@WCSS
So let me get this straight. You said
"If you can’t tell a difference at all then this means I should keep the cheapest PC out of the 3 and sell the rest."
So if we (listening over the internet with our computers) can't tell the difference between the 3 PC's, you will keep the cheapest? Seriously? Are you really going to rely on the sound quality of our computers?
When I evaluate an aftermarket PC on my system I listen for detail, clarity, tonal balance and a deep, tight tuneful bass.
On your last 'cable shootout' I could hear (somewhat) detail, tonal balance (down to upper bass only) and decay (reverberation time). I wouldn't buy or sell anything based on listeners voting after listening over the internet through their computers.....just saying.
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+1 ron17. WC this is YOUR journey and the only person who should be judging sound quality and what is liked is YOU. Keep what you like, yes it's fun to be part of your journey but we all have our own preferences.
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I was being sarcastic......since when do I buy what people tell me to buy here .... |
ron17,
Although recently I encouraged WC to get professional quality mikes to make the recordings more revealing, I have been amazed that I was able to hear the essential differences between amps from his present setup and my mediocre stock computer sound. Still, I think more subtle cable differences will be harder to demonstrate with his present setup. Also, mid and HF material shows more differences than bass, as with the last Gryphon/Constellation video. I couldn't tell the difference with the opening bass material, but the guitar and voice showed the differences.
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viber6, IMHO you really need to at least be using a good pair of headphones plugged into your computer. |
@viber6
Not being able to hear if the bass is muddy, bloated, full sounding, tight, tuneful etc....would be a deal breaker for me....regardless what the midrange and top end are doing.
I do understand this is just for fun though, and the OP would never buy something based on what posters request or whine about.....well except the Wilson DAW speaker.
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Lol @ Ron
The DAW was on my radar because I heard it twice at 2 different shows and liked it since axpona 2019. It is a good speaker but I’ve got mixed opinions so far. Can’t talk about it just yet. Don’t want to jump the gun. The only thing I’ll say is that the w20se is CRAZY AMAZING. |
jetter,
I did try my superb pro quality Beyerdynamic 880 headphones plugged into the computer. Still nowhere near the sound quality utilizing these headphones in a great noncomputer system. I was investigating getting some pro powered speaker monitors from the USB output and dac. To me, it is not worth spending money on a system vastly inferior to my regular system. I just enjoy the music from youtube without obsessing about its sound quality. |
ron17,
Even though I couldn't hear the differences in the opening bass material from the last video, I bet that they were audible in WC's room live. With the Gryphon, if the mids/HF are clearer than the Constellation, the odds are that the bass is clearer, tighter and more tuneful as well.
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@viber6
Of course the bass material was audible in the OP’s room. My point was that you cannot hear the differences in deep bass over most computer systems. Bass (below 100hz) is so important in a system.
"With the Gryphon, if the mids/HF are clearer than the Constellation, the odds are that the bass is clearer, tighter and more tuneful as well."
Maybe maybe not. I’ve heard cables and components that sounded wonderful from the midrange up but had a muddy, too prominent or too little bass. You won’t be able to hear that on a standard computer.
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I previously sent some posts and videos regarding the GT Audioworks speakers as Jay visited our exhibit at Axpona. The speakers have the latest upgraded drivers and sound even better when Jay had heard them at Axpona. I just took this video with the regular microphone in my iPhone and it sounds pretty good. https://youtu.be/7P5LJlUMkqY |
That sounds incredible... |
Yes. We can ear the tubyness of the Lampizator, organic very satisfying sound. The soundstage must be enormous. |
WC,
Just buy the GTA alone, and the sub later. It beats any dynamic speaker for clarity and naturalness, and the Neolith for HF extension. It is spacious and still focused, unlike the bloated, inflated image of the Neolith. And it is way cheaper than any of them. You can carry on your business buying and selling electronics and cables, but make this GTA a keeper speaker. With your superb Gryphon and DCS, you'll have even more clarity and spaciousness than in the video with the Lampi and Pass. Even in a larger room, you won't need any more power than your Gryphon for these efficient speakers.
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i am contemplating the GTA. It is on my radar, but i need to do my homework before.
Anyhow, i wanted to say that those of you who found the constellation audio "muffled" or "smeared" should probably stay away from luxman as well. I disagree with what was said about constellation, but i do understand that not everyone likes the same so it is all fair. Remember, if you do not like Constellation, then you have zero business buying Luxman. You will not like it either. |
I second viber6, I own an earlier GTAW speaker and I've heard their rooms at CAF for years and each year they have been better and in my top 3 rooms of the show. The GTA 3.2R's performance is right there with the best cost no object and paired with 3 12" OB servo subs per side are sublime, certainly my end game speaker system that checks all my boxes. Now I'm wondering what new (or bring back a previous amp-Block or Pass) amp will be brought in to make the DAWs sing for you? |
Thanks guys for your input.
