My pleasure. I'm also going to do a video on my take on using a dac directly into the amps versus using a preamp.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
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Fist and formost is I'm happy to hear you and your family are well. So I went back to your original ac cord shootout of the 3 cables. Yes Odin had the most detail but to me still had a tipped up top end. Cable 2 (AM) and cable 3 (AQ) were closer on sound but cable 2 had this foot tapping quality above the others plus it had more weight in the bottom octaves. Please keep in mind this based on listening on a computer I'm sure listening in your room things might sound different. I'll also repeat my thoughts that you last video is being held back by those speaker cables. YMMV |
Until a powercord can prove its worthiness by taking on the already proven successful powercords , it means nothing. In my eyes and ears , Odin 1 continues to best a lot of new offerings and many manufacturers STILL can't figure out what to do to best it. Now, yes one prefer a powercord over another one because it does something better for them BUT I will say that when I comes to sheer detail, and liveliness NOTHING has bested Odin 1. NOTHING. That said, this isn't a cable for everyone. |
Odin 2 is indeed a better cable but the rest of your system needs to be at its level in order to benefit from it. I still believe that Odin 1 is the best cable for the money BUT it has to be carefully matched with other components or you might get some of the "brightness" as some of you call it. That said , once you hear and own it, it is hard as hell to accept anything else other than odin 2. It has nothing to do with its price either because I own cheaper cables, but right now my ears are enjoying cardas clear beyond so much that i am shocked to say the least. I am now seriously thinking of bringing cardas clear audio beyond speaker cables and let the party begin but let's wait on the preamp to see how Odin 1 plays with this new component. |
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Hello @Whitecamaross, I am not at all surprised you are enjoying Cardas Clear Beyond ICs.... I do not have Clear Beyond ICs and speaker wires yet.... And still I am finding the midlevel Clear Reflection absolutely enchanting.... My PCs are instead Beyond XL. I have gone Cardas all the way some two years ago, and am superglad I have done so. I am using a full Cardas loom for my review project of the Rowland Daemon integrated: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/jeff-rowland-daemon-reviewing-the-jrdg-superintegrated-flagship-ampli G |
WC, I understand that you will test your DCS Rossini DAC with an upcoming preamp, to validate if your system sounds better with or without a preamp. The Rossini DAC has 4 user-selectable analog voltage outputs (0.2 Vrms, 0.6 Vrms, 2 Vrms and 6 Vrms) in the DAC software settings. To what output voltage have you set your DAC to? The reason I’m asking, is that I own a DAC with 3 user-selectable voltage outputs and mine works best using the 2 Vrms value feeding my monoblocks (29 dB gain). When I received my DAC, the original manufacturer setting was at 18 Vrms, which sounded horrible. I tried a second setting at 6 Vrms which sounded better but had a limited volume control (some lack of dynamic range). I finally set it up to 2 Vrms, which provided a linear volume control with dynamic/best sound. You may want to check that out prior to your preamp test (if not already done). Looking forward to your next YouTube video. I really enjoy your journey! |
The preamp is here and it has shocked the living crap out of me. It has really done an incredible thing with my music and the overall presentation. On my next video i will reveal what preamp i am talking about. Oh, i had someone from this forum come over to my place tonight to listen to my system and so towards the end of our listening session i decided to bring the focal scala evo back from the dead and placed them right in front of the Sasha DAW and just pushed play... well, the jaw dropping reaction was insane and to make a long story short he said "the focal scala evo are better than the sasha daw to my ears"... and he is a current Wilson Audio owner.. BIG COMPLIMENT to focal for sure, but now i need to sit and listen as well and see if i hear what he is hearing. Stay tuned for a video on the focal scala evo vs wilson audio DAW. Hearts will be broken on this video , but as i have done so far, i want for YOU ALL to decide what you like BEST. I will keep listening for now to both speakers and then give you all my input on both speakers which i currently own. For now, i must say that the scala evo have TOTALLY elevated themselves with the addition of this preamp. TOTALLY UNEXPECTED ! |
