For all my rock is better than rap, behold:
Boston. It really was more than a feeling?
Foreigner. Try not to cringe when listening to Hot-Blooded.
Styx and Stones. Enuff said. Styx: still waiting for the spaceship. The Stones: also break my bones for dialing it for three decades.
Kiss: should never base a career on a tongue. Which is also the case of the Stones? Wow.
Hair Metal: came and felt the noise: was bored like wet Spandex.
But don't feel so bad, there is always 2010:
Lady Gaga: should probably focus on a career in fashion. |
TT: Kanye is dope. Made hip hop fresh again. Like the pine air freshener in my 63 Chevy lowrider with 20 inch rims. |
|
Lets not forget the rest of the clan;
Huey, Dewey, Louie
Dumbella Duck
Scrooge McDuck
Gladstone Gander
Gus Goose
Grandma Duck
Quackmore Duck
Hortense Duck
Grandpa Duck
Ludwig Von Drake |
Oh Oh, look who just arrived....come on in and make yourselves at home.
Dmob - great to see you coming in with guns blazing like that.....loved it. I was afraid to mention Diana Krall since there is a huge Kraller army on here. It was just like the infantry arrived.
Hey Bongo - looks like you got Darkmeobius all beered up before you guys kicked the door in.
Don't agree on the Kanye thing though - I never thought hip-hop stopped being fresh and never really got it when people said that about him. Plus, I have always been into a little more of the underground stuff, and to get the cover of time magazine I would have expected him to invent a whole new genre. As I said - great producer but I never could get into his rapping. When people from Sao Paulo speak they tend to sound like they are moaning (complaining) and Kanye's voice comes across to me like that too.
Great post too Bongo.
By the way, why should Kiss not make it based on a tongue? Jelo did it based on an ass.
Dmob - have you been reading my diary? Sounds like every name you mentioned was in there. |
Yanni = Fabio meets Tesh
or did he just fall out of the set of Braveheart. |
It seems everyone doesn't like someone... |
If all of the named "artists" are so untalented, then why are they successful and famous, whereas the people posting about them here are less so? Life is so unfair! |
Seems to me when you pan an artist you imply you have taste. You didn't hurt my feelings. I think PB is highly talented and didn't want anyone not giving her a shot just 'cause some dude with tin ears says she's crap, than which it doesn't get much worse. I could understand your not digging her, but "doesn't get much worse"? No, only tin ears and a taste vacuum could come up with that. Leonard Cohen too, a major lyrical talent, to say the least. If you think either of these folks are crap (whether or not your cup of tea -- another matter), then the failure is yours. Same if you can't discern that and how why PB smokes Diana Krall. It's not all personal taste. Some things are better than others. |
Thomastrouble: see my last. Madonna does have talent, but not musical talent. I referred to PB and Leonard Cohen.
Hmmm, my lame duck? There are so many. Obviously there's lots of stuff that sucks outright, so that only a musical ignorant or tin eared person could possibly like it. Yanni. David Sanborne. There's nothing there. Pablum. George Winston. Audible wallpaper. Music shouldn't smooth, it should move. Here: I think George Thoroughgood (sp?) sucks. K? Celine Dion too. Donna Summer. Could go on and on, but don't have any desire to offend. Still, some judgments are so far off track ya gotta call them on it.
Elvis? I have no use for him, and pretty well despise the whole sensibility, but I would never deny the talent and voice.
Maybe you two don't have tin ears. Maybe you just don't know what to listen for in PB and LC. Hard to say. But you are missing out.
And as for not getting out enough, maybe so, but only because I spend so much time listening to all kinds of awesome music on my nice Hi-Fi. |
Dankmobius: everything you said is right (which means I agree), except about Barber. Give her another shot. You didn't get sufficient exposure to hear the twists, edge, depth, intelligence and cleverness that are simply absent from the others. |
I know this is an opinion thread, but calling out metallica and kris kristoffersen...? crazy talk. maybe if you look at what they've done just the past few years.
