SGR,
I will do an article on this at PTAudiophile soon to sort out the confusion.
1)Correct. Some people prefer the big box rather than 2 separate smaller boxes and other prefer the inverse.
2)Plain vanilla DSD ( what is used as the format on SACDs is DSD64...ie ibit 2.8mhz). DSD128 is double rate DSD, ie double data rate 5.6mhz. Twice the size and a bit better SQ, probably due to the fact that the ultrasonic noise is pushed even further away from the audible frequencies.
3) ECC40 has great SQ, but is less robust that 182. I dont know the characteristics of all, but a buddy just switched from 40 to 182 and prefers the latter. 182 is more robust as well, but also more expensive.
4)I agree here.
5) He uses either 6x5 or 5Y3 rectifier tubes. Both kinds are supplied stock. I think there is more tube rolling possibilities with the 5Y and consequently more upside from tweaking. I have the 6x5 and am happy enough. I did find a few at Ebay to try rolling with. |
SGR, some DSD Dacs can only do DSD64 ...at least for the moment. Chord Qute is an example.
There is a LOT more DSD64 material out there than DSD12, bt there are a few albums out there you can buy online and some people are ripping their vinyl collections to DSD128!!!!!! |
The Sonore Rendu is on my list of things to buy. I am quite impressed with Sonore and the development of their products.
Won't splurge on a Lampi though. Can't justify that spend on digital no matter how good it is. I am an analog guy. Digital is the equivalent of my third string QB.
I must say though this computer audio has been kind of interesting to me of late. |
Agear, further to that point. LF has made arrangements that if anything untowards were to happen, all the schematics would be released to the public. Being a point to point wiring hand built item, any competent tech would be able to repair the unit.
Besides, even if he were not around, the company would survive. |
Digital is the equivalent of my third string QB. I have been playing with digital for a few months and am using a dedicated 2012 MacMini with SSD, ifi power with split (power/signal) USB cable, Metrum HEX, and Pure Music player with NOS upsampling to 88.2 and Less is More. I use XLD to rip CDs directly to AIFF. The HEX runs balanced to my SMc preamp, then Clayton amps and Aerial speakers. Cable runs are short. After two months of getting the computer set-up to sound as good as it can with that gear, I put my MUSE Erato II player back in the rack and IMO, while both sound good, the MUSE improves on the computer set-up by providing greater depth, mid-bass/midrange warmth, better decay, and a slightly more rounded presentation that makes me enjoy listening more. The computer set-up is equal to a touch better in clarity, deep bass, and detail, and while it sounds quite musical and achieves most or all of the desired audiophile type attributes, it simply does not create the same level of musical connection for me as the player. Since the HEX has already been very positively reviewed by some pretty experienced folks and is said to be one of the better DACs at providing an organic (non-analytical) presentation, I am not sure whether a different DAC, such as the Lampizator, is the answer or if the computer thing is simply not quite at the level of a top disc player. I would also look to the player but I settled on Pure Music as the most musical of the big three after expiring the trial subscriptions to all three. This result is a little frustrating since I was hoping to equal or improve on the player, for the investment. Even the convenience is a wash given the idiosyncrasies of the computer audio players and the ease of using a remote with the player. Are you Lampizator owners truly getting sound to rival your best players and even vinyl? |
Well Vortrex just posted this at AudioCircle and he seems to be an analog guy like you:
"I got one of the G4 L4 units 2 weeks ago with the Jensen caps, which is still breaking in. It's technically a Level 4.5 as they call it, since it has the Level 5 PCB inside my unit. I'll preface this and say I am not a digital guy. The digital I have heard prior (audio show) has not been my cup of tea. I really like an organic 3D flavor, which digital has not shown me before.
Not having the right pieces to set up this DAC properly, I used the USB cable from my printer and connected it to a Macbook Pro running a trial version of Audirvana Plus. I then got a couple of hi-rez FLAC albums that I am very familiar with on vinyl. I was quite surprised to hear how well this DAC stood up against my vinyl rig (TW Acustic Raven, Ortofon RS-309D, Ortofon Synergy SPU, Leben RS-30EQ, Hashimoto HM7 SUT)! Clearly the DAC was producing a more solid foundation. What I was not expecting is for the digital to have dimension to it. Digital to me always spelled soulless and uninteresting. I won't say it had the depth of the analog rig, but the width was there. Images hover in space. There's a different presentation overall, I would say the DAC is bolder. If you are looking for a way out of analog, this could be your exit point. Looking back to all the previous vinyl rigs I have had in the past, I would choose this DAC over them. I think the analog setup I have now is the tipping point. Maybe the Big Six would close the gap even more or cross it?
