@techno You are correct, it is superior to your liking. You assume, i don't have good headphones. At this level, System synergy, system set up, & room are all important. One, can't negate any one of these...
Jay, Boulder recommends the power supply and linestage be separated by two feet or so. How much of an effect may be had by doing so?
@speedbump6 Thank you. I have many vintage pieces and newer, expensive (relative) gear as well, are these high priced items better than the vintage; yes, slightly, IMO. Do I think the disparity in cost versus slightly better (subjective to my ears) is worth it (to me); yes, absolutely. Thankfully, gear of all types, makes, topologies and price points are available.
Again, it is all subjective. Some of us don't have the need/urge to constantly be changing, some don't have the funds, some don't have a dedicated room, some exercise wife approval...the list is long. At the end of the day, it dosent matter. Enjoy your current gear and spend your money as you like.
Good luck in all you do,
Jose |
Probably some effect but i don't think it would change the outcome that drastically. |
14,203 posts. Gotta keep this thing moving. |
Just arrived a few hours ago:
Synergistic Research Galielo SX:
- XLR's-Speaker cables
- Powercords
- Ethernet ($4,000 ouch)
I am letting things settle for about 96hrs before i begin to analyze the new sound. I'll be using silver tunning bullets and then I'll switch to gold.
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WC,
Since you are getting all of this SR gear, one more thing to try would be their duplex outlets. Very low cost compared to the other items you are getting. I would at least try the outlets where you have components plugged directly into the wall. They have the new Orange UEF outlet, which is their top of the line.
Dave
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@thezaks had the SR receptacles and didn’t like them they had an edge to them. Tried the Furutech GTX NCF rhodium duplex and boy they made a wonderful improvement but it did take hundreds of hours to break-in. YMMV
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Well said, and I agree, the problem is people ARE cheap!! and luxury audio IS overpriced!!
That said, I really like the road your on, stay on course.
Cheers,
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Going through the videos again, this time at my friends house through his very revealing Raidhos.
Sorry, the Boulder combo eats the Gryphon combo alive. We both agreed on this obvious fact.
I don’t know how some of you guys are listening to this, but clearly either you are biased to Gryphon either your system doesn’t show the differences... |
WC,
Regarding your most recent video on keeping it real...Thanks for clarifying that most guys that pull the wife card are never going to buy something, but there is a smaller percentage that actually do consult with the wife and make a decision. I’m in the latter category, and I’ve bought nearly every time after discussing with my wife. In fact, my favorite dealer would beat me to it and tell me to discuss with my wife and get back to him.
Dave
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A good hi end dealer should be looked at as a " consultant " ( not trying to start anything here, been there, done that, lol ).. The dealer, especially local to the buyer, should be willing to go to the customers home, and evaluate the room ( the electrical situation, room size and shape, furnishings, etc. ), as well as allow in home demos, and ultimately, installation and room set up. Having worked for dealers, and later working with dealers when I was an independent consultant, the relationship I formed was based on honesty, integrity and of course, my experiences in the field. No BS. I think anyone interested in buying real expensive gear, might be best having his / her own " consultant for hire ". The dealer will always try to swing you in the direction of the gear they carry. Pretty unfair of those dealers where shoppers are taking up a dealers time, and then going and buying it elsewhere, cheaper, or even used. The dealer has a very hard time today, which shows by how few are left ( many of whom I knew very well ). Dealers offering, again, in home consultation and installation, do well with their local clientele. I took pride in helping people, as I am sure WC will be doing, as well. If anyone is interested in the newer Boulder or Gryphon, who better, at this point, besides WC. |
rsf507,
Which receptacles did you have? I actually had the opposite experience - I did not like the Furutech Rhodium outlets that I had, but I like the SR Blue. I had the SR Red (Tesla Plex SE) before that - can be a little forward sounding - I did not like that one compared to the SR Blue.
Dave
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@mrdecibel
I partially agree with what you’re saying in regards to in home demos. If the dealer has the product on hand and isn’t using it then he can drive it for an audition BUT if you’re asking me , should a dealer remove Wilson Alexx or boulder monos and hire 3-4 people for the job AND having to pay people for these logistics, i don’t agree that is fair for the dealer. Imagine if someone wanted my Alexx but i needed to take them to their home for audition and i had to pay for the work? It just wouldn’t happen...
Look, to be more transparent here, anyone looking for the boulders, chronosonic xvx, magico m6, and equipment of that caliber isn’t living paycheck to paycheck. If they want an in home demo of the ultra high end, a fee should be set if the customer doesn’t end up buying.