On your earliest videos with the Focal Scala I preferred it to the Wilson Alexia 1 on another video, although the music was different, so it was a bit of an apples/oranges comparison. The Focal was more detailed and more natural at the same time. I don't care what flavor a preamp may add, it will remove some detail. You may at first be intrigued with the added flavor, but then will realize that some detail is sacrificed so that at moderate SPL's you will enjoy the clarity and naturalness without the preamp. I heard a smaller Focal at Harry Weisfeld's VPI house 6 months ago. There is little doubt that Focal's technology is superior to Wilson. I look forward to the next video. |
@WCSS I tried to find your pm to me from a couple of years ago, but I couldn't find it. I had asked you about power cords for the Pass Lab's amp we both owned ("don't bother adding them"). I see your still at it and now making Youtube videos. Well congratulations. They're great! You helped me once, so I would like to help you if I could. Unless I missed you trying it somewhere in the last 193 pages of your incredible thread, try adding something that I was reluctant that made my system jump another level. You said you liked the Audioquest Dragon. Do yourself a huge favor and add an Audioquest Niagara to your whole system. You keep spending a whole lotta $$$ chasing that sound you want, so give it a try. Maybe you'll decide to keep it... |
Wilson Sasha DAW versus Focal Scala Evo. Please let me comments on the YouTube channel. https://youtu.be/AsId1C90u7o |
Crazy - I had just come upstairs tonight after listening to a long set of Dire Straits on my ARC/Spendor system, concluding with Romeo & Juliet (my personal favorite DS tune) and You and Your Friend. Eerie. Anyway, I preferred the Wilsons. To me when the switchover occurred, it sounded like the Focals were missing some sound layers in the mids as compared to the DAWs. The Focals sounded like a wider soundstage, but it was almost like a big stadium that was half full with half the excitement - something was missing - like too much social distancing with the presentation in a negative way (ugh, can’t even make an audio comparison without slipping into virus jargon...). The DAWs sounded fuller and more beautiful to me across the sound spectrum, more intimate like a packed smaller venue just teeming with excitement and energy. Good video, thanks. |
The DAW was behind the Focal while listening to the Focal. The speakers are in different locations in the room...the recording is closer with the Focals....the level seems lower with the Focals....did you match levels to .5 db using pink noise? I know it takes a lot of time, muscle and energy to move the other speaker to the back of the room and put the speakers in the exact same place in the room and match the levels....but unless you do these things the A/B is very flawed. |
First off, WHY. Would you place the speakers in the same spot ? The spot where the Wilson are is the best spot for them. I had a dealer come and spend hours trying to dial them in. That said , why would you think that this is the same spot where the focals sound best ? Your thinking is also quite flawed if you ask me. You cant use the same exact spot for both speakers especially when this spot has already been determined as the best spot for one of the speakers. This doesn’t mean it is the best spot for the focals especially when we already know they are waaaaay different designs. Rear ported and vs down firing port which means they interact with the room different. I find the focals to sound better the closer they are to my listening position after I experimented with them tonight and placing them around the same area where the wilson was. I also tried placing the Wilson where the focals were on the video and the bass vanished from the room but if I place the focals where the Wilson were on the video then the soundstage of the focal isn’t as huge as when I get more out into the room.. To make it simple , if I place the focals where the Wilson are on the video , the sound isn't as open. If I place the Wilson where the focals are on the video the soundstage isn't as tall , wide and deep plus they lose all the bass. |
Yes, each speaker might need a different position for the sound YOU prefer. If you move any speaker forward it will have a more expansive soundstage. The distance to each wall and room size will determine the bass response (different for each speaker). If you had the Focals where the Wilsons were then you could just move your listening chair forward to achieve the "nearer field" listening you like with the Focals....meanwhile keeping the other distances the same. The Focals seem less bassy in the video in that position (with Wilsons behind them). However, leaving one speaker behind the other while listening is seriously bad. Everything in the room must be the same for each speaker. Something behind the main speakers will interact with them causing them to not sound as good as they can if they were in the open by themselves......everyone knows this!. Did you match levels using pink noise? How do you know you are listening at the same level unless you do