There was some discussion about the graphene coating and IIRC seas also emphasized it's use for preventing, I think, Oxydization especially in certain climates. So I think there is truth to what gadios wrote.
However, the new Graphene Seas drivers were more than the coating - other aspects of the driver were re-designed, which is one reason the crossovers had to be re-designed/tweaked for their use.
All together, with the sight changes in the drivers and Jeff Joseph tweaking the crossovers, it makes sense the new Joseph Graphene speakers would have evolved their sound somewhat.
My local JA dealer finally got the graphene Perspectives in so I'll probably hear them this week or next week.
|
@prof I have heard the Perspective2s and could not believe how close they sounded to a live music. It was insane. |
My original-version Perspectives certainly sound amazing!
As do my Thiel 2.7s. I switch between them. Love the Thiels though when I listen to them I can miss the juicy, reach-out punchy quality of thePerspectives bass.
|
@prof I am very curious how you will like the new Perspective2s. Hope you can find the time to write at least few words here. |
|
@markalarsen
I recently heard the Perspective2s and they are probably the best speakers I have heard. Pretty much they sound like live performance:) Amazing. Never heard anything like that.
Also, Lars Kristensen like you mentioned, a person with an amazing music selection for demos. That guy probably can setup a $1000 system and make them sound like $10000 :) I was so impressed with the Borresen 01s last year at FL Audio Expo. He picked all the songs. Well, last week at the FL Expo this guy gave him his CDs and the recordings weren't good I guess because they sounded horrible. Regardless, there is NO WAY I am paying $37K for them when I can get the Perspective2s for $15K. Not even comparable. |
Graphene coating on the Seas is to help prevent oxidation of the magnesium cone I don't think it improves the audio performance but the Seas graphene line also has a new driver. JA also tweaked the crossover. |
@celo Is 15K the msrp of the perspective 2?
|
celo,
Where did you hear the Perspective2? Florida show?
|
@smodtactical yes, unfortunately they’re $15K. I probably can’t buy in this life.
@prof yes FLAX. Last weekend. |
Prejudice is a very useful tool in life but sometimes, especially in audio, it can blind us from seeing what we may actually be ardently searching.
The Pulsar 2's according to Joseph Audio's website feature "a newly developed precision cast Graphene coated Magnesium cone long throw woofer".
A few years ago this statement would have set several alarm bells ringing (sorry!) in my head. Until recently I had never heard a metal driver which sounded entirely natural or life-like - and I had heard a few, including some highly acclaimed Vivid Audio models.
However having recently listened to various Bluetooth speakers using metal drivers I can now appreciate some of their strengths, especially in areas such as clarity, precision and lack of overhang.
Some of the vocals coming through my Tribit X Sound Go Bluetooth speaker were at least as clear as I'd heard on any loudspeaker previously.
Dare I say it, the clarity of diction was as good as that on my Tannoy Berkeley speakers which I believe feature a metal tweeter crossed at 2kHz.
This leads me to conclude that perhaps state of the art metal drivers, at least magnesium ones, have finally kicked ringing artefacts into touch for good, whilst retaining all their usual advantages.
Perhaps this is finally a genuine step forward in the development of loudspeakers? Hopefully it's also one that will eventually trickle into more widespread usage.
There you go, one prejudice now replaced by hopefully a more accurate one. |
cd318
I believe that, in the right hands, the problems with metal drivers were mitigated long ago. In fact, it was Paul Hales' Transcendence series of speakers in the late 90's, using the Seas drivers of the time, that ameliorated my "fear" of metal drivers.
I'd never heard sound so smooth, so utterly grain free and timbrally beautiful as when I encountered those speakers (I ended up with the Hales T5 floor standers, now gone, but I still own the Hales T1 and T Center channel speakers using the same seas drivers, similar to the Josephs, and they have this purity. I find the Joseph speakers improve on this with some greater dynamics and clarity).
|
Righto...
So today I dropped in to my JA dealer (who sold me my pair of original Perspectives a few months back), for a listen to the new Perspective2Graphene.
Before I get to that: taking user reports and show reports all together, the consensus seemed to be "stronger, tighter bass, more refined and resolved midrange and highs, though most of the changes noticeable in the bass.
