As much as audio is a science it’s also an art, and the art is how the equipment ultimately matches with our tastes and unique hearing abilities that IMO cannot all be measured but must be experienced.
I agree with that to a point, that is why I don’t do this:
Then, we’re also able to glean that if the vast majority of reviewers and customers say that something exhibits the sound qualities we’re looking for it’s also worth exploring
I don’t waste my time with other’s subjective opinion. See above.
Sure, I might miss out on something but that is a possibility no matter if I filter by performance or by what other’s think. The difference is performance is a factual metric that can be compared, ranked, etc. Other people’s opinions are usually all over the board and are never based on the amp in my system in my room. I find their value less than marginal.
I don't have bat ears either... and I still like the sound of my 1986 Integra Tx-88 receiver, and love the sound of my little $600 Marantz nr1200 receiver, and ...
I'd bet the NAD is far from junk... maybe it ain't to one's taste, but it ain't junk.
I haven't heard the NAD M23 but I have owned and heard other Putzey designed amps, UCD, Ncore, and Purifi over the years. I have found that Ncore and Purifi are very similar with more refinement in the higher frequencies with Purifi. Neither really has "a sound". They are very neutral, by design.
The NAD is not junk just mid-fi. I have had some fun little NAD amps.
Many have tried and failed and some are just mediocre.
A high-performance Class D amplifier contradicts every single item of audiophile superstition. Designing one is the ultimate test to see if you’ve got your head screwed on right.
I don’t waste my time with other’s subjective opinion. Sure, I might miss out on something but that is a possibility no matter if I filter by performance or by what other’s think.
It’s you who’ve completely missed the point. Why use either measurements or subjective opinion to the complete exclusion of the other? By your own admission here both objective and subjective measurements can be wrong in terms of your own personal tastes/preferences so why would you use only one as your primary funnel? If they can both be wrong for your tastes, why not use both to help whittle down your options rather than using just one to identify your options? Using both together you’d be less likely to “miss out on something” or likewise avoid maybe wasting time auditioning something that measures well but doesn’t seem to exhibit sonic qualities that meet with your tastes. Initially use both together as indications rather than only one as an absolute is what I’m saying here. Neither is infallible, but both can offer very useful information IME.
I don’t use one or the other to the complete exclusion of the other. Like I said, I have fundamental requirements that must be met before I can even consider what an amp sounds like- why would I listen to a 2 watt SET when I need 500 watts? Why would I want an amp with a load dependent frequency response? Why would I waste time listening to an amp that has audible distortion products?
As I said, no matter how you choose, you can’t listen to them all and may miss something. That’s something we all must live with. At least I know that those that have been vetted will indeed work with my system requirements and are thus viable candidates.
Wow this is some thread, but I thought I'd put my 2 cents in anyways on NAD and the Hypex/Purifi modules they license and fashion for their amps... I've had the M22 V2 and the C298 in my office system and the latter was the better amp for "air" in the mids and highs and the former really great for bass/slam/dynamics etc. Definitely not "junk" just good value for money. Now have a CODA CSiB integrated (Class A/B, first 12 watts in Class A) in that system and it is clearly the better amp for my tastes.
@kuribothyname asked you if you owned the M23, you replied "No, I have heard it but do not own it". Hence my question about your take on the sound. Why the change in response to "I haven't heard the NAD M23 "? Whether or not you have heard other purify amps isn't of interest, you are focused on the M23 bench test results and responded that you heard it.
My apologies- what I meant to say was I have not heard the m23 in MY system. I heard it briefly at a friend's place. Sorry for the confusion. All the purifi and ncore amps I have heard and/or owned over the years have had a very similar character which as I said, wasn't a surprise.
The problem is that the acolytes of Amir and Gene listen with their eyes, not their ears.
That's a gross mischaracterization. They do objective reviews which are widely respected and appreciated.
Let’s be clear: it’s only a problem for those who either don’t find any value in measurements because they simply don’t understand them or don’t have the ability to understand that people are entitled to their own opinions. No need to insult those whose opinions differ.
Now have a CODA CSiB integrated (Class A/B, first 12 watts in Class A)
I owned a CODA amp many years ago that did the same thing- class A for the first 10 watts or so, then class A/B. I ended up replacing it with a Spectron Musician II class d amp.
People should really take a breath and refrain from fighting over hifi gizmos. There is enough strife out there to go around. Adults fighting over toys....do we really need that?
Only in the most superficial way...The spec wars of Japanese transistor amps were based on a false premise...The science and engineering has improved in the last 50 years. See:
"The other important trend in the 60’s was brought on by the usurpation of the role of the vacuum tube by the transistor. Japanese hifi firms hadn’t seen much success with their tube-based designs in the early 60’s.But with the advent of the transistor Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, Sherwood, Kenwood, and Sansui, all entered the US market with products whose specifications far exceeded those of US-made tube-based components. Of course 20-20 hindsight shows that these specifications used THD or total harmonic distortion figures rather than breaking down the harmonic distortion into 1st, 2nd, 3d, and 4th order harmonics. If they had, audiophiles would have seen how the distortion characteristics of early transistors were much worse at higher odd-order harmonics than tubes. Many audiophiles switched from tube electronics to solid-state electronics and discovered that the sonic results weren’t a step up in quality or enjoyment."
The preamplifier is the actual heart and brains of the system.
Almost every manufacturer recognizes this as a fact (PS Audio is not a subscriber to this) McIntosh, Pass Labs, Lab 12, EMM, Raven Audio, AGD, NAD, Audio Hungary, LTA, Simaudio, A-S, Rogue, on and on.
Also it is interesting that the majority of owners of separates utilizing Class D power amplification are using Tubed Preamplifiers like LTA, A-S, AR, SUPRATEK. Quick Silver, on and on.
So Mark is behind the success and makes Bruno's module sound good.
Just saying and pointing this out.
Have a good evening.
Bruno designed the amp module which is the heart of the amplifier.
Also it is interesting that the majority of owners of separates utilizing Class D power amplification are using Tubed Preamplifiers like LTA, A-S, AR, SUPRATEK. Quick Silver, on and on.
How do you know that the majority of class d amp users using a preamp are using tubed preamplifiers? No doubt many do, without question, but I don’t see how you can make this claim. Lots of people like the kind of distortion put out by many types of tube amps/preamps and feel the need to add such. Others choose class d because of lack of such distortion and the last thing they want to do is add something they are trying to get away from.
So Mark is behind the success and makes Bruno’s module sound good.
That’s certainly one way to look at it. I tend to look at it differently.
Speaking for myself, it's all about what I hear. Usually, I already know the price. But not always. The "specs" doesn't really matter.
Many would agree with you about "specs" not mattering to them. Many others feel differently. Whatever works for you. Sadly, there are many small minded people who can't accept that their opinions on the matter are unimportant to a great many.
A manufacture that prints less than or poor specs is either brutally honest and or lacking marketing savvy.
Or maybe they believe all those who say "specs don't matter."
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