so. This is not just a casual A/B.....you are trying to get feedback from people. Unless you do a properly done A/B then we are just commenting on the flawed sound we hear. When you change a cable or something that does not require "room interactions and speaker sensitivity differences and listening distance preferences" then A/Bs are easier to do with accuracy. You have to do everything very carefully to determine the "best for you". If you do not lift the cables off the floor they you will NEVER know how good a particular cable is. The Odin speaker cable is sitting on its edge so it is "semi" of the floor. The other speaker cables you tried were just laying on the carpet (oh my God, this is horrible!!!!....rectified in one half hour for free by making your own risers from cardboard or other wood laying around). Your posts are fun.....When do we get to follow some rich guy playing with a bunch of standard expensive audiophile products?....not too often....maybe never.....so it is entertaining. Here is the truth......every audiophile is doing there own thing. There is no "truth" in high end audio. If you take your car to the Indy 500 and if in qualifying you have the fastest lap time then you get the pole position. What is the pole position in audio?.....everyone has a different opinion....there is no race course for audio except in your own limited experience in your own home. What if a magazine decided to get all the top preamps or whatever in the world in at one time and burned them all in for 500 hours and spent countless hours A/Bing on various systems and also did straight wire bypass tests on each one. This would be a "kindof" race course. If the magazine published its findings it would go out of business....for all the companies that did not make it to the top of the list would no longer advertise.......So, we all all left to our own devices to search the net for all the info we can find and then get a couple of pieces in to try. I mean, how many $30K preamps can anyone get in their house at one time and for how long could you have them? Same goes at any price range and for any type of gear. When I lived in Berkeley, CA in the late 70s.....my audio buddies that lived within a couple of square miles had literally 80% of the best gear in the world. We could just drive or even walk to each others house and A/B these few pieces for hours.......this is when there were just a handful or so of the best preamps, amps, speakers, cartridges that existed. Now there are a million products from a million countries all trying to sell you their latest and best offerings....and all with no real race course. This is why every man is on their own. I have never met an audiophile (friend or customer) who wanted the same thing or liked the exact thing as another or bought all of the exact same gear....not in over 40 years! Do you realize how many expensive cable companies there are.....OMG Tryng just a few brands...say Cardas, Nordost, and whatever gives you about 3% of what is possible. I could name at least 10 other cables that might be better than Nordost in one minute.........and another person would come up with a different list in one minute....on and on. This game is infinite....just like life and like ourselves. Ever expanding infinity of possiblilities. Enjoy the ride....but if you think you know something about infinity.....ha ha ha. |
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If you want the Focals to be a little less bright, more focused, purer and clearer and possibly warmer then you can felt the front of the speaker around the tweeter and midrange. You felt the whole baffle right up to the surround of each driver. You notice the defraction control felt on the Wilson? It is there for a reason. Thin black wool felt is super cheap and you can just cut it and stick it on the speaker using regular double stick scotch tape. Bend back a tiny corner of the tape when you put it on the speaker so you can easily peel it off. It will leave no residue on the speaker and you can easily put the felt on and off several times before it won’t hold the felt any longer. I have been doing this for 40 years on every speaker I have made to good effect. But since you won’t bother even lifting your cables off the floor then I bet you won’t try this. To each his own. I always want to find out how good something can be.....without any tweaking.....you are missing a lot. Especially cheap or free tweaks like felting and cable lifts and better fuses and better feet. These things make one hell of a difference. Another relatively inexpensive thang to do is to get off the grid entirely using low distortion sine wave inverters run on batteries. So far, every one who has tried it has been blown away. Of course, all inverters will sound different but so far everyone has been happy with the ones they have tried. Here is an interesting review/ariticle to get you started. http://enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0119/Goal_Zero_Yeti_400_Lithium_Portable_Power_Station_R... I use a modded Yeti 400 on my modded Oppo 205 and the sound is great. You can buy a 2000 watt low distortion sine wave inverter (4000 watt peak) and a 100 ah AGM battery and great charger for around $700 total. If you get two batteries you can run your whole system all day without recharging. You can buy several inverters and run them on each component (all running off one set of batteries). A large inverter will probably sound better if you are using a high powered amp as it can supply more peak current. Tweaking is fun! |