I love my Perspectives, though of course no speaker is The Perfect Speaker for me. For instance, I know I’d also love the fuller, bigger, richer sound of the Devore O/96 speakers as well. And my Thiel 2.7s are also a bit richer/fuller sounding toward the top end as well.
Since I’d consider upgrading my Perspectives to the graphene version when I have the money, I had a couple of concerns: Did the bass change so much that it would now overwhelm my room? My current Perspectives are just on the edge of doing this sometimes, though most of the time they are well controlled and I love the bass quality.
Also, the new Perspectives measure flatter in the high end vs the uprising highs of the original. I wondered if possibly the descriptions of "smoother, more relaxed, easier on the ears" may have resulted in a darkening of the tone, less airy. And would they be a bit reticent dynamically in the upper mids/high frequencies?
Unfortunately one aspect I could not get a handle on was the bass performance. The speakers were hampered by being too close together and too close to the wall behind them, making the bass sound overwarm and exaggerated on tracks with deep bass. So that was a bummer to not get a good handle on that.
But aside from that, when the music wasn’t exciting the room bass nodes, the bass was nice.
What I heard generally speaking was, yes, what seemed to be a somewhat more refined, resolved, clearer sound. The clarity and cleanliness and that grain-free quality was remarkable. I heard bits and pieces, say an acoustic guitar part in a familiar mix etc, seem to be more vividly resolved and tonally separated in the mix. And the high end weren’t at all dark sounding - they kept essentially the same tonal signature of the original. But it just felt like the level of resolution and clarity had taken a step forward. This was especially evident in some tracks with layered electric and acoustic guitars where the highs were realistically extended, grain free and very present. The layers of shimmering harmonics heard between all the guitars and the guitar strings were the best I’ve heard. The sound had a sense of "luxuriousness" in it’s ease, clarity and gorgeous tone of each element in a mix.
To make sure they could rock I spun Rush’s 2112. The sound was rich, full and very punchy. All the track elements super clear and separated, and the tone of Geddy’s bass and especially Alex’s guitar, electric and acoustic, were rendered with a upper midrange/high frequency beauty...the guitar tone just shimmered with more complexity than on most speakers.
Also, the electric guitars did seem a bit thicker and more substantial than back home on my Perspectives (this is where my Thiels give a bolder presentation in the upper mids with electric guitar). Not sure if this was a trait of the new speakers, or the large Sim Audio amps driving them.
Back home, spinning several of the same tracks on my Thiels (currently in my system), the Thiels were as usual a somewhat richer, thicker sound, with very dense, round imaging, very organic and relaxing, but also dynamic. The main thing missing in the Thiels vs the Perspectives is the exquisite refinement of timbre up in to the higher frequencies. They miss that gorgeous sparkle and aliveness of the Perspectives. I love the Thiels’ bass which is both super in control, but dense and punchy. But the Perspectives (my Perspectives anyway) bass has even more roundness and punch/kick toward the listener, which makes bass guitar and drum kits (kick drum especially) feel more impactful and "in the room."
Anyway, my hour-long demo of the Perspective2s left me with the impression that they are a slightly more refined version, which seem to retain what I like in my Perspectives. I’m a bit haunted by some of the sound quality I heard today so I’ll certainly consider upgrading my Perspectives when I have the money. Though for me the jury is still out about the bass quality.
|
Thank you for the mini review and comparison. I have never heard the Perspective so I cannot make a comparison but the Perspective2 I heard had zero flaws for me in Jeff’s room/setup at the show.
Maybe being too close to the wall caused that issue for you.
I really think that if I can buy the Perspective2s one day, I would be set for life in the speaker department.
|
prof
"..the Thiels were as usual a somewhat richer, thicker sound, with very dense, round imaging, very organic and relaxing, but also dynamic. The main thing missing in the Thiels vs the Perspectives is the exquisite refinement of timbre up in to the higher frequencies. They miss that gorgeous sparkle and aliveness of the Perspectives."
I wonder if that difference might be, at least partially, down to the use of aluminium drivers in the 2.7s against the magnesium drivers of the Perspectives.
In any case I have also noticed that exquisite timbre in the higher frequencies, (perhaps 5-8kHz?) that most metal drivers seem to bring, along with an almost crystal clear leading edge speed which can make other drivers appear slightly blurred in comparison. It’s not night and day, but it’s there.
