My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
I have the same cover plates and man the difference is significant. The level of detail and nuances at very low volumes is great plus I’m getting a lot more bass....I don’t understand how that is possible but it is all there.
I'm pissed I didn't do this before but I think the journey is what is fun to me. I wouldn't appreciate the outlets as much had I not been using stock outlets for quite sometime. This is what makes me happier.
I am going to give away my Audioquest NRG outlet. the MSRP on this unit is $179 dollars. What needs to happen?
We need to hit 8k subscribers (so i encourage you all to spread this on the multiple sites you frequent and encourage for others to subscribe). As soon as we hit 8k subscribers, you will email me at jayaudiolab@gmail. The 12th email i receive will be the winner.
Now commercials? You need US to Spread this giveaway on multiple sites ? Trolling for viewers now ? Now with bribes and giveaways ? Why not take it to YouTube or FB where it would be more appropriate? Or buy more affordable gear.
Last day of the year. It’s been a long journey but what is interesting is that I feel I have brought in less components than previous years because I’m trying to live with things longer in order to evaluate them better. Next month, a component leaves my room and gets replaced. I have enjoyed my time with it but I feel that it has lived here long enough and have nothing else to learn from it.
Thank you all for the support (including the haters). It’s not easy to do what I do (outside of the financial investment). It requires so much time, physical and mental effort plus hours on the phone with all my sources in order to locate my next component. Happy 2022 in advance to you all!
My apologies to Jay for my somewhat harsh post. I was not dissing the thread or Jays contribution , just the last couple of posts seemed gimmicky, from my perspective, but I’m not the one who’s working hard to build up a channel. It was early and before coffee.. I respectfully apologize.
The Essence stayed on your list. Not that $25k is cheap, but in the waters you play in it really says something. I forget, but at 45 wpc and you saying it is more like 150 wpc, sounds like it could work with most speakers?
Thank you very much for all of your efforts Jay! Bravo!
I am not surprised by any category. However, I forget if you have talked about the comparison between your VAC monos VS the Gryphon monos. Would like to know the differences between ultimate tubes vs transistors. I remember in some of your videos the VACs do sound the best I have ever heard. Same goes for the pre-amp. I forgot if you have talked about Soulution vs Gryphon vs VACs in the pre-amp field. Lastly, it seems no "streamer/DAC" category. Don't know if you don't want to talk about the DACs or you have forgotten.
Nitpicking aside, incredible journey and efforts! Wish you could test more great stuff and find more sponsors! Happy listening.
I haven't compared to the Mephistos to my vac 450iq but that will be a great shootout for 2022. Full vac set up versus full solid state. Who will win? No idea...
From Jay's comments, some listening by me to Jay's VAC videos, it seems like VAC is still warm tubey sound. The ultimate for tube technology is probably Atmasphere (Ralph Karsten) products, possessing the highest clarity for tubes. In a VAC vs 725 + Mephisto Mono comparison, we all know what to expect, but Atmasphere vs Mephisto would represent the most informative comparison. Acquiring Atmasphere at an attractive price is probably difficult, however.
Seems like no one has much love for CAT these days?? In a recent shoot out with BAT, the CAT combo was the easy winner. I suspect it would be against VAC as well!
It is 2022 and my first evaluation has to do with a cable brand that is QUITE affordable. Each powercord is only about $1,000 versus $9800 for a shunyata Omega or $6,000 for a transparent opus. I have a full loom of this cable brand in order to seek maximum synergy.
Jay, you know the majority of your followers will never spend $1K on cords. I built my own powers cords and assembled my own speaker cables, but I use Morrow Audio IC Cables, and find them quite transparent. Look, I agree that the greater the gear, we are introduced to the information on our recordings, better than before. However, listening to sound, vs. music, is a different thing, and something I do not get here on this thread. No offense Jay, but you know it is true. You use the music, to get you to the sound, you are looking for ( whatever that might be ). There is something to be said about the classical music viber and a few others here listen to and enjoy ( besides the playing, performing and arranging ). Classical music generally does not employ over dubbing, which is a major elimination of garbage in recordings. A favorite " listen to of mine ", which brings me total enjoyment and engagement, is " A Tribute to Jack Johnson ", by the genius Miles Davis ( 1992 edition ). Of course, everyone knows " Kind of Blue ", and if they do not, they are missing out on an outstanding and historical piece of recorded history. But, as an aside, it is " ATTJJ ", that is, imo, his most standout " arrangement ", recorded in 1 take ( actually 2, as there are 2 compositions ), without over dubbing ( of course, eq, compression, etc., are used, but adds to the fact, that ime, this recording will tell you what your system is capable of. If I had hair on my back, it would be standing up, every time I play it. And when you listen to it, you do not think, bass, treble, nor other audiophile terms. If your system is good / great, it should let you forget about all of that, and listen, TO THE MUSIC, the musicians " PLAYING ", not the sounds. If I have this all wrong, I apologize. But, this is how I see things. I wish everyone a better 2022, than the past year or 2 we all have experienced, and admittedly, not everyone was impacted in the same way / ways. I believe my point was just made on this last video of yours. Listening to cables, instead of the music playing. Regards, MrD.
