I bet it is the Essence, not Mephisto:))
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
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I think the reason you dont find many Gryphon amps on the used market is because most people cant afford them to begin with. Its on par that way with DAG/Constellation/Boulder etc. The DIABLO which is affordable you can find for sale on a regular basis. Thats the only thing I would disagree with (respectfully) from your awesome Vid. People arent keeping them as much as they arent buying them en masse like Pass/Luxman etc. Great Job Jay! |
Nice discussion of the G Essence. It seems to be among the very best balanced combination of everything you like. So how about trying the 725 with it again, now that the 725 is broken in and you are used to that? Inna and I thought the G Essence monos were significantly better than the stereo--still not too crazy expensive. If you have an efficient speaker like the XLF, the low powered amp will have enough power, and more quality and accuracy than the higher powered amp of the line. For example, every higher powered Bryston I've tried is mediocre, but my lower power Bryston 2.5B SST2 is the most accurate amp I have heard. Higher power requires more transistors and circuitry which lead to risk of mismatches and consequently more distortion, even if the specs don't tell. So don't fall for a G Essence 150 watter just yet. |
Jay, I wasn't comparing Bryston to Gryphon. I implied that both companies illustrate that quality of sound is more important than quantity of power. Yes, higher power Bryston is truly mediocre for quality--agree. But since you have not heard the low power Bryston 2.5B SST2, you can't comment on that. Pass is another company whose low power amps are more accurate than higher power amps, although I base this statement only on reviews I have read. Years ago, Steve brought over the Luxman M600A, a 30 watt class A amp, 60 at 4 ohms, 120 at 2 ohms, 240 at 1 ohm--high quality. After a month of listening, I thought It was reasonably accurate, not euphonic the way the M900u amp has been described, although I never heard the latter. Up until now, you have believed that high power is a must for quality. Your assessment of the G Essence is a milestone for you, showing that quality is what is more important. If a company uses the same high quality standard for parts in their low power and higher power amps, then the low power amp with the fewest number of parts and shortest signal path will have more purity and lower distortion. Higher power is only needed for relatively inefficient speakers and for certain loud music. Mephisto is a different design for a higher standard of accuracy, so its higher power than Essence is like comparing apples to oranges. Yet its 175 watts sounds as powerful as much higher power amps. Perhaps its supreme accuracy and revelatory qualities allow it to have more impact and startle factor than would be predicted from its medium power. I probably would find the Mephisto the best of the Gryphons at present. |
I highly doubt a small Bryston could adequately drive the Alexandria XLF. There is no such thing as an easy Wilson speaker to drive. It’s relative. 50w pure class A with Gryphon power reserves, as Essence is, is not really "low power" I wouldn’t lump other truly low power amps in that camp with Gryphon Essence, even if it has lower drive than other massive Gryphon amps |
My Bryston 2.5B SST2 is rated 135 watts/ch into 8 ohms, 180 into 4. Its power supply is weak, and a tech told me privately it does 90 into 2, and I estimated from my tests about 40 into 1. Still, on chamber music at 75 dB, it has enough power driving my 75 dB efficient electrostatic speakers. Its purity/quality is supreme for this music, but I am searching for a higher power amp for more dynamic music. My Mytek Brooklyn Amp does 300 watts into any load, and I can play most any music I enjoy. On its way is the Rouge Audio IceEdge 1200 AS1, a 600/1200 watt stereo, which I will report on. The XLF is 92 dB efficient. Most of the songs Jay has played are not very dynamic. At 82 dB, he is using a fraction of 1 watt. It would be great if he tried Pass First Watt amps. Nelson Pass has said that an amp's quality at very low power is most critical, and I agree. There are different First Watt models with different sonic signatures, and I believe Jay would have a good time with some of these. They are very cheap, and could do well on the XLF with lots of music. |
No, I disagree. Those inexpensive amps (bryston, Mytek, first watt) do not have nearly robust enough power supplies and capacitance reserves to handle the demands on xlf on difficult and loud passages. Just look at the stats you quoted for your amp - not impressive in the “doubling at successive halving of impedance” metric, to say the least (no offense, but this thread isn’t about lower quality equipment). Sure they’ll cause sound to emerge from the xlf’s, and perhaps even loud sound. But it won’t be adequate for what the speaker is capable of. It will be woefully lacking |
