choice certainly in regards to what I find appealing, we're talking cosmetics aren't we. Are we still talking boobs here (shame on you Glory)? If we are, a pornographic aesthetic references an object whereas a true aesthetic encompasses the subject and is therefore relational. Regarding the Lampizator, its pretty clear where Lucas falls on this subject: http://www.stereomojo.com/Lampizator%20Level%204%20DAC%20Review.htm/LampizatorLevel4DAC.htm This piece of advertising may well have subconsciously influenced Glory and his choice of analogies. Yuk, yuk, yuk.... |
LoL
That is JAMES, not Lukasz who affixes the eye-candy! |
There is DSD and then there is Lampi DSD:
http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2013/09/29/dsd-lampizator/ |
My L4G4 was switched from solid state rectification to tube rectified. Since the unit was converted, the label on the back does not say what the tube type is... The tube in the unit is printed "6U5C". From what I can find this is equivalent to 6X5GT. Lukasz said it is a very good tube but I am hunting a tube issue in my system and before I re-tube the amp, I need to rule this out. AND get the upgrade in sound mentioned with a Bendix 6x5! The 5852 correct?
Whats the link to a good source for this tube ya'll are raving about?
Dying to get this system straight that I have been without for months! |
Has anyone tried the Tun-sol 6x5? Most of this lamp crowd might favor the the Bendix but wondering how the -possibly less aggressive- Tung-Sol sounds as well... |
Ask Gopher about the Tungstol.
Try John @ USA Tubes for tube supplies... |
Jriggy
How do you like the tube vs SS rectification |
Yup, Haven't tried the Bendix but really like the Tung Sols in my Big 6. |
Which rectifier tube is most desirable in a new L4G4, 6X5 or 5Y3? |
6x5 is technically better, but 5Y3 has more rolling options. |
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Both are glorious in this dac. Can't go wrong with either. |
JRiggy,
I just ordered the Tungsol and will be able to tell you my impressions in a week or so. A pal with stock 6x5 rectifier and ECC182 output tubes did tell me this though:
"Bendix 6900(pair) is here. Initial impression is that it sounds absolutely awesome. Fast, but not overly aggressive, top end has more sparkle but not bright, midrange is stunning. I thought it would be cold, but actually it is warmer than the 7119. Soundstage is even more layered and 3D. Great match with the Bendix 5852 recti. No buyers remorse here!"
and
"Last I heard, the Tungsrams were only a subtle but good change over the Phillips/Mullard/Siemens, etc ECC40s. Tungsrams are shorter and probably more robust.
Originally I had the Soviet 6U5C for recti, Sylvania vintage was good - fuller sound, Tung Sol 6x5 built on that with a warmer punch, Bendix 5852 now in which is more linear than all, detailed, transparent, full, but colder than the Tung Sol. With the 6900 in, it compensates now for that lack of warmth in the recti and just sounds great." |
Bendix 6900 tube sucks. Don 't buy it. To much $$$ for what you get!!! |
Wisnon, Are you using 6900s as output tubes in the Lamp? If so, which model? I have the G4L4 with ecc40 and solid state recification. |
Interesting Norman. Thanks for sharing. I may have to try both then...
My Lamp has ecc40's. Not many replacements for them. |
Abruce,
Tubed VS solid state is just as one would think... The SS rectified was faster and punchier, with tighter bass but still with a good 'floating in space' effect... The tube rectified has a touch more analog feel to it and a deeper soundstage.
That is all I could say at this point, as I have had very little listening to this L4G4 yet. But with that said, my findings match everyone else's in the thread. Glad I have one!
And Lukasz seems to be a very hard worker, cranking these babies out and making sure everyone is happy!
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The 6900s are very expensive. I see 4 on EBay with the bid starting at $1K!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Matched-Quad-Bendix-MU-6900s-the-Holy-Grail-of-Audio-Tubes-/261306304173?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3cd711c6ad
So no less than $500 a pair! Glory could be right about price to performance ratio.
There is ONE good roll for the ECC40 and its the Tungsram brand! Its shorter, more robust and allegedly has an even clearer midrange! All the other brands of Ecc40s are identical and made by Phillips despite the branding. A Spanish guy has a pair on ebay for about $25 a pair plus shipping. I scooped up the Eastern European ones a day or 2 ago, so be on the llokout for them.
Unlike what Glory says, i think the ECC40s are GREAT sounding, but the Phillips ones are not so robust as they are hit and miss with durability! For the money, they have the best performance and the Tungsram version is the way to go, apparently.
Glory, link me up by email for some scoop! |
I am sure the 40 is a good sounding tube but it's no 6900! With the 182/EF 800 you can do left/right brain with the Tele/Amperex tubes. |
The 6900 is uber expensive costing 20x more than a nice Tungsram 40. So yeah, I have no doubts it SHOULD be better! |
rave report please. AC is down, and there are some vagaries on Nervosa.... |
Agear,
As a host of the event I had limited listening session with the DAC's (the night before) and what I heard I enjoyed it very much. On Saturday I got maybe 5 minutes all day to sit down and listen to the GM70, transport and DAC. The one thing that I would have to say is the synergy between my speakers and Lamp was not optimal (the basement setup) and we swapped a lot of equipment around which kind of made it difficult to judge the setup. I would say the high light for me was the DSD dac. Next time I will have to spend more time with the setup and take corrective action before everyone starts arriving. |
The meet was a really fun event, but I think the sound in the main room (basement) was good not great. The Zu Omen Defs we used weren't playing well for some reason and we had some excessive brightness. Still sounded good though.
We swapped out the speakers and eventually put in Taras amp with the Big Six and got great sound down there, but they were 4ohm speakers and the GM70 didn't like that.
Overall the sound was good to very good, but we didn't get into the realm of excellence which I know for a fact its capable of.
Speaking with Lukasz last night the gear made a second showing into an Audio club meeting in New Jersey on Sunday where the DAC alone was inserted into an already optimized/synergized rig where no one had even heard of LampizatOr and the feedback was outstanding. I've been trying to find discussion of that meeting... |
Speakers and dac synergy? Help me understand? Did you also use the dac as a preamp?
Just tell us how it compared to the other dac in your system please. I assume you listen to music on that system regularly. |
