Thanks Ross. I'd have to think about your question. Maybe I'll do a video
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
hello WCI've been following this thread with interest, even though cabling is beyond my comprehension.I would be interested in your opinion on all the speakers you have auditioned, and how you would rank them. I am specifically looking at MA pl500 11 as the might stack up against some of your favorites.thanks Ross |
Best speaker I've had the pleasure to listen too was the Avantgarde Duo Mezzo XD. Dynamics galore, both micro and macro. Don't know if they would work in your room WC but worth to check out IMHO. https://www.avantgarde-acoustic.de/en/products/duo-series/duo-mezzo-xd.html |
Neoliths , sonus Faber Aida, von scheikert vr55, vivid audio g1 s2,.... Hmmm decisions ... decisions..And you could save up to the Grypohon Kodo also :-) Should work with your Gryphon amp. Have you ever tried any MBL speaker? The new Vimberg speakers are also interesting, I've only heard one at a show but would like to hear it more. They have some that might be in your price ranges but may be hard to find used yet. |
Ok men , The powercord shootout will take place this week. Audioquest dragon HC $9500 msrp versus Odin 1 $12k MSRP. The swap will only take place on the power amp and everything else will remain the same. Will the audioquest dragon be capable of closing the gab or even besting what the Odin 1 does ? Stay tuned to find out :) |
ricevs, I agree about your speaker assessment. Your Tekton MOAB's have a lot going for them, although I have never heard them. I also agree that live music sometimes has warmth, which is the case in soft wooded rooms and halls, and at a distance where there is HF rolloff. However, at close range, the tonality of voices and instruments is surprisingly dry and cool. The cello has body, but it also has dryness and rough edges from the micro and macro scraping of the bow on the string--I know because I am a violinist and sit close as a listener. In general, live voices and instruments can have both warmth and detail, but all speakers are flawed and murky by comparison. Warm speakers tend to sacrifice detail, especially at HF. So I think it is appropriate to cheat and choose electronics/cables that bring out the detail which is revealed by close miking. Relative thinness is often a byproduct of this approach. Another factor is that scaling down the large dimension of the live stage to the much smaller dimension of the listening room will create relative thinness. Even with live instruments like a large piano, it will sound good on a large stage, but overwhelm a smaller room. To avoid bloating and inflation of the image, it is necessary to thin it down to where the listening room experience can suggest the same smaller and focused image in the live larger hall. |
The word warm has nothing to do with the word muffled. They are two completely different things. You have the natural warmth of live music. A Cello or a bass/baritone singer or a bass has natural warmth. If you subtract its natural warmth then you are thinning out the sound. Many times when I tweak, I make my system both more natural (and more naturally warm) and more detailed at the same time. Many people call "thin" sounding amps neutral. You can only know how neutral an amp is (not warm tilted or bright tilted, etc.) is by doing a straight wire bypass test on it (yes, it can be done....a friend was doing it back in the 1970s). If you listen to a system in someones home, you are hearing the sound of every single thing in that system: the AC, the AC conditioning, the AC power cords, the source, the recording, the preamp, the amp, all the cables, whether the cables are on the floor or not, the footers and equipment stands, the room, the room treatments, the speakers, the speaker set up, etc. etc. etc. To make a statement that some speaker must be neutral because you do not hear the "color" of some amp is simply not correct. You are hearing the whole enchilada. How do you know which component is doing what unless you A/Bed every component (including the AC power) with another component? In fact, if a component (speaker, in this case) was totally neutral then the color of the component (or whole system) would not be subtracted out. In fact, the color of the component or system before it would be even more evident. I have no doubt that the GT Audio speakers are incredible. I have been following them since they were first shown years ago, when they were $3K including subs. He has since made them look way better and sound way better....and of course, they now cost some serious $20K plus. However, I would buy these things over the conservative $100K+ front firing box speakers. My sense is that they would blow my mind......just hearing them through my $29 Altec computer speakers blows my mind. If the Ref 3 drivers are that much better than what have been shown then OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!! Get rid of those freakin boxes!!!! The only box speaker that excites me is the Tekton biggies....when you have 14 low mass tweeters going all the way down to 300hz......you are going to have some seriously transparent sound. If you modded the Tektons with better xover parts, etc.(about 11K for the biggest ones modded) it would truly be mind blowing. However, if I had more money then the GT Audio speakers would be in my room. Under $10 K you have the Spatial open baffle speakers and the GR Research open baffle speakers that are both incredible. I bet the Muraudio electrostat hybrid speakers are really nice but they have limited dynamic range...something I would not want. Hey, once in a while I want 110db+ peaks.....don’t you? Jimi Hendrix....or Mahler, or drums, or whatever.....just once in a while...he he. |