One key characteristic of the XLF is that i don't think I've heard (or don't recall hearing) in past speakers is how it does not spread its wings with insufficient power or overhead. Do you all see that tweeter mounted on the rear? Think of it as an indication of WHEN the partnering amp has enough juice to make it come to life. If there is enough juice and drive and overhead then you hear the sound travel behind the speaker and also over your head but when there isn't enough then that tweeter feels as if it doesn't even turn on. |
That’s because for the most part you’ve been on an upward amp trajectory and left behind the weak amps so long ago you probably don’t remember. But for sure if you’d have used weak amps (like the ones Viber talking about or others) on Sasha DAW (or comparable) you’d have heard the lack of overhead too at realistic volumes. There was one point in last year you had an inexpensive Mc integrated, lower power hybrid. I’m sure when you played that on DAW (or whatever you had then) the lack of headroom would have been very noticeable |
Missing in the last few posts is a quantitative appreciation of what different music demands. On the big end of the dynamic scale, the 92 dB efficient XLF at comfortable 110 dB peaks requires only 100 watts to control all the drivers. Allow for a factor of 5 to get plenty of headroom--you get 500 watts to produce controlled 110 dB, and 50 watts for 100 dB. That explains how Jay found that the G Essence's quality 50 watts/8 ohms or 100 watts/4 or 200 watts/2 is plenty of quality power to satisfy anyone in a room his size. The XLF may dip into about 2-3 ohms at low freq, where the doubling of power capability with each halving of impedance load is an advantage of the G amps. So I agree that my Bryston with its poor power supply would be at a disadvantage for loud music compared to any of the Gryphons. That's why I am looking for a higher power amp for my 75 dB speakers that still provides the clarity of my Bryston at low levels. Still, my Bryston puts out 180 watts into 4, and 90 into 2 ohms. Divide 90 by 5, so at 18 watts it could produce quality 100 dB from the XLF in the bass, with the 90 watts providing plenty of headroom. On the other hand, subtle details of spaciousness, airiness are heard at 20-40 dB. When you enjoy loud dynamic sections of the music, you aren't listening to low level details, which are drowned out by the loudness. That's why many class AB amps sound good. They may provide pure class A up to 5 watts, and class AB or B at higher power. Louder music is enjoyable in class AB or B, because you aren't hearing and don't need the low level purity of class A. On the XLF, 20 to 40 dB requires a mere 10 to the minus 7, to 10 to the minus 5 of 1 watt, or 0.1 microwatts for 20 dB, and 10 microwatts for 40 dB. That is an illustration of what Nelson Pass says about the importance of the first watt. There are many amps that double in power capability with every halving of impedance load, and some all the way down to 1 ohm, but that is merely one of many specifications that don't directly correlate with sound quality. An audio system is not a car which is judged by the power of its engine. Even for a car, the many aspects of its handling are determined by more design factors than the power of the engine. |
i won’t get into a back and forth with regards to amplifier design. I have done the listening tests which are pretty telling when it comes to who is the better amplifier. I am also no trying to downplay Bryston’s amplifier circuitry since i am no engineer. I simply feel that they have been left behind by many other brands. I do believe that there is an amp manufacturer that is charging an arm and a leg for amplifiers that are NOT performing at the level of its peers. i won’t go into details as to WHO that is, but just know that there is such a thing and this is WHY sticking to amplifier brands that are proven and which have been out in the field performing is REALLY important. To piggyback on RIAA’s point, most people want to buy Kobe beef at pork skin prices, most people want to steal Gryphon amps at Parasound price. It aint happening (i have tried for years and waited like 2 years to finally get my first Gryphon amp - Collosseum). Gryphon amps are not like pass labs or mcintosh where you know that you will see another amp the day or the week after. You will see one Gryphon amp listed once and then once it is gone, it takes months or years before you see another one listed. I don’t have to tell you this, i am sure you all know this. |
One factor I forgot to consider is that loud bass requires more than 100 dB SPL's, due to human ear sensitivity at various freq. In the midrange and HF, sustained 100 dB is almost painfully loud, but in the bass, 100 dB is not that loud. So for realistic levels for deep bass music, Jay and Kren are right that high power from amps with excellent power supplies is best. For other music without much deep bass, and especially for music at moderate SPL's, and for appreciating low level detail, the quality of an amp is much more important than quantity of power. It is interesting that Jay found that the moderate power G Essence gives better overall results than the higher power Antileon, unless someone really wants the relatively euphonic sound of the Antileon. |