Overrated in those categories would have to be Steve Earle and White Lion. |
Truman - re: Joel, there are a number of hysterical and insightful essays by pop culture vulture chuck klosterman that I encourage you to check out. He has an enormous amount of respect for BJ, and credits him with everything that he is due...and still makes a compelling argument that he's ultimately culturally insignificant. A great read for fans and critics alike - highly recommended. |
RNM4
Madonna has talent???? The only talent I can find there is her talent in hiding it.
Panning an artist isn't implying you have taste at all, it simply means you think that person ( Barber) is crap. If I thought she was great would that would that imply I had no taste?
I don't expect everybody to think my favorite artists are top of the heap, and I certainly wouldn't be hurt if they had their own negative opinion. Taste is nothing more than preference, though some people like to deny you that choice by insisting you prefer what they prefer.
As far as Leonard Cohen goes - pretentuous dribble as far as I am concerned. If you want to be wooed by spoken word go check out Tom Waits for a bit of lyrical genious.
Re. Elvis - what do you mean when you despise the sensibility? Gyrating his hips?......shocking !
I am taking a wild guess it you aren't into gangster rap. |
How about Jim Morrison, a god-awful poet who was touted as a genius! |
I'm impressed by the fact that some people haven't gotten this thread is obviously about personal opinion/preference and sarcasm. Nobody is insisting no one else like the things we hate.
Now, back to bagging.
David Sanborn. Now there's a timeless cheesemaster. To think, he was actually an accomplished bluesman before becoming the King of Smooth. I'd rather watch wet socks dry than listen to him for 30 minutes.
Sting. What a freakin' tool. Not only has he been putting out elevator music for the last 15 years, but any shred of respect I may have held for him went right out the door when he did the Super Bowl halftime show in gold spandex pants ~4-5 years ago. And did he really believe anyone gave a crap about his 4 hour Tantric orgasms? What a f'n wanker.
John Tesh. Johnny, johnny, johnny! Words alone cannot describe the scale of his lameness. He may actually be the single most cheesey musical recording "artist" of the last 20 years. The only individual I can think of that even challenges Tesh would have to be Vanilla Ice. But, Ice gets extra points for being a dick. At least Tesh is a nice guy. |
OK, did someone say Beynoce? Wow, that's just wrong for 3 reasons:
1) She may not have the greatest voice, but she's an excellent entertainer.
2) She's so freakin' HOT (and she has more class than just about all the other pretenders we have mentioned combined).
3) She's from Houston. |
Yeah, Beyonce
I'm a sucker for a hot face and a bountiful ass |
Macdad
Hilarious. I would also leave my wife and life with her in Houston. |
Wow Chashmal, for once we see eye-to-eye. :)
PS: I think the "God-awful Poets" would be a great name for a band! There, you score two points on the Bongometer.
At this rate, I figure, by May, you will be loving hip-hop as much as DMob, TT and myself. |
Beyonce: "Jay-Z, I am leaving you for someone I met on the internet."
HOVA: "Who is this mysterious Mac Daddy? That mutha is looking for a cap in his brain." |
Beyonce: "It was not his rig. It is that damn pecan pie at Goode Co." |
Dave Mathews, David Gray, current Springsteen, current U2, current Tom Waits, current Patricia Barber, D. Krall, N. Jones, and others of this ilk in their individual ways ALL SEEM TO BE STUCK ON ONE BORING, DROANING SOUND.
However, at least these folks have some genuine talent and have shared it with us from time to time. So many of today's music "superstars" really seem to be more full of luck than talent. [Was it ever really different? e.g., What did Dean Martin or Sammy Davis Jr. have to do with music that made them as popular in their time as Tony Bennett?]
From the non-talent list I would exclude K. Kristofferson, early Billy Joel, early Barber, early Krall, and early
R. Stewart, [any Jeff Beck "Truth" and "Beck Ola" fans here? How about "Gasoline Alley"?] who had in the past at least exhibited genuine and unique talent.
This music stuff is "art", right? Enjoyment is with the individual listener. We all believe we have exquisite tastes. I chuckle about the varied opinions here. It's a riot.
I'm a big fan of L. Cohen and enjoy his work even more today [I think his current live music is terrific].