WC, Words are always inadequate to describe sound, but both "muffled" and "warm" refer to how the natural edges of transients are rounded and subtracted from the total overtones of the sound. Also, when I heard an early version of the GTA speaker in Steve's large home room, driven by only a 60 watt Pass, it sounded neutral but not "muffled" or "warm." I did not hear the typical warmth of Pass. That is a testament to the neutrality and detail of the GTA. However, if I heard it with my own neutral Mytek or your Gryphon, I probably would have described the Pass as being muffled only by comparison. |
Thanks guys for your input. The new GT Audio Works Reference 3’s will be completed in 4-6 weeks. The model 3.2 is fully upgradeable to the new Reference 3 planar drivers for a reasonable charge. Unlike other manufacturers that come out with a 20.1 then a 20.7 speaker and you have to basically sell what you have And take a huge loss- that is not the case with GT Audio works the speakers have a lifetime upgradability warrantee and lifetime warranty on the drivers. We have been selling speakers going on nine years and our sales have been increasing every year. You truly have to hear this speaker in person I know the videos only give you somewhat of an idea of what the speaker can do. You have to experience the dynamics transparency and virtual reality that this speaker exhibits. The New membrane is even more of a resemblance to Kevlar - in that the way the membrane is constructed prevents any type of distortion when high volumes are presented to the driver-this coupled with pure 6N copper traces, vibration technology control built into the frames and lack of a crossover Will contribute to a sound that seems to defy description. |
I second viber6, I own an earlier GTAW speaker and I've heard their rooms at CAF for years and each year they have been better and in my top 3 rooms of the show. The GTA 3.2R's performance is right there with the best cost no object and paired with 3 12" OB servo subs per side are sublime, certainly my end game speaker system that checks all my boxes. Now I'm wondering what new (or bring back a previous amp-Block or Pass) amp will be brought in to make the DAWs sing for you? |
i am contemplating the GTA. It is on my radar, but i need to do my homework before. Anyhow, i wanted to say that those of you who found the constellation audio "muffled" or "smeared" should probably stay away from luxman as well. I disagree with what was said about constellation, but i do understand that not everyone likes the same so it is all fair. Remember, if you do not like Constellation, then you have zero business buying Luxman. You will not like it either. |
WC, Just buy the GTA alone, and the sub later. It beats any dynamic speaker for clarity and naturalness, and the Neolith for HF extension. It is spacious and still focused, unlike the bloated, inflated image of the Neolith. And it is way cheaper than any of them. You can carry on your business buying and selling electronics and cables, but make this GTA a keeper speaker. With your superb Gryphon and DCS, you'll have even more clarity and spaciousness than in the video with the Lampi and Pass. Even in a larger room, you won't need any more power than your Gryphon for these efficient speakers. |
I previously sent some posts and videos regarding the GT Audioworks speakers as Jay visited our exhibit at Axpona. The speakers have the latest upgraded drivers and sound even better when Jay had heard them at Axpona. I just took this video with the regular microphone in my iPhone and it sounds pretty good. https://youtu.be/7P5LJlUMkqY |
@viber6 Of course the bass material was audible in the OP’s room. My point was that you cannot hear the differences in deep bass over most computer systems. Bass (below 100hz) is so important in a system. "With the Gryphon, if the mids/HF are clearer than the Constellation, the odds are that the bass is clearer, tighter and more tuneful as well." Maybe maybe not. I’ve heard cables and components that sounded wonderful from the midrange up but had a muddy, too prominent or too little bass. You won’t be able to hear that on a standard computer. |
jetter, I did try my superb pro quality Beyerdynamic 880 headphones plugged into the computer. Still nowhere near the sound quality utilizing these headphones in a great noncomputer system. I was investigating getting some pro powered speaker monitors from the USB output and dac. To me, it is not worth spending money on a system vastly inferior to my regular system. I just enjoy the music from youtube without obsessing about its sound quality. |
@viber6 Not being able to hear if the bass is muddy, bloated, full sounding, tight, tuneful etc....would be a deal breaker for me....regardless what the midrange and top end are doing. I do understand this is just for fun though, and the OP would never buy something based on what posters request or whine about.....well except the Wilson DAW speaker. |
