I had some experience with Pioneer receivers back in the early 1970s and found them to be rather hard and bright, not even in comparison to other highly regarded SS receivers. The Marantz receivers never sounded bright to me but rather warm and musical. By the late 1970s, Yamaha and Sherwood produced low wattage (16 to 35 watt) receivers that can still top those all in one receivers sound today. Yet, the higher the wattage, the worst/less musical those receivers sounded (and I tried dozens of them). My favorites are the Sherwood 7100 and Yamaha CR620. I still use the CR620 for my video setups and they can easily musically power big Legacy Focus speakers. I would definitely give the Pioneer 100 hours or more to break in the news parts, especially the caps. There could be a myriad of other reasons why it sounds bright and not related to the receiver.
My stereo receiver is a little too bright. Can a cable help me out?
I just had my vintage Pioneer SX-1050 refurbished. I had a severe case of sticker shock when presented with the bill - oops!! Which unfortunately pretty much forces me to use it.
I will say It is sounding very powerful which is no big surprise because there is a lot of horsepower under the hood. But the audio impression is that it’s also a little too bright. The only way I know to tame brightness is with the right interconnects. But I’m not experienced in that area. Recommendations would be most welcome.
It’s probably important to know how I am using the Pioneer SX-1050. It is responsible for all audio in my TV system. My choice of music is almost exclusively opera and classical.
I send the HDMI signal from my four sources ( TV-DVR, OPPO DVD, ROKU streamer and Pioneer Elite Laser Disc Player ) to my AVR, an ARCAM SR-250, and I send the respective analog audio signals to the Pioneer. I am into opera and classical music and I didn’t think my ARCAM AVR sounded as good as I wanted it to, even though it’s ideally suited to my needs, a two-channel product touted for its exceptional audio. The audio is good but definitely not great. Prior to deciding to refurbish it I had paired the Pioneer with a Musical Fidelity A3cr Preamp, using the Pioneer just as an amplifier, and I was getting very good audio that way. But one of the goals of the refurbishment project was to feature the Pioneer and eliminate the musical influence of the Musical Fidelity preamp. And now, after spending so much, I wanted to hear how my now very expensive Pioneer sounded, so I pulled the Musical Fidelity Pre and attached my sources directly to the Pioneer. Currently all the interconnects are Blue Jeans Cable. Obviously I can’t spend huge amounts replacing cables for all four sources, so the DVD is priority.
I will say It is sounding very powerful which is no big surprise because there is a lot of horsepower under the hood. But the audio impression is that it’s also a little too bright. The only way I know to tame brightness is with the right interconnects. But I’m not experienced in that area. Recommendations would be most welcome.
It’s probably important to know how I am using the Pioneer SX-1050. It is responsible for all audio in my TV system. My choice of music is almost exclusively opera and classical.
I send the HDMI signal from my four sources ( TV-DVR, OPPO DVD, ROKU streamer and Pioneer Elite Laser Disc Player ) to my AVR, an ARCAM SR-250, and I send the respective analog audio signals to the Pioneer. I am into opera and classical music and I didn’t think my ARCAM AVR sounded as good as I wanted it to, even though it’s ideally suited to my needs, a two-channel product touted for its exceptional audio. The audio is good but definitely not great. Prior to deciding to refurbish it I had paired the Pioneer with a Musical Fidelity A3cr Preamp, using the Pioneer just as an amplifier, and I was getting very good audio that way. But one of the goals of the refurbishment project was to feature the Pioneer and eliminate the musical influence of the Musical Fidelity preamp. And now, after spending so much, I wanted to hear how my now very expensive Pioneer sounded, so I pulled the Musical Fidelity Pre and attached my sources directly to the Pioneer. Currently all the interconnects are Blue Jeans Cable. Obviously I can’t spend huge amounts replacing cables for all four sources, so the DVD is priority.