I'll also say I was expecting something that was kind of DIY-like. That is not the case at all. It might have a utilitarian look to it, but the DAC is very well built and solid. It's better than some "Made in the USA" gear I have had before. The packaging was also first rate and it arrived only 1 HOUR different from the time Lukasz quoted me at shipment. Great service for sure." |
"Are you Lampizator owners truly getting sound to rival your best players and even vinyl?"
M2,
Yes. Your Dac is not a Lamp so I am sure you would find a whole new world in the L4/5 as I know I did. 2x DSD is a real pleasure to listen to.
What TT do you have? |
I have the top of the line Jensen PIO , copper foil, paper cased caps in mine. The Duelund caps are more resolving for sure and the Jensen caps are a tad richer in the mids,
I will put Duelund in mine once I get the funds as they are quite expensive. |
Vortrex is selling his Dac LOL |
Well Vortrex just posted this at AudioCircle Wisnon, Yeah I noticed that post by Vortex and then I also noticed he promptly put his Lampizator up for sale...after only owning it two weeks? There is also another Lampizator 4/4 currently for sale where the seller is using close to the exact same language as the previous seller used in July (including the reason for selling). The unit was reportedly made in May of this year so, it is being sold for the second time after only 4 months. There is a third unit for sale at AAsylum with the serial number one after the unit made in May, a fourth unit that was just listed at the end of August with an even higher serial number (that has sold), and a fifth unit listed a couple of weeks ago that appears to have sold. All of these Lampizator's changing hands after being owned for only a short time may mean something, or nothing, but it does give me pause before thinking about a $3-4K expenditure. I sure would like to hear one in my system. Glory, My MUSE Erato II was my only source prior to computer audio. I stupidly sold my Thorens TD-166 MkII (that I had owned since college) at a garage sale when I decided to permanently switch to "perfect sound forever." |
Mitch2,
Many of these guys have upgraded to L5 and Big6 after hearing the L4! One guy moved to PBD because he wasnted DSD and rips vinyl to DSD128 now. Well last week the Lampi DSD128 was finalized and I have one of the first ones. The same fellow who moved to PBD (who loved the Lampi PCM, even better than the PCM on the PBD) asked me to see if I can get a hold of a PDB-3 and compare them on DSD. It so happens that I may be able to in a few weeks as I know demo room with PBD 3 and 5 and its on our agenda. It is possible to retrofit DSD on a PCM Lampizator Dac now.
I wont tell you what to do, but I suggest you listen for yourself and make up your own mind.
BTW, Vortex said:
I have all the original shipping materials for a safe journey to the new owner. I placed this order right before I unexpectedly bought a house and decided to move cross country. All my time and finances are needed for this new venture.
|
That's correct, I'm selling mine. I had the idea of starting to enter into the digital world and placed an order for this DAC. A week later I had the opportunity to buy an amazing house that's 2500 miles away. This was not in the plans at all. Now, I'm scraping money together for the deposit and moving cross country within the next 2 months. It's a great unit, no doubt about it. I won't say I like it better than my analog, but I can see how some may think so. |
The old I am moving away and need $$$ trick LM$O. |
I heard of one guy placing an order for a Big6 one hour after setting up his new L5 and listening to it.
The really instructive thing is that the L4 sell fast second hand. They are very good. |
I suggest you listen for yourself and make up your own mind. Great advice....In USA, where? how? Is there an importer with a demo unit, or is it strictly buy to try? |
Mitch, most are selling for the 5 or 6. That is a fact. This dac is very special and breaks though the ceiling of good dacs by quite a margin. My digital front end kills the sound that CD players like the top rated Cary 306, Ayre,and Esoteric brought to the table. Oh ya, forgot to mention a highly modified Sony and Marantz 7s1.
Really a whole new realm of resolution a plain old sounding like real music, not a stereo system. |
Mitch, go to Audiogon and find the post detailing the Rave in mid October in NJ.
Even if you cant make it there, post in any of the Lampi threads there asking if there is any owner close to where you live and you would like a demo.
People like Gopher in the NYC area could hook you up. Jriggy is in Indiana and Glory is in Fla. |
I was wondering how the bass in Lamp 5 or 4 sounds compared to solid state DACs. Sometimes tube bass is noted for sounding round and full without the detail, slam, and complete control of detail that solid state DACs can provide.
I do know in this era the two solid state and tubes tend to sound more similar than the past.