For those that may not have realized - this post was closed because of personal attacks. Now that this post has been re-opened, let’s follow the Audiogon guidelines and have no personal attacks / disputes. Otherwise we all loose. Not bashing each other really would improve this thread. If we don’t have something constructive to say, don’t post. None of us will agree all the time (me on top of that list) but antagonizing each other will only demean and degrade us all. How about taking the "higher ground" from this point forward? Thanks whitecamaross for all your contributions. I hope we can all keep this thread ongoing - we all benefit from sharing. |
ALL- i want to thank EACH AND EVERYONE of you for the support you have shown me via pm’s, text messages, phone calls and email. I am very blessed to have such a great amount of people who can support what i have been doing -or better said WE ALL have been doing over the past few years. There is NOTHING that can’t be beat when we all unit which includes this Coronavirus. This thread was deleted yesterday and has been reinstated today BECAUSE of your pleas and courage to speak up. Thank you for this and PLEASE remember that my doors are open to you all if you ever come into my neck of the woods. We have something in common which unites us and although our spouses, significant others may not truly understand at times our OCD behavior towards audio, just know that I DO understand it and live with it in my veins just like it does with you. Please stay safe, and due to the difficult times that we are all facing right now i feel it is very important that i give you some pointers on how to stay protected and safe. Here is a video i created today for you all that i am sure will serve you well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npVqAEpkDNQ |
The piano sounded veiled and highly distorted with the pre-amp in the audio chain, the whole presentation sounded NATURAL with no pre-amp!, yes the vocal,s sounded a little more solid and slightly bigger with the pre-amp, lol!, however everything else sounded washed out with the pre-amp, most seasoned audiophile,s know tubes give a bigger more organic presentation, that is the only illusion you have believing the pre-amp is better, my opinion is the no pre-amp desamated the pre-amp set-up, to let you know I have years of experience on what live sound sounds like, the no pre-amp is deemed the winner here! |
Interesting. Right now I am getting more votes for the preamp in the mix. Most people are saying that yes there is more detail or information with no preamp but they are concerned with long term listening fatigue. They find that the romantic presentation of the preamp will be more inviting for long term listening. Some say no preamp gives you all the information in the music which is what they prefer but the other group says that there is no point in all this information if it leads to short sessions. |
Been listening over 30+ yrs and have gone from pre-amps to passive pres to no pres and always have returned to using a pre-amp. Agree no pre can sound cleaner but it's also a but sterile sounding and loses the soul of the music. As others have inferred and it's what happened to me, I find myself having shorter listening sessions with no pre but once a pre is back in I can listen and enjoy my system for hours and hours on end with no fatigue. YMMV |
Reminds me of when we ran a ss amplifier (Threshold: T-400) with a tube pre-amp (Audio Research: Ref 2). Once we integrated home theater with our stereo (with a set up emphasis on stereo), we no longer used a pre-amp. It was a significant step up in hardware and the pre-amp actually compromised performance - interconnects no doubt were significant. |
Everyone has their own preferences and reasoning. I can personally say that either one is fine for me with my current electronics. That said, the ref 6se provides a bigger soundstage, s little more smeared but you don’t really notice it unless you have the dac to compare it to. The dac certainly adds more minute details and nuances not easily picked up through the preamp but you gotta be looking for them. For low level listening sessions id choose dac direct all day but once I move that volume knob then I feel as if the Preamp begins to become more and more appealing the louder I go. If you look at the comments on YouTube , you'll see most prefer the preamp in the mix. |