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That is one of the best receivers of that era. It should sound full, fast and sweet. Not bright. What speakers? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have floor standing Spendor FL-6 speakers. i recently had the big woofers refoamed and also repaired the binding posts, so they are good to go for another 20 years I hope. Here’s a quote from one review on these Spendors: The Spendors are beautiful, furniture quality speakers that are just very pleasing to listen to. Vocals sound fantastic, detail is good, soundstage is better than the B&W. I wish they had more bass, but overall I am pleased. I'll give them a 4 out of 5 for sound, 5/5 for WAF. |
I would definitely give the Pioneer 100 hours or more to break in the news parts, especially the caps. There could be a myriad of other reasons why it sounds bright and not related to the receiver. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I was a little dismayed that you heard the Pioneer receivers as “hard” and “bright” and maybe that’s what I am hearing too. But I will definitely be taking time at breaking them in and hoping for the best. Whatever they sounded like when I bought them are decades gone out of my memory, so here’s hoping the new parts will make some difference on the positive side, so I will hope for the best. |
I had a similar problem which drove me nearly to selling my amps (Bryston) & speakers (PMC) and starting over with a completely different combination. Expensive interconnects and power cords wrought no worthwhile improvements, though I didn't go as far as what would have been the biggest outlay of all, namely a complete new set of (non-returnable) speaker cables. Eventually, though, I did find a remedy. Assuming your speakers have separate terminals just for their tweeters, the cheapest solution by far is to insert a pair of 10w fixed value cement resistors in series. Finding the correct impedance value is a matter of trial and error. I started with something like 0.2 ohms (way too low) and, pair by pair, worked my way up from there until I found just the right value. Too high a value robs the sound of top end air, openness and sparkle but, after a few months, I finally settled on 1.5 ohms (which took a bit of finding) and haven't looked back. I did try a pair of variable resistors that I had knocking about but they were very cheap ones, of commensurately low quality and definitely had a negative effect on transparency. Not being in the trade, I just couldn't seem to find a pair of high quality variable resistors, so I abandoned that path and stuck with fixed value ones. The right impedance value for your system and your tastes will, of course, be personal to you but, given that a pair of 10w cement resistors costs just a couple of pounds (or dollars), the expense is minimal and the experimentation process, with each new pair getting you a step closer to the result you want, is quite enjoyable. |
The smallest receivers and integrateds from all the lines tended to be the best sounding. Luxman, Yamaha, pioneer, you name it, the smallest lowest powered are easily the best sounding. Less is more. The big clue (back in the day) was in the Bryston line up, the original one. The circuit was the same across the three amplifiers, but scaled. 2b, 3b, 4b. 60w/120w/200w. the 2b was always the best sounding. Less parts, less circuitry, less damage to the signal. Less is more. Part of the secret of tube circuits - they have a low parts count by their very nature (part of the story only, but definitely important). Then, some companies made maximum versions of simple circuits. Some of the more modern integrateds are similar to that. If you see a big impressive box with what looks like a cool pile of a near thousand parts, tons of circuit boards, with tiny tiny parts by the hundreds per board... then it is probably (almost certainly) going to be ’not so good’. Even if it is $10k. And the AVRs? Almost a 100% chance they are at the bottom of the sound quality pile. 500watt 100 pound 80 transistor monoblock? Sonically? In comparison to the sonic quality of a 20 watt el84 tube amp? Somewhere near a 100% chance the giant monoblock is a sonic dog in comparison. No one wants to hear that, even it if is true. The standard ’pick any two’ scenario(sound quality/wattage/price). The fight to try and get all three, is where we all sit. With the right kind of mind and the right kind of design, we can get pretty darned close to having a functional three. Or at least find a compromise that works for us individually. Individual tastes and individually built up hearing and self wiring of our hearing.... can convince the given individual... that this basic recipe has somehow been violated in their favor... or that the recipe and known parameters of the quandary are not true. But it is true, this given audio quality quandary of all things not being available -at all times in all ways. A personal fit for one self wired (we wire our own hearing as we grow into it) individual is not a perfect fit for others. I’ve torn down and rebuilt/repaired/re-thought somewhat more than 500 and less than a thousand pieces of high quality audio gear, over the years. Many of them, in step by step single cause analysis procedure and mind, while listening. With an ear and mind that grew more and more informed and capable, day by day. Feverish OCD of the highest order. The end result is... I’d call mine a seemingly well informed opinion. |
People, in general, are forced to see the audio unit as a single digit black box. The reality is that the simplest audio gear is a black box alright but with 100 ins..and 100 outs. For the average person, those 100 I/O factors....are each nebulous unknowns. Things unseen and unknown. Sum total singular in and sum total singular out...is all that is ever witnessed. A misidentified idealized singular black box. Major disconnect. The entire forum and the endeavor itself is based on attempting to navigate this major disconnect. |
The hack speaks. The hack... is only interested in following around and attacking -- just a few posters. the same, over and over. In this incarnation and in the prior two incarnations. The attempt is always the same. To twist any and all words to try and shape an attack. No matter how feeble. The hack cares not for the forum. The hack cares not for audio's uptick. The hack cares not for the people on the forum. The hack cares not for the website's health and future. All these things are damaged by the incessant obsession. The hack cares only for the attack. Psychiatric help is advised. |
I am not "average", I am Superhuman!! My words have far more value than anyone else's! This post is a blatant attack on so many people on this forum if not most people. It may come as a surprise that there are many of us that have been designing audio products, testing, listening, for decades. We just don't fool ourselves into thinking we are infallible hence we also use the best technology at our personal disposal to correlate repeatable measurements to listening experiences, and we ask others to listen and give us their feedback and again we try to correlate to more repeatable methods. We understand that everyone has personal preferences too. What some may call warm, others may call colored. But the most universally respected in this "hobby" don't claim "superiority". They are the most likely to admit their own limitations.