You just heard the antileon Evo with Soulution 725. You can easily pick up the inferiority of the recordings from the 80s. Yes, i was honest as far as my music preferences. I don’t sit here blasting dire straits, Dayana Krall, etc. Those are recordings i use to assess the potential of my system ,but they don’t do anything for me when it comes to my soul. |
Excellent clarity on all the songs with the 725 even with the dark Antileon (relative to Essence) and the euphonic Constellation. Let's hear the 725 with Essence. The 725 is likely much clearer than your other preamps, so it takes getting used to. Probably you would like the 725 + Essence much more than you did before. Accept the more processed 80's songs, as long as you like the music. Superior resolution and lack of coloration of the 725 enables appreciation of the good qualities of each recording. The flaws can be ignored. |
I’m working on the other components that have been here for a week now. I need another week or two before i begin to transition into new electronics and something else as well that is getting tuned for me right now. A welcomed vacation is coming for me as well. It’s time to step away from the system for a week to let my ears reset. I’m a huge believer that time away from the system is just as important. Right now, I’m taking 2 consecutive days off from the gym during the week and now that I’m in my 40s, i have discovered that it helps my joints BIG time to step away from the gym every few weeks or else i get tons of joint pain. MRI said i have FOUR herniated discs and the doctor doesn’t understand why I’m still able to be mobile other than perhaps because of the muscle mass. Doctors can be confusing as hell by the way. I got one doctor who tells me to quit the gym and that will help me a ton with the back issues because i won’t be pounding my joints and another doctor that said for me to NOT quit the gym because the muscles are protecting me from "falling apart". Then i considered back surgery and one doctor said " do it NOW" that you are young, strong, athletic and your recovery time will be faster than most people who don’t work out and then the other doctor said " don’t do anything unless you are miserable. Surgery is your last resort". This sounds as confusing as when you talk to multiple dealers about a particular brand 😂 |
Medical scams are as prevalent as high priced audio scams. Take it from me--I'm in the medical field and have been through the audio scams as well. Everyone wants to make money at what they sell. The honest way to make money is to have the patient's interest foremost, earn their trust, and then attract more patients based on this record. First, get the proper diagnosis. Just because the MRI shows herniated discs doesn't mean that the anatomic findings correlate with your pain or other symptoms. (Sounds familiar--specs on the amp don't have a strict correlation with sound quality). To establish correlation, see a neurologist, do the nerve conduction velocity and other tests, to see if the abnormalities in the nerve tests correspond to the specific herniated disc. You have FOUR herniated discs, so how does any doctor know which disc(s) should get surgery? DO THE NERVE TESTS. In the old days, a great neurologist would do a careful exam, and establish the correlation without doing the tests. Today, they do the tests to make more money, although also to more firmly establish the correlation for legal reasons. The only time surgery for herniated discs is absolutely necessary is if the nerve to the muscle is being pinched and then the muscle is atrophied. You have to restore strength to the muscle, so you do the surgery. In the appropriate cases, surgery is dramatically successful and worth the risks. But the risks are obvious--inadvertent collateral damage, scar tissue years later, etc. Maintaining muscle strength is important, but it can be done at my moderate level of routine fitness. At your advanced level, you are pushing the envelope and risk further injury. If it is established that the herniated discs are the root cause of your symptoms, there are alternatives to surgery. First, lose a little weight. I study your body as carefully as I listen to your videos. You are well built, but your veins don't show as prominently as compared to pro body builders in the magazines. So I estimate you could lose about 20 lbs of fat. Do the body fat analysis at the gym or with a body fat scale you can buy at Bed Bath Beyond, etc. The goal is 15% for the non athlete or 10% for the advanced body builder. Second, talk to the orthopedist/sports medicine guy/surgeon about inversion tables. The table straps you in so you can "stand on your head" which takes the weight off the herniated discs. Over time, people with routine back pain feel better, but I don't have much experience with people with herniated discs. Lately, there are commercials for tryTeeter.com. It is worth seeing holistic MD's or DO's about prolotherapy, platelet rich plasma, stem cells for healing. Get Dr. David Brownstein's book on "Ozone: The Miracle Therapy." I met Brownstein in 2008. He has a chapter on orthopedics and has used ozone to treat several problems ranging from routine back pain to herniated discs. He practices in Michigan. You can see him on youtube. Maybe you will be attracted to smaller lighter amps, like my IceEdge which is arriving Mon. Sometimes I think that you like heavy amps because they help build your muscles! |