Just putting this out there for those with experience. |
Srg,
The Lamp Dac is not about big bass little bass textured bass and so on. In the L5 the bass is where and what it should be. These machines are about music connection. A live realist and convincing sound that will keep you involved with the music you play.
Very nice system you have. If bass is a concern I would dump the cables you have and look for a huge upgrade in cables that would effect the bass.
Stage 3 is one of the very best AC cables and Thales IC is one of the best I've had in my system. Aaudio Imports sells both. Call Brian for a demo and report back. |
I use a SS amp (with superb woofer control due to negative ouput impedance), so have no complaints on that front with my Lampi L4. Perhaps with a tube amp, it may be different, I dunno?
I dont know the L5 personally... |
I'm a friend of Jim Yorkshire and have heard his many times. You should be able to answer that question yourself.... |
SGR, the bass in my tube rectified L4 is very tight and has great impact and body. The Bendix tube in that position really gives the Lampy a kick in the bass area! |
The bass is certainly better than my past SS April Music Eximus DP1 dac that sells for $3200 and is very, very highly reviewed. |
Thanks all for the feedback.
Glory, you commented on another post about some reservations about build quality and the DACs needing some help from Ming Su? Is this still a problem? |
I build stuff and the build quality of my unit is very good. It is point to point wired with a very robust power supply with multiple chokes and Mundorf film caps. He uses silver wire and I could go on and on.
Understand these are not mass produced circuit board only designs with that modern day factory look. They are home made point to point wired with parts mounted on wood etc.... Some look at this as poor build quality, but they are using mass produced, printed circuit board, sterile looking pieces as the standard. Apples and oranges really. |
Mitch2,
I purchased a Level 4/gen 4 and sold it shortly after the purchase... Did it underwhelm? NO! I bought a Big Six and TranspOrt! I have two friends within 30 miles of my home that did the EXACT same thing as me.
I have a friend in Cali that did the same after about 2 months with his 4 and another friend in NYC about to take the plunge.
That accounts for 5 the Level 4 sales. |
Hi Gopher,
Ok, I get it - sounds like a lot of happy Lampizator customers out there. Lukasz is fortunate that sales of the Level 4 and positive reviews on these forums have helped folks become aware of his DACs. I have done about as much reading about Lampizator as I can, and now need to decide whether to give one a try, or not.
The HEX I am using is an excellent sounding and well reviewed DAC, and for many would be an end game piece. It is very neutral, sounding neither lean or fat, and still manages to accomplish excellent bass extension and drive, as well as an organic/realistic presentation. It does absolutely nothing wrong. It is just that my personal listening preferences lean toward a touch more midrange/midbass warmth. The only two DACs I have read about that may provide those characteristics, without significantly losing out in other areas, are the Lampizator and the CAD 1543, which is almost unknown over here in the USA. Because of availability issues and the relatively high pricing of the CAD, it is likely I will try a Lampizator first. |
It is just that my personal listening preferences lean toward a touch more midrange/midbass warmth. Lampi appears to be your answer. Digital and"organic" are two words you rarely hear together. It is hard to get right IMO. I have not owned vinyl or tape, but when I hear it, it sounds right. That is the "sound" I am looking for in my digital front end. The Lampi appears to be my answer too. I appreciated your observations on the MUSE vs a dedicated computer. Computers look like a panacea largely due to the convenience factor, but they are very hard to get right. You don't know this until you actually do A+B experiments. |
Srg,
You're fishing and Glory is not biting. |
Has anyone compared a GZ34 to a 6106 in level 4? |
I'm curious if it does do this, perhaps through some DSP. Maybe even DSD128?
Bruce |
DSD is via tri-level filtration. No dac chip and no DSP. |
Mitch2, I mean AudioCircle when referring to the Lampi Rave info. |
Hi,
Thanks for all your answers. Jim brought his DAC and transport over this weekend. It was really great hearing it in my system. Needless to say I'm now a committed Lamp fan! It provided all my system was lacking. My system sounded like music for the first time. I had gone to see Diana Krall at the Fox here in St. Louis. Fabulous concert by the way. If you like her CDs she is better in person.
I came home that night and listened to my system with the PWD II. It sounded very good I thought. Then came Jim with his Lampy. At first listen it was hard to tell the difference but after about an hour things really started to warm up and Diana was in the room. With the PWD the sound was there and it was like a black and white photo, well defined nothing missing and sharp details.
Then the Lampy, the sound simply became music and instead of black and white Diana was there in 3d Color. Fun to listen to and I might say highly addictive.