Adding to mrdecibel's comments, things like Nordost cables reveal all freq better as the overall design approach is clarity, so the complete tone of any instrument is better revealed. HF's are more apparent, but so is the rest of the freq range. Perhaps the same can be said of the Furutech outlets in improving everything. The music is served. The conventional a-phile notion that "musical" means reducing unpleasantness by rolling off HF is incorrect. True musicality means revealing more information in all freq ranges which serves better appreciation of the music from more insightful information delivery.
You make interesting points but you also didn’t take into consideration that my thread has NEVER been about the music?
My entire journey has been about the equipment and their sonic attributes. The music or tracks I use are "tools" for me to evaluate these cables or electronics.
If I were simply looking to listen to music without a analyzing things then d’d bring out my full vac system and be done.
Solid state components are many times "measuring devices" utilized to see how good or bad a recording is. Tube gear is really a different path that doesn’t quite punish you for poor recordings.
I’m quite excited to hear my full vac system for the first time ever (yep, I haven’t heard my vac amp and preamp at all because the Mephisto have kept me busy analyzing things)
Jay yes, I know it was never about the music for you. Part of me feels badly for you, as connecting with the musicians, as I do, is what it is all about, and I feel you are missing a lot ( maybe not ). As a reminder to you and others, I do not use tubes anywhere in my system ( this with horns ). For me, the use of tubes make too many compromises on " what I want " my system to do for me. As I have said before, I do respect your mission and congratulate what you have done. I suppose cars could be a good analogy ( one you have made ). For me, the car would be an experience for the drive ( ride ). For you, it would be for the car itself; the build, the technology, etc. ( I am thinking so ). Please, check out Tribute to Jack Johnson ( friends and colleagues of mine have streamed it, so I know it is available to you ). Enjoy !
Happy new year everyone. Another great year of reading this thread. Glad to see some VAC gear coming into the mix in 2022. Would love to see how the repurchased Simaudio 860v2 pairs with the VAC preamp. Seems like a good "mid priced" combo.
@grey9hound Yes, for me, it is always, and has always been, about the music......the " playing ". Every component, wire, tube etc., has a sound. However, so do our recordings, as they all go through some form of electronic manipulation, starting with the mic / mixing console ( as I have stated ad nauseam ). I will check out the Deathwish soundtrack ( TY ), however, Headhunter is a standout for me. You mention John M on JJ, as I agree of his guitar work.....but Miles and the others, inclusive of Herbie ( when he enters at a later point ) are all 1st rate. I honestly do not understand how the music would not be the passion for everyone in our hobby, but, to each his / her own. Enjoy !
Audio experience is related to exploring many piece of gear, but OPTIMAL S.Q. experience is related to ONE CHOSEN system by one pair of specific ears in a specific room....
Jay bought 343 amplifiers , then his goal is Audio experience, and advise consumers...
He cannot work acoustic and psycho-acoustic for many months with only one audio chosen system...It take me more than a year of everyday listening experiments to learn how to embed avoustically, mechanically and electrically all my gear...
His youtube channel is about audio experience comparisons not about optimization of ONE system....
Like he said he uses sound/music files he knows well like a tool to compare hundred of pieces of gear...
I used music timbre listening experiments to optimize my own system....
I cannot criticized him on the basis of my experience...
This will not be fair and this will be erroneous...The right arguments for sure but on the wrong target...
it is easy to criticize someone... Take his shoes and walk with them before ....
Well... My system sounds like straight GARBAGE since Saturday... The furutech outlet sound TERRIBLE... They sounded amazing for about two hours when I installed them but afterwards I thought I had broken something... No air, VERY DRY SOUND.... Bass is lacking body and it's quite tough to sit through things. I'll have to endure the 500 plus hours of break in... Maybe it's time to do more videos about some components.
I have experienced what you describe, and I conclude it was due to bad power quality at the time. The next day or so, the problem goes away. I don't have special outlets. The odds are that after you break in the Furutech outlets and their accoutrements, whatever the new F sound is, it will still change unpredictably due to bad power quality.
The cool violin parts at the beginning and then later in the song, "Do a Thing" are an example of 12 tone music. By 1900, classical music had explored all the pleasing chords like octaves, thirds, fifths, sixths, and pleasing dance rhythms like the waltz. These patterns fit common pleasurable emotions and had clear, simple mathematical correlates. After 1900, composers wanted to do something different. The academics were pleased, but the average music lover couldn't take the harsh, illogical dissonances. Here is a good video explaining this. Early 20th century composers like Schoenberg, Berg, Webern followed this new style. You might like it.
I haven't tried the Furutech NCF outlets, but the rhodium and gold varieties only had negative consequences on sound in my experience.
I used the gold for many years without questioning and comparing.... and something was always off with my system(s).
I switched to cryo'd Hubbell hospital 20A outlets and the improvement was marked. The proper balance of frequencies and tone was back.
I also used Audioquest Edison and Audience Hidden Treasure (made by Cardas) for awhile but both did things to the sound and altered the tone too much for my liking. There were positive attributes to them, however. Assuming that the power from one's panel has a inherent "sound" and that this could differ from system to system, maybe these outlets will work in some systems.
The only outlet I'm curious about is the Shunyata CopperConn but it's unclear if they are still offering them for sale. Plus they cost as much as 8 or 10 Hubbells that I'm using.
Jay, do not worry about the Furutech outlets. You are experiencing the impact of the burn-in process. I had the same issues when I installed these in my system. Patience is in order here, but you will be a happy camper in a few weeks.
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