Of course, as you found in your response to the differences in comparitive bass reproduction, all loudspeakers seem to present a balancing act of various strengths and unfortunately unavoidable compromises.
Even so, it’s still those strengths we all ultimately strive for.
|
cd318
I've had to unlearn some intuitions along the way, or at least modify them.
I agree there does seem to often be a certain character of cleanliness and clarity with metal driver speakers. And this can come with something of an acidic or metallic aftertaste on the tone. I also had the belief that metal dome tweeters did the sound of metal more authentically. That was undone when I heard a speaker like the Josephs, which use a soft dome tweeter but on which drum cymbals jumped out to me as particularly authentic and metallic-sounding.
But if we are to stick with presuming for the moment the intuitions of how certain speakers sound due to their materials and build: something like the big fat ol' Devore speakers with their paper drivers sound particularly "organic," "woody/papery" where I just hear the wood in the body of an acoustic guitar, or the reedy tone of a reed instrument, or the vibrating wood of a cello. The sound is not electronic-edged, hard, metal-tinged.
The Joseph speakers do an excellent job of providing the sonic benefits of a modern-sounding speaker with great metal drivers (woofer/mids anyway) so you get as you say that super clean, pure, "fast" sound.But Jeff Joseph has cannily designed in, or kept, a richness in the lower mids down that, gives some richness and body, which combine with the grain-free smoothness and clarity of the upper frequencies to make a very attractive, sensuous sound.
They don't sound as bang-on organic to me as the Devore (or my Spendor) speakers overall. But they do surprisingly well and give a lot back by the sheer amount of beautiful harmonic content they dig out of a mix.
My Thiels, particularly driven by my tube amps, are a sort of in-between the Devore and Joseph sound.
I was listening to the opening track of the Bullit soundtrack which is great because it has guitar, drums, bass, and all sorts of different instrumentation, muted horns, horns, sax sections etc, flashing in and out out very dynamically. On my Thiels it's a big, rich, dense sound, satisfying in it's own way. There is what I'd call a "generalized organic tone" to everything.
However, that same track played on the Joseph Perspective2s had a timbral aliveness, variety and vividness the Thiels can't seem to match.The exact tonal difference of the muted trumpets appearing, the wood/metal sound of the saxes, the guitar, are so timbrally distinct and vivid it's sort of like beholding a timbral display of fireworks.My original Perspectives also do this. Though my sense is the new Perspectives go a bit further.
(Playing Rush on my Thiels last night was a blast. They go very loud without strain and do rock with a dense, punchy balls-to-the-wall energy).
|
@prof , I apologize if this is wandering to far off topic but I was curious as to what amplifier you use with the Perspectives perhaps you've said but I missed it, and what they were using at the dealer with the Perspectives 2 ? |
Graphene is a stiffener and a very good one, super lightweight and super-stiff, that’s what everybody wants for a transducer. Hel-loo! And that’s why graphene is very effective in tennis racquets (Djokovic’s racquet of choice for the last six years) and why graphene would be an excellent material for use in tonearms, platters, CD trays, CDs, isolation stand top plates, etc. What’s next, Graphene wall paint? Bring it on! |
@djones51
I use Conrad Johnson Premier 12 monoblock tube amps, 140W of push-pull tubes per side. And a CJ Premier 16LS2 preamp.
The dealer was using Sim Audio amps...integrated I believe.
The Joseph speakers are not very sensitive, but are supposed to be a benign load for tube amps.
|
Thanks, I am using a McIntosh integrated with only 100W, low level listening at night is constrained was curious if a little more power would open them up a bit without having to turn them up. |
djones51
I actually meant to add: I've also heard the Perspectives a couple of times at the same dealer using the McIntosh Integrated tube amp (100W I believe...so same as yours?).