ron17, Although recently I encouraged WC to get professional quality mikes to make the recordings more revealing, I have been amazed that I was able to hear the essential differences between amps from his present setup and my mediocre stock computer sound. Still, I think more subtle cable differences will be harder to demonstrate with his present setup. Also, mid and HF material shows more differences than bass, as with the last Gryphon/Constellation video. I couldn't tell the difference with the opening bass material, but the guitar and voice showed the differences. |
@WCSS So let me get this straight. You said "If you can’t tell a difference at all then this means I should keep the cheapest PC out of the 3 and sell the rest." So if we (listening over the internet with our computers) can't tell the difference between the 3 PC's, you will keep the cheapest? Seriously? Are you really going to rely on the sound quality of our computers? When I evaluate an aftermarket PC on my system I listen for detail, clarity, tonal balance and a deep, tight tuneful bass. On your last 'cable shootout' I could hear (somewhat) detail, tonal balance (down to upper bass only) and decay (reverberation time). I wouldn't buy or sell anything based on listeners voting after listening over the internet through their computers.....just saying. |
No I don’t have any aftermarket 20a in pairs. Only have the 3 mentioned above which cost a boat load of money as it is. i am Not going to be buying pairs of 20a PCs at this price point. Most of you out there don’t buy any of this level of PCs due to how expensive they are so doing shootouts of cables like this are just an added bonus from me to you all. i add them to my videos to give you something to hear and see for yourself, but i know 90% of you are not going to be heading out the door to buy Audioquest dragon HC PCs for your entire system. Sometimes i buy something on the fly because i have an itch, but one thing i won’t do is to buy 2 pcs of this brand, then 2 of that brand, then 2 of the other brand and then 2 of the 20a versions of each brand, etc, etc. Can’t embark on that journey unfortunately. i mean, could you imagine if i had 2 pcs of each of the top brands? i won't ever finish doing this... i would be spending weeks just changing out cables.. Also, i know someone above mentioned about reviewers living with components for months on end in order to give accurate assessments. yes, this makes perfect sense, BUT lets keep it real: would you all want me to sit on my a$$ with a component for 5 months and then give you my input? Most of you follow me because of my sickness and constant trials that never end. Some of you are as sick as i am in terms of audio, but perhaps don't have the funds to keep trying stuff out so you live vicariously through me ( i have been told this in person at shows and via pm's fyi). That said, i am very thankful to Audiomica though for allowing me to hear their stuff. |
No boulder for me anytime soon. I think the gryphon will be my go to amp which will be switched out occasionally when I have something new to play with. The Gryphon Is extremely extremely picky with power. You can't use a 15a outlet on it or it will fall apart. I am using a 30a outlet and it sounds great there but I did try a 15a outlet and it wasn't impressive. Keep that in mind when purchasing gryphon. |
"Muffled" is a good way to describe the Constellation vs the clarity of the Gryphon. On the Gryphon I hear more twang/snap on the guitars and focus/guttural character of the voice. When people describe "warmth" of something like the Constellation, Luxman, D’Ag, Pass, a more honest description would be "muffled" which is what they are. If you find that the Gryphon is too irritating in the HF, just keep the volume from getting too loud. Personally, I get more excitement from listening to an accurate system at 80 dB than a slightly muffled system at 90 dB. It is tempting to want more volume, but if clarity is lessened with a muffled component, it is hopeless. Some musical information is lost and no amount of expensive cabling will restore the information. Also, take the Gryphon, listen at 90 dB or so, then listen at 88 dB. You will find even greater focus and overall precision, and of course you will be able to listen longer without fatigue but get more appreciation of the music. Congratulations on your discovery of the Gryphon, and you should look forward to hearing the more powerful mono blocks. However, I won’t be surprised if this lower power Gryphon beats the higher power amps for clarity. Lower power amps in my experience have greater clarity because of less circuitry and shorter signal paths. Try to find the new series of Boulder. That would be a great shootout with the Gryphon. |
Yes. All was the same. Ok so I am going to do a video comparing the following 3 PCs: Audioquest dragon HC Odin 1 Audiomica Consequence Every single thing will remain the same. The only thing I will be changing is the PC on the gryphon. I will not disclose which powercord I am going to be using as I film each video because this way nobody is biased. I will cover the powercord being used and you all will decide if you like PC 1, 2 or 3. Then I will reveal which PC you all preferred. If you can’t tell a difference at all then this means I should keep the cheapest PC out of the 3 and sell the rest. I want you all to shock yourselves with your pick so maybe this will give you food for thought. Once this is done, on a separate video I will do the following: Odin 1 on dac plus Odin 1 on amp Versus Audioquest hurricane hc on dac plus audioquest dragon HC on amp . I can’t do audiomica because I only own one audiomica PC which is for my amp. |