After Jim left, (he was kind enough to leave Lampy there over night) another friend and I listened till well after midnight. We couldn't get enough.
Now Jim lives in Illinois across the Missouri and Mississippi from me. I texted him,"That during the night the rivers had both flooded and so it might be a month or two before I could return his beloved DAC and Transport."
He texted back, "That was ok he'd buy a boat and come get it!"
Glory,
Not on a fishing trip. I fish not for Glory but Giant Blue Cats only!
Thanks for the cable tips but there is not a bass problem in my system with the Lamp or PWD. It is amazing how good the Signal Cable really sounds. I was just concerned about tube bass vs solid state but no concerns now.
I'm ordering a Level 5 and Transport right away.
Thanks for now and thanks Jim,
Steven |
I'm ordering a Level 5 and Transport right away. Bravo! Did u try it without the Transport? I have heard a stock mini with the background software turned off is the way to go? |
Wow, good for you SGR! You will love them! I dont have a Transport, but I know its da bomb. I do have a cap modded SBR (with Linear PSU running from my L4, so I can only imagine how much better the Transport is)
Jim is a nice guy. I know him from FBook.
Get the DSD option (and volume control) with the L5, you wont regret it.
PM me over at AudioCircle for more tips if you like
I am wisnon there too. |
Sgr,
Gopher ordered two tranpsorts and has one for sale here on A'gon. It is brand new and you get to choose which color you want for the face since the unit is being built now. He can probably have it shipped to you direct. Save some $$$. |
Does this mean that standard CD's or music stored on hard disk is DSD through the Lampi? Or still PCM.
Also, who is the U.S. distributor? Are there local or regional dealers?
Thanks! |
Weatherb,
DSD and PCM is BOTH played back natively in Lampi Dacs.
DSD will either be an add on option to the normal Lampi Dac (whic is PCM) or you can buy a DSD-ONLY Lampi dac which will NOT play PCM in any shape or form. If you convert PCM music to DSD via computer program (Saracon/JRiver PC, etc), then you can play that back on a Lampi DSD-only Dac.
However, if you have a L5 with the DSD option, it would be best to play back PCM natively via the PCM section of the Dac and DSD, via the DSD section. You can use the remote to toggle inputs to the Volume Control/preamp selector. DSD is filtered and sent as an analog signal to the volume control. |
Wisnon: Thanks. That clears things up for me. |
Just learn from this thread that Lampizator also produce a Transport. Reading through their pages, it seems that it only has S/PDIF output and limit at 24/96. Is this correct? So it won't work with DSD stream? Thanks for sharing the info. |
No, it wont play DSD. It is based on the SqueezeBox receiver and is limited to 24/88.
People who have one say they dont care about HiRez anymore as its sounds so good on RBCD. |
|
Hi,
While not an expert I do have first hand experience with the TranspOrt which is really a streamer built on the bones of a Squeezebox Duet. (Go to the Lampizator.eu site and read about and see how it is made.) Yes it is technically only capable of what you say above. But, it in reality does much more. In short the thing sounds incredible. What it does to Redbook negates any need for hi Rez offerings, (have not heard DSD yet) I have tried it with a Lampizator 4 DAC, a Theta Gen 5a, and the PS Audio PWD II with Bridge, in each case, the Lampizator transformed the sound to a bigger, bolder, more realistic sound than before. Can't wait for mine to be delivered. |
Anybody here running the Level 5? If you have compared it to Level 4, in what ways does the 5 improve on the 4? Thanks. |
I'm wondering...do the folks who purchased generation 1 thru 4 get free upgrades? Sadly they must realize how inferior their older generation Lampizators are compared to the current generation. Design improvements are good things, but this DAC seems to be a work in progress. I'm waiting for level 26/version 18 and then I'll buy one! |
Rockyboy, then you will never buy anything cutting edge digital from any maker.
I guess any high end gear for that matter. Not a bad idea! |
I've resisted posting much on the forums in the last few years because it mostly seems like an exercise in mental masturbation. That being said, I must give credit where it is due and thank those that pushed me toward the L4 Lampizator. It is a truly a deeply satisfying piece of audio equipment. Thanks Gary(Glory), Andrew(Agear), Fred(Gopher), Bill(Grannyring) and everyone else that's had an influence on the purchase. Lukasz seems to be a rare designer that has both the technical skill and hearing to make equipment that absolutely enriches your music listening experience. |
Rockyboy, I understand that Lucas is very generous with upgrades unlike many other manufacturers I will not name.... |
Boy ,
Gen 4 will suit you just fine if you are not a Walmart shopper. |