Sounded great with that amp too. Though a bit more plumby in the bass. However, I find the Perspectives sound a bit flabby in that store generally speaking. Once I got them home and dialed in, powered by my CJ amps they are taught and well controlled.
|
BTW, just spent a while listening to various excellent speakers at a pal's house (he has PMC, Epsilon, Aurelia, and others). Each has fine qualities, but none have the open, extended, utterly grain-free and harmonically rich top end and mids of the Joseph speakers, IMO.Listening to other such speakers feels like listening in black and white in timbral terms - the Josephs more like listening "in color." (Again...to my ears).
|
Probably the same, MA 252 tubes on the pre section SS on the power, though they have a new integrated out MA 352 200W. Kind of why I was wondering if I needed a little more power it's like the amp doesn't grab hold of them where they bounce along tight with ease in the bass while keeping the mids and highs open and pristine at lower listening levels. I used to have some Paradigms paired with an Anthem I225 I wish I kept that old amp. I see you talk about Thiel's. I live in Louisville they were in Lexington, a little shop here used to get the new model Thiel's pretty quick, I think the guy who owned it knew him. I loved going there listening to them, never could afford them though, they always paired them with big Class'e mono blocks. |
Yeah, I remember that even in my city Thiels used to be paired with Classe amps.
I always liked the Thiel sound but found it just a touch dry and a bit hard.And people always said "Thiels are tough to drive, you need tons of current!"
It was when I heard Thiel CS6 speakers powered by VAC tube amps at an audio show that the veil was lifted from my eyes :-). It was an amazing combination of the Thiel virtues, with an organic liquidity.
I ended up with those Thiels being driven by the CJ Premier 12s and the combo was heaven, combining the type of attributes I heard in the VAC/Thiel combo.
The CJs have gone on to power every speaker, large or small, less or more efficient, in my room with seemingly no problems. Tube magic, but with punch, grip and control. That's why I can't see getting rid of them any time soon.
|
@djones51 When I ran JA Perspective speakers I found the more power I fed them the better they sounded. I never ran them with tubes, only SS.
|
prof,
On my Thiels it's a big, rich, dense sound, satisfying in it's own way. There is what I'd call a "generalized organic tone" to everything.
However, that same track played on the Joseph Perspective2s had a timbral aliveness, variety and vividness the Thiels can't seem to match.The exact tonal difference of the muted trumpets appearing, the wood/metal sound of the saxes, the guitar, are so timbrally distinct and vivid it's sort of like beholding a timbral display of fireworks.
......
IMO.Listening to other such speakers feels like listening in black and white in timbral terms - the Josephs more like listening "in color."
Yes.
For me it's also a bit like LED v OLED.
Neither are strictly accurate but one has that extra touch of heightened reality, which renders the comparison a no-contest.
|
I’d say more like 1st Gen. LCD vs. last Gen. OLED.
There’s a guy who auditioned them recently and said he wouldn’t buy them because the dealer won’t come down on the price. He must now have not liked them enough. Not liking the Perspective2 is like not liking Amish butter on top of freshly baked sourdough bread. Interesting. |
Not liking the Perspective2 is like not liking Amish butter on top of freshly baked sourdough bread. Funny enough, I just came immediately from watching a youtube "foodporn" fine dining video with someone eating bread/butter just like that and I was salivating watching it! (Can you imagine giving up carbs/bread, as some people do?) Anyway, I'll likely upgrade my Perspectives to the Amish butter version...er...Graphene coating version....when I can :-) |
Guys,
Read the seas white paper on the graphene mid woofer. They make it pretty clear it is an oxidation retardant.
They also make it clear they have made significant improvements to the motor. |
erik,
Yeah, we went through that in this thread :-)
|
Not sure what the current price is but last summer I had my Perspectives upgraded to the Graphene 2 the cost was $3750 plus shipping. |
|
Celo, yes for new ones not for the upgrade. |
Ohh you meant the current price for the upgrade. Thought you were asking the current/new price of the latest model. |
@prof they do sound as smooth as butter, for sure :) |
Rereading I didn't make that very clear did I |
Having liked the original Pulsars and being interested in Graphene, I thought I’d read a few posts but got sucked into reading the entire 9 page thread containing everything Jerry springer could ask for. Physical threats, a fight where a city got called an armpit, lots of praise for horrible sounding speakers no one asked about, and a village idiot!