Jay, I can't thank you enough for your posts here and for your awesome YouTube videos. I bookmarked your YouTube channel a few days ago. I like your enthusiasm as well as your words of caution about system matching and symmetry, etc. Too many audio reviewers sugar coat everything without being honest about how a component might not work in some systems, but I feel like I can trust you to give helpful advice. Regarding back pain, I agree with viber61 about the benefits of using inversion tables for some people. Until last year, I had lower back pain off and on that varied from minor to such severity that I had to crawl on the floor to get around the house. I have used a Teeter inversion table for the past 12 years and it worked every time to eliminate or substantially reduce back pain. Two or three minutes at full vertical on the Teeter table is all it takes for instant relief of my back pain. One of the advantages of being retired for the past year is that I have not experienced any back pain. In your case with your four herniated disks, you should consult a doctor to ask about whether using a Teeter inversion table is safe before you try one. Surgery is always a risk. I did not get surgery. I would weigh the risks of getting surgery versus the risk of not getting it. And I would try an inversion table if your doctor says it is safe for you. Massage can also help. And, yes, watching your weight. If you can find relief like I did without getting surgery, that would seem to be a safer bet. Surgery for back pain does not always work, and sometimes it can make things worse. I am not a doctor and so my suggestions are just those of a fellow traveler. What about more reps with lighter weights? And an exercise bike? There is a cool video series on YouTube about a body builder who switched from weightlifting to resistance bands because of back pain. He said that one change made a huge difference in reducing his back pain, and he is ripped. |
Wilderness, thanks for your experience and other helpful tips. Jay, Also, your joint pains are another problem not directly related to the herniated discs. Several different doctors are needed to determine the cause of all your symptoms--orthopedist, neurologist, neurosurgeon, rheumatologist (arthritis specialist). For the back problems, the teeter.com site mentions several back conditions that are helped by the product, including herniated discs. The 28 min video contains an endorsement by an elderly neurosurgeon. In my experience, most people"s back pain is NOT caused by herniated discs. You will be pissed if you jump for surgery and you still have the problem, or new problems. Get careful diagnoses. Regarding joint pains, this is an inflammatory condition. You will benefit from Dr. Peter Osborne's book, "No grain, no pain." This is a catchy title as a takeoff from the well-known dictum of body building, "no pain, no gain." Basically, eating a high carb diet including grains such as wheat causes inflammation. I consider Osborne a leading expert on gluten free eating. He is stricter than me, and advises NO grains at all. However, I advise being gluten and dairy free, but permit healthy carbs in small amounts like quinoa, beans, lentils, potatoes, carrots, squash, taro, cassava. Sugars from beverages are a NO NO. Alcohol irritates the stomach and intestinal lining which causes "leaky gut" which is the gateway to widespread body inflammation. No matter what the cause of the pain is--trauma, arthritis, orthopedic/neurologic problems--an anti-inflammatory diet improves things. Extra fat creates inflammatory chemicals called adipose cytokines (adipokines), so getting lean and mean is most important and good for general health. Best wishes. |
Preview of this weeks 2 part video: What is my take on Pass Labs gear as a whole? https://youtu.be/lsRyGb9Hcik |
Here is a good story in Outside magazine about aging well by adjusting exercise routines and attitudes: https://www.outsideonline.com/health/training-performance/keys-aging-well-athlete/ The story points out that too many athletes either suffer more injuries when they exercise as hard as they did when they were younger or give up and quit exercising. Neither option is good, and instead a different approach is needed. I am not being preachy. I am writing this for my own benefit as much as for anyone else. I need to exercise more now that I am retired. |