By contrast I worked in Manhattan while Springsteen was coming up and generously stepping in for free at one or two of the bars in Jersy City and Hoboken. Loved his work back then. Today, however, I can't really stand listening to his music.
Likewise with how Tom Waits was a joy for me during many of my late-night college study spurts "the piano had been drinking" but now for me he is just a droaning, scratchy bore forcing his forced "poetry" on someone.
Oh well. At least it's fun communicating these things. |
I'm not saying I wouldn't want to hit that thing- I just said Beyonce had no MUSICAL talent! |
Dismissing Leonard Cohen as "pretentious dribble" (I presume you mean drivel) strikes me as awfully harsh. His particular genre ("contempopary art song" is probably as good a description as any) may strike some as pretentious in general, but Cohen is awfully good at it. Tom Waits is an interesting talent - no argument there -, but I suspect that you're in the minority as to his relative lyrical ability vis a vis Cohen. John Marks (IIRC) of Stereophile has written pretty extensively on Cohen and contemporary art song and offers some interesting insights.
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but IMHO (and just IMHO) you're off base on this one.
Marty
My personal favorite nomination so far is Edge from U2. I just saw the dvd "It Might Get Loud" with Edge, Jimmy Page, and Jack White. Page and White were always looking to (essentially) unadulterated blues for inspiration, while Edge was stroking a giant battery of effects boxes. I kept waiting for White to ask "Who let this guy in here?" |
Sit
Tom Waits is stuck in one boring droaning sound??? The guy is all over the place with his sound and that is what I like about him - far from safe.
Martkl
No, I had it right - dribble, better still, toilet flush. I just don't get it when a guy spurts out a torrent of supposed metaphors that mean nothing to anybody except himself, and I even doubt that. Such a poet, and a singer. He is probably laughing his ass off at all the people that pretend to get the absolute nonsense he passes off as "art" and are willing to pay $13.99 for.
Don't know what the hell Herbie Hancock was thinking when he brought the clown in on "River" - put a huge blemish on an otherwise great album, thank god it was the last track. I am already holding the remote ready to hit stop when the previous track fades out.
Still, whatever floats your boat, I know you would also cringe if you heard a lot of my favorites. Leonard Cohen just happens to be my personal pet peeve.
Darkmoebius
Exactly! People join a forum directing them to state who they think are in a position they don't deserve to be in, then when someone (including them) when we point out flaws in an artist we are "off mark" or cruel. |
Entrope
"it seems everybody here doesn't like somebody"
Pretty amazing, eh. |
Darkmoebius
Agree - Tesh makes Yanni look like Johnny Rotten. |
Hey Thomas,
Whatever you say.
I guess that I'm with the easily mislead and terribly misguided Cohen fans - including the hundreds of musicians who have recorded almost 2,000 cover versions of Cohen's songs. We have all been taken in by a giant scam perpetrated by that talentless hoodlum, who's laughing behind our collective backs the whole time.
Thankfully, you've seen through the ruse! We're saved!
OTOH, it's also possible that Cohen's lyrics (often about the conflicts of religion vs. faith, and sex vs. love) speak eloquently to anyone willing and able to listen and understand them. That would include Jeff Buckly, John Cale, Joan Baez, Jennifer Warnes, Johnny Cash, Tori Amos, Roy Buchannon, Nick Cave and a host of similar fools who don't realize thast it's all just:
"Toilet Flush"
Marty
PS I do, however, believe you when you say that Cohen is your pet peeve, |
Bongo-Furious,
That is too funny dude, this is no BS, I read your post, and on my way home stopped at Goode Co BBQ, picked up dinner for the family, and some pecan pie.
The wife will have no idea what's really causing my smile. Also, Beyonce's asset is not bountiful, it's beautiful!!
Oh yeah, I think Emerson, Lake and Palmer really sucked, back to the original question of Lame Duck artists. They especially sucked because they were all world class musicians who took themselves too seriously. They were no fun at all. |
Thomas-
I did not elaborate that everyone doesn't like someone that is a gold or platinum selling artist enjoying critical acclaim and the adulation of fans and critics.