Also Is Prof. an audio mixer for film? After having to defend his hearing, it seems like the air in the room he’s describes is room tone. |
@prof
Yeah, we went through that in this thread :-)
Exactly, but it seems like it's all new again. :) |
Some update after living with my Perspective 2 for few months. I bought/sold 5 speakers in last 1.5 year - Daedalus Athena V2, PAP Horn1, Wilson Sabrina, Harbeth 30.2 and JA Perspective 2. Except Sabrina, I was happy with all the other speakers. Sabrina is great except that it’s really high maintenance and fussy - you need top notch front end for it to not sound harsh and fatiguing on bad recordings. I just couldn’t deal with it. In this 1.5 years - I’ve attended 3 audio shows, went to at least 10 dealers for extensive demos and listened to hundreds of speakers of all price classes. The 5 speakers I’ve went through (except Sabrina) - they all have these traits in common - very organic, non-fatiguing, rich, musical sounding. However, all of them were missing something in different ways albeit very satisfying. I had the Athena for longest - 4 years. So obviously it’s a fantastic speaker. But I wanted to try something new and that led me down this path. All the rest of the speakers, within few weeks of playing - I could feel it in my guts that I was not going to keep them eventually. But with Perspective 2 - it’s a different story all together. I’ve owned JA Pulsar in the past. But wasn’t my type - too soft and polite on rock music. Not enough oomph. So, I wasn’t really considering JA speakers during my search. However, RMAF and CAF visiting JA room changed all that. I know show conditions are not ideal. However, I just couldn’t be apart from that new JA sound. I had to have them. I’ve never felt that way about any speakers in recent times. I just couldn’t get the sound out of my head. So, after the honeymoon phase is over - does it live up to my initial infatuation? The answer is - YES, a resounding yes. And you know what’s encouraging - I’ve not really put enough time to optimize the speaker or have the electronics (except my source) worthy of the Perspective 2 yet. So, it can only get better and better from here. I’ll try to be brief. Some important characteristics that makes me smile everytime I listen to them: - Music sounds effortless and relax (regardless of the type of genre). - Even bad quality recordings are immensely enjoyable. This one is the holy grail for me. Example: "Night shift" by Lucy Dacus. Modern pop/rock album. Wonderful song. However, around 4:11 - the noisy/lo-fi electronic guitar riff used to pierce my ear even on my previous Harbeth. However, on JA Perspective 2 - it is immensely listenable without taking away the rawness of the track. I honestly do not understand how JAP2 does this balancing act. - Female art pop/folk songs are rendered with all the right emotions and timing. Angel Olsen’s "Never be Mine" or "Chances" - sounds as haunting as ever. - Voice and acoustic music has the elusive soul. One of the best album of last decade - "A Crow Looked at Me" by Mount Eerie, I get swept up in the emotion that the artist went through with teary eyes. Not that other speakers didn’t have the same effect on me. But on JAP2 - I think it feels more real; as if I can empathize him better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Crow_Looked_at_Me- Modern rock songs have the proper punch, authority, drive, meat on the bones. The song "Air" by Waxahatchee from the album Ivy Tripp, sounds as dynamic as I’ve ever heard on any speakers. - Classic rock: One of my go to song for speaker auditioning is T. Rex - Main Man, and The Slider. I’ve played these on system costing north of 6 figures. But I don’t know why the sounded the absolute best on JAP2. Obviously, the max SPL, life like dynamics room filling capability of JAP2 is not going to be like the Avantgarde super horn I played them on. But it wasn’t as musical as it is on JAP2 in a real world setting. JAP2 has rich, juicy bass that lends itself really well to older rock recordings I think. - Electronic music: Thom Yorke’s Anima, the new Tame Impala album, Air - they all sounded really really good. Electronic music doesn’t have the nuances/refinement for JAP2 to highlight. But it’s an excellent speaker for this genre given their impactful bass, warm and accurate midrange and wonderful macro and micro dynamics. I wanted to write some of the traits that of JAP2 that I’m looking to improve. But it’s getting too long. Probably in a follow up post. |
I kept writing the same thing over and over again making myself think if I really got paid by Jeff to write:) I think if he paid me to write for speakers that I didn’t like, I would have hated my job.
I first heard JA speakers at CES in the late 90s. It was good but nothing special that drew my attention. Then last year at FL Audio Expo and it still didn’t do it for me.
Two weeks ago, I went to FL Audio Expo again. So, we were passing in front of Jeff’s room but since I am biased and think they’re not for me, I told my wife “Nah, skip it”. Well, we had to pass his room again because it was on our way back to the other floor. My wife convinced me this time and I was floored how real the sound was. I couldn’t believe it. We left the room and before we left the show, I had to go back because I had to make sure it wasn’t just that moment/track. Well, I liked it even better second time. It was unreal how beautiful and live the sound was. I swear you could close your eyes and think you were in a church when he was playing a track had pipe organ in it.