If any of us go to magnolia and order a pair of McIntosh 611 monos from them and then we return them, we lose a 15% restocking fee. Yes, i think that is ABSOLUTELY fair. It’s not like McIntosh will take back the 611 from Magnolia so now they got a pair of 611s sitting on the floor they gotta move.
When it comes to the insanity of some of these components (price wise), buyers who strictly focus on the ultra high end should compensate dealers if the dealer is making all sorts of accomodations for them.
Please note: I’m not talking about just listening to gear in the store but actually going the extra mile.
Unfortunately, this is frowned upon in this industry. However, it isn’t frowned upon when car dealers jack up the prices on cars because they are in high demand??? (Think corvette c8)
What’s even worse here is that cars or transportation in general is a necessity for most of us and audio isn’t a necessity PERIOD yet nobody says a thing about the atrocious things car dealers do AND get away with but we get mad if a dealer charges a fee for a service you are asking for ???
To me that is such a double standard...
I'll even be even MORE transparent with you all:
I had someone reach out to me several weeks ago via email and who i didn't know. They asked if they could hear my set up because they wanted to hear my Boulder set and after talking back and forth he said that he wanted to hear them because he had a dealer who was selling him a set but they weren't local....
So Jay's head goes like:
"Sooooo you want me to bring you into my home, i don't know you, we are in the middle of a pandemic, risk the health of my wife, my kid, in laws and mine and what am I getting out of this???? Nada ??? "
Not going to happen...
It's just ridiculous because we could have put a dollar figure (let's say $500 dollars for whatever amount of time he needed here) and then if he doesn't like the sound or isn't to his liking then guess what???? He only lost 500 HUNDRED DOLLARS!!!!
Could you imagine the loses he would incur if he had bought it and didn't like it??? It's THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS PEOPLE!!
I URGE MANY OF YOU to think about the benefits that exist when you have the opportunity to hear something that isn't cheap for you to buy. It's better to lose pocket change auditioning than to lose massive amounts of money when you have to dump it.
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A couple of updates:
14 days (they need 21 days according to critical mass) of critical mass 1.5 footers under boulder monos and here are my findings thus far:
1. Lost the vicious and intense imaging
2. Bass seems a tad deeper
3. Mids are thinner
4. Lacks the sheer purity and clarity i first heard without the footers
So far, 2 weeks into it, i am quite disappointed with these footers. Again, i still have another week or so to see if things turn around, but so far, under my boulder 2150, the sound went backwards. Could it be that these monos simply don’t need these footers? Who knows...
I will try them under Mephisto next and see what happens.
As far as the full Galielo set up, these are about 8 months old so they are broken in. That said, i was told by the seller that they take at least a week without touching them at all before they bloom. Right now, i have a hard time sitting through more than 2 songs. I don’t feel engaged or enticed to sit down and push play. I literally fall asleep with the remote in my hand. I know exactly what to do to get back the sound i had before but i need to first be 100% sure that my ears are right with this preliminary feeling.
Lastly, one component makes a return to my lab tomorrow... Excited to try it and see HOW it will interact with my system. 🙂 |
Jay - it doesn't matter what commodity you're in, some people have unreasonable expectations.
One of our companies offers comprehensive property management services for waterfront estates. One point I learned to establish with new clients is all services are billed. People would attempt to request additional services and request they be included without additional cost for a multitude of reasons.
I've since referred and transferred such clients to other property managers siting they're a better match - frankly because I don't want to work with such individuals. It's a principle of respect.
This one company we have provides "turn key service" with clients who have been with us for more than 20 years, with whom we've built very strong relationships.