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audiozenology"I am not "average", I am Superhuman!! My words have far more value than anyone else's!" This forum belongs to all not just you. |
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https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9ii84-yaqin-sd-cd3-tube-buffer-sdcd3-21929-tube It can insert between the pre-out / amp-in or tape loop to soften the highs (less sibilance) and bring out the mids. |
teo_audio1,306 posts12-29-2019 6:08amThe smallest receivers and integrateds from all the lines tended to be the best sounding. Luxman, Yamaha, pioneer, you name it, the smallest lowest powered are easily the best sounding. Less is more. I haven't posted a lot on any of the Forums, but did offer an opinion or two (quite lengthy) about a "Bright cable issue". I certainly enjoyed your commentary. I found it informative and rather eloquently presented. I've enjoyed music, most of my life. The camaraderie, in search of the "right sound for ME", is a never ending process, It's a little sad to see some of the things posted here with such a brazen disregard for others. Lots of loose innuendos, bordering almost on insult. I'm glad YOU rose above most of it. Maybe, I learned more than I thought, and not just about the "STEREO". Jealousy always seeks unkind words. Thank YOU! for reminding me of that, and NOT taking the rather NASTY bait. I've always tried to be a lite spirited, jovial fella, this can be a tough crowd sometimes. As for the "It's bright" issue, you can't turn the HIGHS UP if there is no signal to turn up. If the unit was restored properly, you can always use the tone control to turn it DOWN. I think most of what your hearing is sonic restoration, and a need to let the new parts settle in a bit. 100+ hours not uncommon AT ALL for some caps (teflons ect) to really start sounding better and 300+ to sound GOOD. AS long as it's not a LACK of mid or bass, making the high's brighter. So if the signal caps were replaced and the Power supply caps (passed inspection) but not replaced. Can cause what seems to be a BRIGHT system. I'm a Mac guy old or new, I just love the gear', I've really learned to like the new Class D amps and the ability to roll op-amps. That coupled with a fresh C20 and great speakers. ZERO floor noise. Quietest I've EVER HAD it. They run cooler than my SS Mac, Pass, Krell, Mark Ls, ALL of them. Just amazing tonality. I couple them with VTL, and Mac tube gear, all the time, just wonderful. Regards |
Hello, Some great advice on this thread! I would like to share an experience I had with an old Theta DAC (Pro Basic III). The Theta was very aggressive, bright and in your face hyperactive, at least in my system and in my perception. I was using Kimber Silver Streak IC's that I feel were not a good match with the Theta. To remedy the problem I purchased an entry level Cardas IC, it completely remedied the problems I was perceiving, it completely calmed the Theta down with a much more relaxed presentation without giving up on resolution. I am one who appreciates symmetry, in other words, using the same IC's throughout as I do today. However in this instance, switching out an interconnect with another led to a very positive experience. Good luck and take into consideration all of the suggestions. I am pretty new to this Hobby/Passion and most likely not as knowledgeable as others, but at least I can share this experience with you. |
A pair of fixed value cement resistors, in series with the input terminals to your tweeters (assuming your speakers have separate terminals just for their tweeters), is likely to be the best solution, primarily because they're almost certainly considerably more transparent than the tone controls fitted to a unit built 20+ years ago. Some experimentation will be required to find the correct value, but cement resistors are so cheap that it'll hardly matter. Changing your speaker cables might do the trick, but two wrongs won't make a right. |