I have heard speakers from A to Z. I own Harbeth SHL5 and Falcon LS3/5As. And I hadn’t heard or read about them before either. I came across the Harbeth’s at a dealer and heard the LS3/5As at FL Audio expo last year. When I audition speakers, I never pay attention and try to evaluate them. They find me. If I hear something very different from the speakers, then I turn my radars on.
There aren’t many speakers that could do that for me. The JA Perspective2s, did this for me in the most realistic way. Probably the best speakers I have ever heard. |
emailists,
Correct. I do sound design (not a mixer - editor) for film/tv, so yes was referencing room tones and air tracks. I'm often either mixing and matching room tones I provide, or matching the room tone audible in between the dialogue in the production track . Especially if they are keeping the original dialogue recording and there is an artifact, e.g. room hum or the very particular buzz of the lights in that room, I will try to match it. Same with exterior "air tracks" - I may have to select or adjust tracks I place in to exactly match the timbre of something in the dialogue tracks, be it background traffic, an industrial hum of some sort, or any other artifacts.
Sometimes I'm balancing and carefully mixing up to 60 separate tracks of sound or so - minute volume changes, eq, processing to make some stand out, some blend in. It always cracks me up when a fellow audiophile has no other resort but to try to diagnose someone's hearing acuity over the internet to call his ability to perceive audible differences in to question. Especially someone in my vocation. I'd love to see how some self-designated golden ears who profess to hear differences with every tweak would do if their ability were *really* put to test in my editing seat ;-)
|
celo,
I kept writing the same thing over and over again making myself think if
I really got paid by Jeff to write:)
Ha, I've had the same feeling as I've written so much about the JA speakers for quite a while here, and elsewhere.
I think if he paid me to write for
speakers that I didn’t like, I would have hated my job
That's how I felt. I did a little audio reviewing in the late 90's and had no interest in reviewing speakers I didn't...or even might not like. So I only took the gig if I could write about the speakers I wanted to write about. Basically, I wanted to select out the speakers that excited me so I could tell others about those speakers. The slightly paradoxical thing for me is that I simultaneously love audio and checking out high end gear, but when it comes to "would I want to own this?" - particularly speakers - the list is vanishingly small. It is the rare speaker that has a magic factor for me. Most hold my interest just long enough to get a gist, and then I don't feel compelled to keep listening. It's the ones that keep my butt immobilized wanting to hear track after track that are keepers. (Which of course is how many other audiophiles feel about auditioning equipment). The Joseph Perspectives did this every single time, without fail. I have a friend who reviews who is much more suited to being an audio reviewer. He can appreciate a much wider range of equipment. Whereas most of the speakers he reviews have me interested for moments, and then I wouldn't want to have to keep listening to them much longer. |
@radiohead99
Great user report.
And wow, nice speaker list of the ones you let go. I'm curious what you'd have to say about the PAP Horn1 speakers. They seem very different from the Josephs.
I agree on your assessment of the Joseph sound. It's so rare to hear a speaker that has as open, sparkling an vivid upper frequencies which are at the same time so relaxed and smooth. I have sensitive ears and worried somewhat that the vividness of the Joseph Perspectives, especially the originals that I bought, might be fatiguing over time. I found the opposite. I was able to listen more comfortably to loud levels than probably any other speaker I've owned. The Perspective2s would be even more comfortable, from what I've read and what I heard.
And, as you mention which I've said as well, the JA speakers seem to do well with a wide range of music because they have that exquisitely refined midrange and highs which give you wonderful tone for acoustic music, but also that juicy, punchy bass that keeps the fun factor for rock, funk, pop or whatever.
