New Audio Research Reference 150 SE

If manufacturers didn't offer upgrades or advance their craft with new models what we have to talk about or look forward to? Oh....there's always the music, LOL!

Opus 111, you sure know the way ARC operates. It's called operation clean out your checkbook. I am not an ARC hater, in fact I own 2 of their pieces. I guess they can't go after new buyers because there aren't any. So they have to milk the owners they already have.

03-11-15: Opus111
Why not wait for a Reference 150SE MKII? It should be out by the end of the year

Nahhhhh ... life is too short. I hope they do offer a MKII so I can upgrade again after my SE upgrade.

I'm glad ARC offers upgrades. It's less expensive than replacing with something new.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2015/03/audio-research-reference-250-se-new.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+monoandstereo%2FHOym+%28MONO+AND+STEREO+Ultra+High-End+Audio+Magazine%29

Thanks Knghifi for the TAB link. I wonder if the SE version comes with a new fascia.

I'm holding judgment until I read some member comments and catch a review or two.

Why not wait for a Reference 150SE MKII? It should be out by the end of the year

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/news/arc_reference_se_amps.htm

@Oregonpapa ... looking forward to reading your comments. Did ARC tell how long the break-in period is?

Btw, I mentioned this above, but think it is worth repeating that Kal at ARC advised me that ARC has finally gotten around to blessing the KT-150 for use in the "regular" Ref 75 and Ref 150.

I bought 2 quads of KT-150s for my Ref 150 a couple of weeks ago. Yes, my amp sounds better. But 15% to 20% better might be a stretch.

Kal assured me that the SE version would make much better use of the KT-150s because revisions "tune" the amp to better match the KT-150s. Not sure what that means, but hearing is believing. I look forward to reading Oregonpapa's comments.

Bifwynne ...

From one "schmuck" to another *lol* ... my new REF-75se is supposed to ship tomorrow. Should have it by Thursday. See the new thread I started on this issue.

Happy listening ...

I wonder if ARC intends to phase out the current Ref line and replace it with the SE version at the increased prices. Or perhaps the current Ref version stay and the new SE versions fill in the gap between the current Ref line and the G series.

I also wonder if ARC intends to fill out the G series line. Possibilities might include a GS-250 and GS-750.

Dunno ... of course. But it seems that ARC is going up-market.

Knghifi,

I'm with you. I have around 900 hours on my Ref 250's right now so in another 1,000 hours or so, I will start to contemplate this. Options include sticking with the KT 120's, foregoing the upgrade and ordering Kt 150's, or getting the full upgrade with any circuit changes that may be of additional benefit. $9 K is so much money though, this upgrade better be transformational. I certainly won't be the one to beta test it, so I looking forward over the next several months to see how this plays out.

02-26-15: Philb7777
Geez, I bet it will be $10k for a pair of Ref 250's. That's too much scratch......

Philb7777, you were close. Today Kal said $9k for upgrading Ref250 to SE which includes a new set of tubes. New Ref250SE is $34K. A $8K increase from Ref250. I guess a new set of tubes from ARC including KT150, 6h30 and 6550 is ~$4k so $5k for the upgrade. $2.5K per mono.

I have ~400 hours on my Ref250 now and it sounds amazing so decided no tube rolling or upgrade until tubes need replacing. For now I'm leaning towards upgrade route when it's time.

This was at an Audio Research Dealer's secondary room. Don't know the dimensions, but size of an ordinary living room.

Tennisdoc, how big should a room be to take proper advantage for the 3.7s?

I auditioned the Galileo 150 amp yesterday driving the Maggie 3.7's. The combination was heavenly. What really is impressive is that when I saw that the subwoofer was off, and all of that palpable bass was coming from the panels. The sound product is reference level in my opinion. If I only had the room for them, I would purchase the combo.

David ... I ask myself the same question. I have about 50 to 75 hours on my KT-150s. Yes ... they sound better than the KT-120s, but not good enough IMO to justify the cost of $100 per tube.

I may be among the first group of schmucks to spring for the SE upgrade, but I feel like a schmuck for even considering the investment.

And btw, $5000 for tubes and "proprietary" parts, ... I hope they throw the snake oil in too.

BIF

If the KT150's work in the 75, 150 and 250 and they do, why do you need modifications to make the change optimal? I suspect most of the benefit is in the tubes themselves and they are cheaper to buy at Upscale Audio. You would need some brave soul to compare a cooking version of one of the ref series amps, that amp with KT150 tubes and a factory modified SE version.

It does sound a great deal of money to me, but it seems to explain why ARC has refused to say if the 150 tubes will work in the Reference series amps, for the last year. Sorry if this offends you ARC fans out there and I do love my Ref 75, but the company's main aim does seem to be to wring the last bit of cash out of loyal customers, they can.

$10k can buy you a pretty darn good integrated. Tube or SS.
I wonder what the price of a new Ref 75, 150, 250 SE will be.

I'm glad i haven't replaced my good old trusty Classic 120's with a Ref 75 or 150 now that i can get a MUCH improved SE version.

Geez, I bet it will be $10k for a pair of Ref 250's. That's too much scratch......

P.S. Kal commented that the Ref 150 SE will make Maggie 3.7i speakers sound heavenly.

Spoke to Kal today. He told me it was ok to put KT-150s into the Ref 150. Hallelujah ... Moschiach has arrived.

But wait ... there's more. The cost to upgrade the Ref 150 to the SE grade is $5000. Of course, that includes all new tubes --- KT-150s and 6H30s.

Kal said the objective of the SE upgrade is to tune the amp to take full advantage of the benefits of the KT-150 tube. Kal added that the improvement is on the order of going from the Ref 5 to the Ref 5 SE.

Five grand is a lot of scratch! The Ref 5 SE upgrade was only $2500.

Tsushima1 .... I think it was you who said that the cost for a Ref 150 SE upgrade would be roughly $3000. If so, more than half the value would represents tubes ($1600, or 8 x $200/per tube). The other half ... who the heck knows.

Kal said he did not think changing out power or output trannies was part of the SE upgrade. Just other "proprietary" parts and circuit changes. I am dubious that ARC would try and stuff any more power supply caps into the chassis ... not enough real estate left.

Kal said that the SE upgrades will be available soon. Perhaps more details will be forthcoming.

Kal responded. ARC will be making a formal announcement within a month or two.

The plan is to upgrade the ARC Ref 75, 150 and 250. Kal was a bit unclear what the changes will be other than the SE upgrades will include KT-150 tubes and misc circuit and component changes.

Well Well, I feel compelled to thrust an ice pick thought my left testicle just in case I am either dreaming or hallucinating.

An unequivocal responce from Obfuscation Central !!!!!

" I received the following from Kalvin at ARC

"Audio Research will announce new SE versions of the REF75, 150 and Ref 250 in March that will take advantage of the improved sound of the KT150.

Also, SE upgrades for existing REF 75, 150 and 250 amplifiers will also be announced. Factory upgrades will be made available as our supplies of the KT150 increase "

Errrm, No we do not.

Your sure you don't mean the new GS150, which use the KT150 tubes ?

Like this one :-)
AR GS150

Good Listening

Peter

P.S.S. did a general web search. No information identified yet.

P.S. Just checked ARC's webs site and the ARCDB web site. So far, no mention of an SE version. Of course, the web sites might not be up to date.

Sent a note to Kal for info. Waiting to hear back.

I wonder how much better the SE version will sound.

I believe that ARC also have plans to offer an upgrade service for current non SE Ref150 owners, via their dealer network, latest figure banded about = $3,000 including a set of ARC tested KT150's.