Well, it appears that you "touched a nerve" when you mentioned your back pain. Having had three back surgeries over the past 17 years, each of them addressing a different area of my spine, my perspective isn't as skeptical as others who have provided you with their best advice. The real question always is, what is going on with your spine that is causing the pain (and what type of pain is it)? The surgeon can really only determine that after examining an MRI of the affected area. In my cases, each time it was a bone spur (one time, five of them actually) digging into my spinal cord and causing me truly excruciating pain if I moved "wrong". The surgeon removed the spur(s) and, in each case, the relief was instant, and the recovery took maybe a total of two days, although exercising again was postponed for about four weeks. In my latest surgery of last year, I had two herniated disks as well that were repaired without any subsequent adverse affect. Overall, I can say that, in my situations, the surgery was a lifesaver and has enabled meet to maintain a high quality of life. The only thing that has been curtailed has been squats; for some reason, that particular exercise (even wearing a belt) has caused me some temporary (in days) lower back discomfort. I do agree with the the other posters here that (1) losing some weight -- which would likely be helpful and (2) exercising to keep the muscles around your core strong are both important. Lastly, you move around some very heavy equipment, which cannot be a good thing given your hernias. I suggest you consider buying a manual lifter such as this one: Wesco Value Lift 47" Lift Manual Hydraulic Fork Stacker (digitalbuyer.com). I think it would be a good investment in your health. |
Greatly appreciate your feedback above. I'm fortunate enough to not have to feel the need to go under the knife yet because my pain isn't 24/7. It's more if i sleep wrong or happen to do something that isn't good for my back. I can't even squat 2 plates on each side because i feel quite nervous and as if something else on my back is going to pop. Yet, i can leg press twenty two 45lb (900 lbs) for 12-15 repetitions. My issue is that my legs have always been WAAAAAY stronger than my upper body but i never "evened out" my strength. This pretty much caused my back issues (one of which happened while leg pressing -herniated another disc from the pressure on my back against the support on the chair). I didn't even know you can herniate discs while bench pressing - meaning with a bench supporting your back. No surgery for me. I have retired from bicep-curling 80 lb dumbbells for reps. |
Yikes, 80lb dumbbell curls??? That’s crazy big. Yep, that’ll put a strain on your back. Damn. That’s prolly how you screwed it up. I always hated lifting weights but did it semi-seriously for about half a year in my early 20’s. Sucked at bench press (barely do my weight), but was pretty solid at curls. I liked the curl wavy bar and I forget but I think I used to do around 75 lbs (can’t remember if that included bar) which seemed decent for a 180 lb dude who would rather be playing basketball or hockey than lifting. All I remember is the bigger and more ripped guy I lifted with would do less, but that’s the only thing I could beat him on. But of course that two arms, not one 😂 and still less. But if you’re telling the truth about squats we can throw down for each of our speakers 😂 |
Jay, A big question is how strong do you want to be. We should all try to be as strong as possible, but in order to get there, it is important not to get hurt in the process. If you severely hurt yourself, then your body building journey is over, and you wind up being crippled either by injuries or unintended mishaps from surgery. A goal of safe living is to NEVER have physical pain, which causes stress and shortens your lifespan. Hopefully you can consider judicious procedures as did JMeyers, but get proper diagnosis first, and implement general healthy practices. I was never comfortable doing bench presses, but liked the upright chair doing the same movements. I haven’t been back to the gym due to covid. I am happy doing the equivalent pushups, although that is equivalent to doing the bench press with half the weight. I find a park to do chin-ups. Instead of leg presses, I climb 6 flights of stairs in my building by 2 steps at a time. None of this is as effective as using gym machines, but good results can be attained. I never met or saw anyone who can make a nickel in body building, so be careful to not let your ego cause you to get hurt. |
Most big lifters I used to see just wanted to be as big as possible. Less about amount lifted and more about muscle mass. Just speaking about the lifters I knew. I always thought they were crazy but dang they were dedicated…. (and good to be friends with those guys at parties in case something got stirred up, ha!) |