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I also would like to try Center Stage 1.5 feet under Mephisto. Unfortunately, they are just 38 mm tall, I measured Mephisto’s feet and their height is almost 50 mm. So you will not be able to put them under Mephisto without removing the stock feet. I understand that you can remove the stock feet by hand, there is a guy from WBF forum, who did it. Still I am not sure I want to do it. |
That sucks. I didn't measurement the Mephisto |
What were those black components on the floor that the cables were sitting on in latest video? Did I miss something? |
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So it seems that the newer SR cables are not giving the same performance as the older versions? That’s surprising but that’s why we listen. I agree with Jay about services provided. I own my own store and people do not give value to any service you provide, even when it’s service you just cannot get at most stores. They seem to feel they own you sometimes because they made a purchase, or thinking about it, and expect everything else besides the product should be free, and most will shop you to death on the prices. Some will even try to compare floor model demo prices to new in the box prices. It’s nice when you get the ever more rare customer who does value what you do and provide, rather than make you feel more like an endentured servant. Also so many think they can return anything they want at any time because the big box stores might do it giving ugh or care to the cost of business and that if you cannot cover your costs and make money, you won’t be there to begin with. I would have no problem if dealers charged for demos by the hour, that would weed out the tire kickers and people would better understand the value of the services they are receiving. Personally I don’t expect anyone to work for free and should be compensated for their time. |
That’s my point:
If dealers charged by the hour for personal listening sessions where they would have to literally stop doing what they are doing and close a room so they can give you undivided attention then YES they need to get paid for that and if the buyer ends up buying something then they don’t get charged for the personal listening session or whatever we want to call it.
Of course if a customer just wants to go drool over the momentum stuff and touch it or sit real quick to listen then let them but once you demand time and attention and want to sit and listen critically with someone changing cables and components for you then it is FAIR to assume you have a credit card in hand and are ready and you just want to narrow down your choices.
This is WHY i don’t waste dealer’s time out of respect for them. I know EXACTLY WHAT I WANT so i just need to call and negotiate. I don’t need to listen or make ridiculous demands. Most of the components i have here I’ve never listened to before and the few times I have heard stuff at a dealer i was disappointed with the sound.
The dealer in west palm beach who came here to help me dial in the Alexx heard my boulder stuff and guess what? They are now a boulder dealer as of a week ago...
Some dealers ask me for advice as to what lines to bring in based on synergy and sound. I am about to start charging them for my time 😂 |
Well...i just plugged in the synergistic research powercell SX today and i feel like someone transported me into a new room. I need to go to the patio and do some backflips. I'll be right back ! |
When visiting a dealer for a listening session, which I rarely do, especially these days, I want no undivided attention from the shop owner, but just want to listen to my own stuff at my own pace.
Although I never had to pay for a session, I have no problem to do so, as long as the price is reasonable.
I have the feeling, that most of the dealers here are more than willing to show you their products, because high-end is just a small market.
Most of the sessions however were a disappointment, only helpful to narrow down the choices.
The list goes on and on of products which did not meet my expectations in at least that particularly setup and room.
Best service was from the importer, which allowed me to try my Monitor Audio PL 500 speakers for free for two weeks, they brought and picked them up, without fee or necessity to buy.
I ordered them shortly after that.
For the importer it was six times at least a two hours ride.
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Powercells are useful in USA , specially in Florida where AC wall power is far for being clean.
Here in Montreal Canada, we get ultra clean AC generated by hydro turbines...
Powercells are overkill in these regions. |
@whitecamaross
Speaking of footers, the 1.5 footers from critical mass are still not
really impressing me under the boulder monos. However, i was told to
wait 3 weeks and so far I’ve only had them under the amps for about 8
days. As of today, the boulder 2150s aren’t impressing me with those
footers BUT I can’t assume anything just yet. I need to wait until about
Jan 15 to finally give you all my opinion on them with boulder of
course. Let’s not forget that every component reacts differently (some
benefit more) and if I end up not liking them after 21 days then it
means Boulder needs zero isolation devices under it. I’d proceed to try
them under the Mephisto but remember this means that I’d need to wait
ANOTHER 21 days... Each component has different weight so the footers
need to "adjust" to the new weight. You realize it's 21 days of CONTINUOUS playing? |
we get ultra clean AC generated by hydro turbines...
A generator does not care at all what it is driven by. You may have clean AC power there, but hydro is not the reason. |
As I said earlier, a dealer has a hard job today, based on the internet and basic consumerism. I do believe a store has a right, and should, charge an evaluation fee for demo time, and later, worked out if a purchase is made. Before covid, I have always had folks I did not know, come to my house, to listen to my system. Of course, this was after a phone call and interactions via emails and texts. I met many good people this way, and actually discussed how they can achieve better results with their systems. I have gone to many of these folk's homes as well, for free. Being retired, and not needing the additional income, I was enjoying my time and sharing my knowledge. Not necessarily me learning anything, but hearing gear I would not have heard otherwise. There was a time you, WC, you opened your doors to anyone interested in hearing your system ( at that particular time, as your system changes often ). This was before covid, and makes things near impossible now. Anyway, living in Central Florida, my ac is never consistent, but I learn to live with it. Enjoy ! Always, MrD. |
Yep
I just feel like there are tons of people out there who love free rides which is fine if the bus is already headed that way, but if you are making me deviate and bust a u turn to pick you up, you paying for this bus ride. |
Hello whitecamaross. Have spent a good 8 hours reading through this forum and have learnt alot.
