Ok, So after much thought and asking questions here on audiogon as to whether I should get a new cdp or DAC, I decided on a DAC because I plan on implementing a music server with a Mac Mini. I got it last week and hooked it up so that I could do A/B comparisons with my cdp as is, and through the DAC. My cdp is a 1-2 year old Onkyo dv-sp405 dvd/cd player. At first I was impressed. The bass and vocals were more defined, and there seemed to be more space. Not a lot more space, but just a little bit more openess. The vocals were also moved forward in the soundstage and had more thickness. The thing is, none of these things were very dramatic. THe more time I have sat and listened and done comparisons on many cd's I find the results vary. On some cd's there is significant improvement, and on others, hardly noticeable. In a blind test, do I think I could reliably say whether I was listening to the cdp directly or through the DAC? Let's just say I wouldnt bet my life on it. I probably wouldnt even bet 20$ on it, unless I could hear the two back to back, and on some recordings, not even then.
Now I know about diminishing returns, but I would think the difference between a 150$ dvd/cdp and a 2K$ DAC would be pretty obvious. On top of that, My DAC is hooked up with Transparent Cables (MW Super) and my cdp with 50$ Monster Cables.
Continuing.. I expect some people with say that a good dac needs a good transport. Some will probably say that the dac is being held back by the onkyo as a transport. I have also compared the cdp through the DAC against apple lossless files played from my computer through USB. They are identical.
What could be the weak link? I do not want to say what DAC I am using but lets just say it is a very recent one and around 2K. It is from a very respected company and very well reviewed. My other gear is a McIntosh MA6450 integrated, gallo ref 3.1 speakers, transparent cables. Could it be that my amp is not very revealing? I am thinking about selling the DAC and getting a cheaper one (DAC MAGIC, PS AUDIO DL3) since I will need one for my Mac Mini anyway. Honestly, I just dont think I can justify having 2K in my current DAC for the minimal difference.
BTW - it can indeed be subtle - lets suppose your CDP/DVD, cheap as it is, is working just fine (and why not - people rave about the Sony PS1!!) and say you use a good DAC then you would need to listen extremely carefully on a good system and good recording to hear it. IMHO percussion and particularly ride and cymbals and a certain "lightness" to the music is what you might expect. Thinner vocals too. Imaging may be slightly better making the soundstage narrower ever so slightly. The bass may sound a little tighter or punchier but overall it will and should be the same and not be anything like had you changed speakers which would be night and day.
And I read that he didn't know a GOOD ENOUGH HIGH CURRENT INTEGRATED that would work as well as the combo. To which I then, and still, doubt. but im done splitting hairs.
I agree with Cerrot that it would be very useful to know what the DAC is. Without knowing the DAC, everything else is pure guesswork. For example, if the DAC is a NOS DAC which does no internal jitter reduction, this could be the significant factor holding back the performance of the DAC with the Onkyo - in this case, adding a "jitter buster" such as from Empirical Audio or at a more budget level from Monarchy Audio might result in a significant improvement. But the reality is that without knowing what the DAC is, we can't identify if it is a jitter issue, a system synergy issue, a digital or analogue cable issue or a resolution issue in terms of the amplifier, and so on.
I don't think it would be considered that you (OP) would be unfairly criticising the product when you are simply asking the question as to what could be done to improve the sound in the context of your system. I think you would be able to benefit from far more considered advice by telling us what DAC you are talking about.
If it is the Bryston, as has already been speculated, you should know that which input you use to connect it to the transport will have a considerable impact on the sound. To say nothing of the cable being used. There's an interesting thread on this very topic over on AudioCircle right now.
I'm surprised that you recommend the Valab that much. Especially since you produce DAC's. You really think they are that good? Now you've got me wondering..
I would like to hear your detailed feedback on them.
Tvad's interpretation of what I said and meant is correct.
At that price point (used), I think separates in general will work better. I think the build quality needed for an integrated with similar performance would make it cost more.
Not to say there may well be a very good integrated for this application at that price point. I just do not know of one off the cuff. I offered the solution that I am most confident will work for lowest cost. That's all.
"That all depends on whether you rip directly to ALAC with iTunes or rip with EAC first and then convert to ALAC with iTunes."
Why would that make a difference? I don't get it.
Please don't tell me "Listen", from a technical point of view it shouldn't make any difference at all. Except if there is a problem with the ripping in one of the two applications mentioned.
Mapman, I understand what you're saying. No argument. I was just saying that its also possible to have an integrated work for that price just as well, and when you said you didn't know of a high powered enough one, i think that it's possible. I don't know of one either, but for $2k, there must be something. This was only suggested since the OP has an integrated and expressed wishing to stick with that route. I read you loud and clear.
Tvad, not sure how many posts you had to make to become unofficial Agon Fairy of All Points and Counterpoints Made, but it's obvious from this thread and the others I've read with your comments that you think pretty highly of yourself around here. Im wondering if you're this much of a cock in the real world.
Sorry to revive this old thread, but I'd like to agree with Audioengr..jitter is the #1 problem, but just changing the source may not fix it.
Separate cd transports and DACs were the flavor of the day about 15 years ago. Jitter is introduced when the signal goes from one component to the other unless they share the same clock. I believe this goes a long way to explain why one-piece players generally sound better than separate transports/DACs, and why the hi-end trend kinda got away from that, or so I thought.
If you have some way to put them both on the same clock, you're good to go, otherwise, I'd recommend getting a good one-piece player over any two-piece setup.
And I just bought a PS1 on eBay for $19.00 shipped just because I'm curious.
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