I started to work out in high school because the hot chicks only went out with big dudes so i tried but i was quite weak. Lol The only difference is that i stayed the course and they didn’t so most of them are fat nowadays. 25 years of lifting, i hit 40 years of age and now i can’t have too much caffeine or else i get crazy anxiety. Working out without pre-work drinks has been the toughest thing but my body now can’t handle them. In my early 30s, I was able to drink double servings of pre-work powders, go to the gym, come home and go out on dates until 3am then go home and sleep until 6am and then be at work at 8am. I didn’t have any issues doing it and now if i don’t sleep 7 hours minimum, i begin to suffer the next day. Ain’t that a b!tch... No wonder why i felt out of place at Axpona 2019? Everyone looked "normal". The only dude i remember that looked like he lifted weight is the sales rep from Lampizator. I hope in 15 years they can rebuild backs. Don’t laugh at this, but they have figured out how to rebuild knees, shoulders, new hips, keep you from passing or catching HIV, etc etc and they haven’t figured out a way to replace herniated discs? There’s gotta be a country somewhere who’s doing this already. I know the U.S. won’t allow it in here until they have figured out a way to make money first just like they did with marijuana. It’s all a damn business. Same thing with cancer. They are letting the pharmaceutical companies make their money and next thing you know, right before I’m getting ready to head out to my funeral, they will announce that the cure for cancer has been found and it that is a simple one - eat shark liver for a week straight until you puke and BOOM... You're cured. |
Ha, yeah that definitely true. All of the lifters get fat when they quit because body so used to shakes and 4-5 meals a day. I remember that was one thing someone told me they’re like yeah it’s good to start these shakes but if you do you pretty much can’t stop lifting or you’ll just get really fat. I lost interest in 6 months so it didn’t really matter. One thing I always noticed when I lifted was my BP went way higher than when I didn’t lift. Could never figure that out. Problem with rebuilding back is spinal cord right there so lot trickier than knee or hip or shoulder. And it’s right in the way of where you need to get! You wouldn’t believe the spinal procedures they have and the med device research into all of that and the tools to gain access but long ways to go ….. |
No quick fix for anything that allows one to abuse the body. Prostheses have limited life span. Bad materials, implants can cause autoimmune disease not realized in early research. Big Pharma has failed miserably in curing Alzheimer's dementia. There is no magic bullet for this. Prevention with exercise, healthy diet and nutrients is most important. Testosterone is important for optimum mental as well as physical performance. Growth hormone (GH) is necessary as we age--by age 40 it is much more diminished than testo. But the medical establishment has stigmatized both testo and GH because of abusively high doses used by body builders, making them difficult to get for appropriate doses through most doctors. |
Ha yeah wouldn’t expect too many weight lifters at audio show. Most don’t lift after age 30 and most don’t start caring about audio until at least age 30 because can’t afford before that. So just based on age prolly not much overlap. And even most world class athletes look bad 10 years after they stop competing. Shaun Kemp (80’s/90’s NBA SuperSonics) was a guest presenter the other night for the NHL Seattle Kraken draft and dude looks like he weighs 375 lbs now, eeeks. So even if they were jacked at one point in their life by time they’re old enough to go to audio show you’d prolly never know, ha I’ve never been to a show but aren’t most attendees over 50? I do wanna go to one tho |
while i enjoy reading about everyone’s ailments and solutions (a daily journey of my own), critical to everyone’s lives no doubt, can we redefine and focus what this thread is about in the audio realm? Of course, WC can make it about whatever he wants, bodily or electronic, but just as one 4+ year reader I am about to throw in the towel. maybe the youtube thread is the primary focus now and this is just the chatter on the outside. this may just be TOTALLY my deal and I am happy to move on. 90% of this thread seems to be dominated by a very few folks which seems like a self reinforcing spiral without drawing in new informed contributions from audiophiles w hands on experience. many folks w incredible knowledge of the gear reviewed here that do not weigh in. love all that input of course and I still learn from everyone. but i do think if there was a redefined purpose for this thread it might help focus input and review. just 2 cents from a long time follower. sounds like more medical advice |
Hello Jay: When I was working at St. Vincent Medical Center in Los Angeles, that Hospital's claim to fame was a back surgeon named Doctor Watkins; there are/were two of them while I was working there, the Father, and his Son, both very talented surgeons. Watkins Sr. was responsible for a number of ground breaking procedures to help those with spine injuries and problems and he invented a number of surgical tools in order to perform the delicate procedure, as I understand it. I believe this is the son: https://www.watkinsspine.com/dr-robert-g-watkins-iv I hope you are able to seek the medical care you need so you do not become permanently injured from your spinal injury. Lastly, I go by the handle of "Angry As Hell" when I comment on your fantastic videos. Take it easy and be well. Kindest regards, RW |