I was able to listen to the pass xa30.8, x250.8, gryphon diablo 120 and 300. Was not able to listen to the luxman 590. With what i listend to i would be leaning towards pass 250 or either gryphon.
My issue is i have a prima luna dialouge preamp. Do you think i should buy like a plinius 103 power amp or sell the preamp and get the luxman 590 as you rated it higher than gryphon diablo 300? Thank you |
Buy gryphon Diablo 300 and be done. |
To 88hht ....WC will likely encourage you to contact him via email and be your consultant, as I will explain. Based on your question......What music do you like ?. What speakers do you own ? How is your room set up ? What cables, wires, sources, are you using ?, and dozens others. The most important question, to me, would be : on a daily basis, listening to your music through your system, how does it get you connected, to what is on these recordings ? " Connected to the musicians playing. |
WC, really ? just like that ? What about the dozen other questions ? |
That’s called experience decibl. Jay never said he wanted to charge for quick questions, but like he said above, you want to demand a lot of his time no effort you need to make it worth his while. |
@mrdecibel
I just answered his question... If he wanted more of a deeper explanation and for me to get more involved then that's where I can do it privately with him.
I can answer with a quick response if that's all that is needed. |
Well, I just wrapped up the video with regards to my take on Tekton Ulfberht.
I might release it tomorrow (not sure)
I hope it doesn’t piss anyone off. |
WC, you gave him no opportunity to use you as his consultant. What he needed, then and there, was a consultant, not a recommendation of a product. He could take you for your word, and buy the Diablo. It might be better to him than what he owns, but more investigation needs to be done. This is not experience, imo, and I hope we can be gentleman about it. I feel I opened you up to a consulting gig, but you gave an answer. Speedbump, I am surprised you see it that way. I NEVER came out with a one word answer to any audio question like that one. |
I apologize. This thread is not about me, nor my ideals. WC, continue your journey. My best, Always, MrD. |
I didn’t want to insert comments about my services here mr decibel because some people might frown upon it. This is why I left it alone... But you have the right idea which i want to thank you for.
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Ha, those were just the boxes, lol. Looked like cables on top of some new addition black components.
I wonder if dCS Vivaldi is coming back? With the Boulder tandem and Wilson Alexx, Rossini is the current weak link I think.
Separate question: WC, do you subscribe to the theory that digital cables are best at 1.5m for reflection purposes, etc.? Can’t recall where I read that, but I’ve seen it out there. What length is your digital cable from the external clock to Rossini? |
Galileo Sx Wilson Alexx Dcs ROSSINI Boulder 2110 Boulder 2150 Listen at the 9:50 mark... 90db peaks with 1000 watts behind it. Who said power like this is unnecessary? 😁 https://youtu.be/ABaA3FTQNlo |
@whitecamaross what are the test tracks you are using in this video?
thanks! |
Wow.
This Boulder combo sound so much better than the Gryphon one.
Audiophile acoustic music in your last yt video shows this plainly. |
It is amazing how a " better recording " can make a system sound so much better. I have been saying this for quite a while. |
Just so nobody bites my head off. Jay gave me permission to post this video of the same song he recorded from Tool called Chocolate Chip Trip. I have to thank Jay for turning me onto the Shure MV 88 + microphone. Enjoy https://youtu.be/ewIfQUKyIcc |
@mrdecibel
I totally agree with you. Having had the opportunity to hear many systems over the years, and having a highly resolving system for several years now, it has become highly apparent that media is the determinant. If subpar recordings are played, a subpar listening experience will result. There is no replacement for experience in this hobby.
I can say that as my system has been dialed in and improved, all boats have risen. But the best recordings still remain the best. |
Fun video, WC. Sounds amazing. Nice to hear the different music style. |
WC,
I might have missed it, but I don't see the Powercell SX listed for that video - was it not in yet when you did the video?
Dave
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Nope. It wasn't being used. |
Bad recordings within any media will make a good system sound subpar. Again, one must pay attention to as many of the details as possible, regardless of the equipment used (assuming the system is sufficiently revealing).
How many of us attend audio shows?? How many of you are willing to pay an entrance fee to each and every one of the demo rooms, or at least, the rooms that peak your interest??
take care,
Jose |