Go figure... |
Mac daddy
I was just there yesterday. Took the edge off the cold rain. You can thank your lucky stars that may be the best Texas brisket in Houston. |
Taylor Swift can't sing, writing and performing is okay and her fans love her. Now winning a Grammy for vocal performance what a joke. Grammys have sold out now too. |
Entrope
I know - my sarcastic Britsh sense of humor gets the better of me - just having fun. |
Agree - Tesh makes Yanni look like Johnny Rotten.
= best post ever. |
Martykl
I actually have his CD "Dear Heather" playing as I write this and I am trying to get into it but I find it extremely funny, and that dreadful attempt at some kind of sexy voice is just killing me. I just find it incredible that he is serious. Some decent music behind the voice and that's it.
Anyway, I grabbed some lyrics to to run by myself in attempt to delve into the mind of a genius.
TO LIVE IN A HOUSE THAT IS HAUNTED BY THE GHOST OF YOU AND ME
YOU WERE MARLON BRANDO AND I WAS STEVE McQUEEN
YOU WERE KY JELLY AND I WAS VASELINE
That's pretty deep man.
Here is an excerpt from an interview when he was approached unexpectedly back-stage:
In this interview he was asked to explain the lyrics to one of his highly regarded songs -
"I'm not sure what it means right now because I had this long voyage from Chicago. I think it means exactly what it says. It is a terrorist song. I think it is a response to terrorism. There's something about terrorism that I have always admired, that position is always very attractive. I don't like it when it's manifested on the physical plane. I don't really enjoy the terrorist activities - buy Psychic Terrorism. I remember there was a great poem by Irving Layton that I once read - I'll give you a paraphrase of it. It was "well you guys blow up an occasional airline and kill a few children here and there" He says "but our terrorists are Jesus, Freud, Marx, Einstein. The whole world is still quaking."
He goes on to clarify the meaning of another one of his great masterpieces:
"It's a curious song. I used to know what it means but I don't know what it means anymore, and I think it was just a moment ago that I wrote it. I think I intended to take Manhattan and then Berlin. Oh comrades you are very kind and very warm, but kind as you are and warm as you are it will not deter me from my appointed task which is to take Manhattan and then Berlin and any other cities and do with them what I will.
Oh, now I get it.
He's selling camel shit and telling you all its top grade hash.
Oh, the title song "Dear Heather" has just come on - quite possibly the worst song I have ever heard in my life, it really is amazing that this circus is supposed to be serious. Don't know if you are familiar with the song "Dear Heather", if not check it out on the internet and give me an honest opinion - I am genuinely curious to see what you are all getting out of this. Don't mean to sound rude but it really does anger me to see people getting away with passing this twaddle off as art or music. |
Musicman, The music industry sold out years ago with particular fever sometime beginning in the early '70s. Grammies have been generally bogus for years. Hey, it's big business and that's ok.
A couple of good tunes about it that come to mind are Rundgren's "The Death of Rock 'n Roll" ('75) and Van Morrison's "Big Time Operators" ('93).
It was refreshing to have the Foo Fighters get a grammie a year or so ago. And yea, there are others who've won who are deserving but such is a rarity I.M.O.
I've made sifting through the music "crud" for what I like an enjoyable life-long hobby; one no less interesting than that audiophile disease of searching for the Holy Grail in equipment. |
Thomas-- Madonna has talent for publicity, making $, and tapping in to and shaping teen sensibility (or did anyway). |
Thomas,
Don't know "Death Heather" but, given his ambition and associative style, it should come as zero surprise that Cohen will produce an ocassional airball. Aim high and you can fall shorter. As a general rule (for me), the more explicit his poetry, the more likely it misfires. You may have just found one miss. Congratulations. There are more. There's also, say..., "Hallelujah", an absolutely exquisite piece of poetry, which seems to have resonated very deeply with the many, many artists who've covered it to tremendous effect. There are more of those, too.
As to the "psychic terrorism" of Jesus, etc - his meaning is pretty clear (even though his choice of words is designed to provoke a reaction).