There's a track on the Collateral Soundtrack - Korean Style - that I heard on the Perspectives years ago and it completely grabbed me with it's swirling array of synths punching in and out, going through envelope filters that move the sound from thin/bright to opening up to lush and thick. This is where that beautiful timbral pallet of the Josephs paid dividends beyond acoustic music. That track is just so vivid and juicy on the Perspectives. I haven't found another speaker that quite does it justice like the Perspectives - it's "fine" on other speakers but "wow that sounds amazing!" on the Perspectives.
|
@prof I agree. Today, there are so many gear choices, it is ridiculous. There are $400 speakers sounding amazing. There are $100K speakers sounding meh. However, still they all sound fine. I mean they’re good. But to find that “special” one is hard. I swear, at the FL Show, there was systems that cost $500K and it really didn’t do it for me. I don’t want to name them here but JA should cost at least ten times more than most “high end” speakers at the show. |
Lots of really great information on JAP2, well done Prof and the rest! I fell in love with these speaks at CAF last Nov. Despite a challenging listening environment in a tiny room this speaker turned heads, certainly mine.
I’ve always like JA speakers but have only heard them at the CAF - might be my next speakers but I need to spend some time with them and no dealer in my area. Like some of you guys I have Thiel CS6 in my system and have been a Thiel guy for 20 years.
|
pops,
The CS6 was one of my favorite all time speakers (I had them for a while, long ago). I’m still a Thiel guy. I don’t see getting rid of my 2.7s any time soon.
I love having the Joseph speakers too, though.
Obviously no speaker is perfect and I can, like others, pick nits in every speaker I own. But having said that, I get obsessive when researching speakers before a prospective purchase. I have probably bookmarked everything someone said on the internet about the Joseph speakers :-)And I don’t think I have ever seen as close to that much consensus of approval about a speaker brand anywhere else (that I’m aware of).
It's not like everyone wants to *own* a Joseph speaker of course. But whether it’s reviews, or user reports, or show reports, whether in "objectivist" or "subjectivist" audio forums, and from users of all different types of speakers from panel to horn, people who have heard the Joseph speakers almost always say how impressed they were.Almost any other speaker I can think of seems more divisive.
|
@erik_squires
In the measurement section of of JA's review of the updated Perspective 2Graphene, JA makes this comment: the Perspective2’s plot of impedance magnitude and electrical phase against frequency (fig.1) suggest that the speaker is an easy load for the partnering amplifier to drive. However, while the Perspective’s minimum magnitude was 6.27 ohms at 135Hz, the Perspective2’s minimum was a little lower, at 5.36 ohms at 139Hz. The bass impedance peak was also greater, at 34.4 ohms at 59Hz compared with 15.6 ohms at the same frequency for the original speaker. https://www.stereophile.com/content/joseph-audio-perspective-loudspeaker-perspective2-grapheneCan you enlighten me: What, if any, consequences would this have for driving the Perspective2 vs the original version? I use the CJ Premier 12 tube monoblocks. Are there any implications as to the Perspective2s being harder to drive or whatever vs the originals (which I own)? Thanks. |
What, if any, consequences would this have for driving the Perspective2 vs the original version? I use the CJ Premier 12 tube monoblocks. Are there any implications as to the Perspective2s being harder to drive or whatever vs the originals (which I own)? Hi @prof Thanks for trusting me to answer this question. For a solid state (i.e. low output impedance) amplifier the consequences are probably very little. As the amp’s output impedance rises (damping factor drops) the frequency response of the amp’s output starts to tracks the impedance. So, the math says that increases in impedance will lead to increases in output. The other thing that is noticeable, and almost coincident is the phase angle is now bigger just above, ~ -45 degrees vs. ~ - 25 for the original. So long as this is coincidental with a high impedance this should not be an issue. The Perspective 2 isn’t what is normally thought of as "hard to drive" but if you ask if the change in impedance has the opportunity to alter the sound of the amp/speaker combo then yes, it is possible that there would be more output at the impedance peak, how much and whether or not it is unpleasant is another story. :) Both amps share quite a bumpy ride between the bass (150 Hz) to 20 kHz, but if you already like the sound of the original, I’m sure the new one won’t be much different, with potentially a stronger output at the peak. You know, I thought I had seen specs from JA which showed the speaker to be impedance compensated. Clearly these two examples are not! Something you did not ask about: The overall balance. Based on the impedance, frequency and assuming JA has kept the original tweeter, it looks like he’s not trying to get the tweeter as flat to 20 kHz as before. I would expect the new model to sound a little more relaxed in the top octave. Neither model exhibits frequency aberrations, so I just note this as a mild shift in goals. Best, E |
|
I wrote: Both amps share quite a bumpy ride I meant: Both _speakers_ share quite a bumpy ride |