Finally, the "I'm not sure what it means now". This is a fairly common notion, not only among poets, but also among really ambitous writers of prose. Thomas Pynchon (considered by many to be the finest living American novelist) once acknowledged that there are parts of "Gravity's Rainbow" (considered by many to be his finest novel) that he can't decipher today. Associative writing, by it's nature, is the product of the moment and sometimes the entire point is that the resonance of an association resists rational explanation. That part is called "poetry".
Marty
Bottom line:
I never said Cohen was perfect.
You've said (repeatedly) that he's a poseur and a fake.
I look at the ARMY of highly regarded artists (and a fair number of writers and critics) on my side of the fence and feel pretty comfortable that the best examples of Cohen's poetry have passed the highest level of scrutiny (save your own).
That said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. |
Sorry,
I guess it's "Dear Heather". Still don't know it.
I forgot to finish the point of the "terrorism" and "First We Take Manhattan" bit.
First off, he renounces violence at the outset (rejecting terror in "the physical plane") before expressing admiration and name checking Freud, Jesus, etc - "and the world is still shaking". He's simply stating an admiration for those who forward a point of view that the world cannot accept and push through the resistance of the world until the resistance is overcome and they are taken seriously. Marx and Einstein both qualify in this respect. Terrorists qualify, too. It also explains why "First We Take Manhattan" can be understood literally. The song is about imposing your will (worldview) on the world around you. You may not find this idea profound, provoking or moving, but it certainly a thoughtful lyric, reasonably well (if somewhat colorfully and provocatively) explained in an interview.
If you find that exchange evidence that Cohen is a poseur, I fully understand why you don't "get" his lyrics.
Look, my point here is that putting Cohen on this list (next to Yanni and the like) is silly. I stand by it.
Marty |
Thomas,
I will check out the song and get back to you. I wouldn't at all be surprised to agree that it's a failure (possibly even an embarassing failure). But remember that Babe Ruth struck out over 1300 times during his career. That doesn't change the fact that he is among the handful of great hitters who have ever lived. You've got to take the bad with good, man.
Marty |
Thomas-
Taken if fun as intended.
As for Cohen - I always think of Peter Sellers in "Being There" where his simple utterances are read into as profound insights. |
Not sure about artists but audiophiles talking about music is usually lame.
:-0
:-) |
Ben__ Can you explain your point? Your statement is kinda ambiguous. |
Hey, can we redirect this post back to Beyonce and BBQ in Houston. It is much more tasty than Leonard and KY Jelly. |
Cohen's responses to questions re. the deep meaning behind his lines reminded me of Dylan being quizzed at some university on the deep meaning behind a line in his song "The man in the long B;ack Coat".
The song goes......
People don't live or die, people just float
she's gone with the man in the long black coat
Someone asked what exactly did he mean when he said "people don't live or die, people just float. ( a great line with huge BS potential).
His answer - " nothing, I just needed something that rhymed with coat"
I found his lack of BS very refreshing. Now, if Cohen had been asked that.......
Once someone starts marketing themselves as some kind of a prophet there will always be people who will find genius in the most meaningless semantics. |
I defer to Ben C.
'nuff said on the subject.
Marty |
Bonglfury
OK - Beyonce and KY Jelly
You have a point. |
Martykl
I appreciate your taking the time to explain even though I will never be convinced. Likewise, I know I could sit here praising the virtues of some great hip-hop and I know I will never manage to convert some people (not that this was your intention). There are horses for courses. I am glad that you are getting pleasure from something that I could possibly be missing though. Hey, you really should give that song a listen, the whole CD probably isn't up to his early stuff and I am left scratching my head why anybody would put it out. I would also be first to admit that I am not much of a poetry person (in spoken word) and that obviously colors my perception of the guy.
I could probably appreciate him more if he stuck to poetry and not music, or maybe music without the poetry.
I have tried in the past and I will again try to appreciate him but I hold about as much hope in that as Beyonce leaving her man for me. |
Cor blimey Thomas my old china, Beyonce might leave her man for you, especially if you talk the plummy Queen's English, after all did she not fancy Austin Powers?. Americans love an English accent. |