The new GT Audio Works Reference 3’s will be completed in 4-6 weeks. The model 3.2 is fully upgradeable to the new Reference 3 planar drivers for a reasonable charge. Unlike other manufacturers that come out with a 20.1 then a 20.7 speaker and you have to basically sell what you have And take a huge loss- that is not the case with GT Audio works the speakers have a lifetime upgradability warrantee and lifetime warranty on the drivers. We have been selling speakers going on nine years and our sales have been increasing every year.
You truly have to hear this speaker in person I know the videos only give you somewhat of an idea of what the speaker can do. You have to experience the dynamics transparency and virtual reality that this speaker exhibits.
The New membrane is even more of a resemblance to Kevlar - in that the way the membrane is constructed prevents any type of distortion when high volumes are presented to the driver-this coupled with pure 6N copper traces, vibration technology control built into the frames and lack of a crossover Will contribute to a sound that seems to defy description.
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WC,
Words are always inadequate to describe sound, but both "muffled" and "warm" refer to how the natural edges of transients are rounded and subtracted from the total overtones of the sound. Also, when I heard an early version of the GTA speaker in Steve's large home room, driven by only a 60 watt Pass, it sounded neutral but not "muffled" or "warm." I did not hear the typical warmth of Pass. That is a testament to the neutrality and detail of the GTA. However, if I heard it with my own neutral Mytek or your Gryphon, I probably would have described the Pass as being muffled only by comparison.
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The word warm has nothing to do with the word muffled. They are two completely different things. You have the natural warmth of live music. A Cello or a bass/baritone singer or a bass has natural warmth. If you subtract its natural warmth then you are thinning out the sound. Many times when I tweak, I make my system both more natural (and more naturally warm) and more detailed at the same time. Many people call "thin" sounding amps neutral. You can only know how neutral an amp is (not warm tilted or bright tilted, etc.) is by doing a straight wire bypass test on it (yes, it can be done....a friend was doing it back in the 1970s).
If you listen to a system in someones home, you are hearing the sound of every single thing in that system: the AC, the AC conditioning, the AC power cords, the source, the recording, the preamp, the amp, all the cables, whether the cables are on the floor or not, the footers and equipment stands, the room, the room treatments, the speakers, the speaker set up, etc. etc. etc. To make a statement that some speaker must be neutral because you do not hear the "color" of some amp is simply not correct. You are hearing the whole enchilada. How do you know which component is doing what unless you A/Bed every component (including the AC power) with another component? In fact, if a component (speaker, in this case) was totally neutral then the color of the component (or whole system) would not be subtracted out. In fact, the color of the component or system before it would be even more evident.
I have no doubt that the GT Audio speakers are incredible. I have been following them since they were first shown years ago, when they were $3K including subs. He has since made them look way better and sound way better....and of course, they now cost some serious $20K plus. However, I would buy these things over the conservative $100K+ front firing box speakers. My sense is that they would blow my mind......just hearing them through my $29 Altec computer speakers blows my mind. If the Ref 3 drivers are that much better than what have been shown then OMG, OMG, OMG!!!!! Get rid of those freakin boxes!!!! The only box speaker that excites me is the Tekton biggies....when you have 14 low mass tweeters going all the way down to 300hz......you are going to have some seriously transparent sound. If you modded the Tektons with better xover parts, etc.(about 11K for the biggest ones modded) it would truly be mind blowing. However, if I had more money then the GT Audio speakers would be in my room. Under $10 K you have the Spatial open baffle speakers and the GR Research open baffle speakers that are both incredible. I bet the Muraudio electrostat hybrid speakers are really nice but they have limited dynamic range...something I would not want. Hey, once in a while I want 110db+ peaks.....don’t you? Jimi Hendrix....or Mahler, or drums, or whatever.....just once in a while...he he. |
Warm muffins. Sounds delish! 🤗 |
what a contrast. i find the luxman pair to be anything but ‘muffled’. it’s very transparent and detailed. very
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ricevs,
I agree about your speaker assessment. Your Tekton MOAB's have a lot going for them, although I have never heard them.
I also agree that live music sometimes has warmth, which is the case in soft wooded rooms and halls, and at a distance where there is HF rolloff. However, at close range, the tonality of voices and instruments is surprisingly dry and cool. The cello has body, but it also has dryness and rough edges from the micro and macro scraping of the bow on the string--I know because I am a violinist and sit close as a listener.
In general, live voices and instruments can have both warmth and detail, but all speakers are flawed and murky by comparison. Warm speakers tend to sacrifice detail, especially at HF. So I think it is appropriate to cheat and choose electronics/cables that bring out the detail which is revealed by close miking. Relative thinness is often a byproduct of this approach. Another factor is that scaling down the large dimension of the live stage to the much smaller dimension of the listening room will create relative thinness. Even with live instruments like a large piano, it will sound good on a large stage, but overwhelm a smaller room. To avoid bloating and inflation of the image, it is necessary to thin it down to where the listening room experience can suggest the same smaller and focused image in the live larger hall.
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Ok men ,
The powercord shootout will take place this week.
Audioquest dragon HC $9500 msrp versus Odin 1 $12k MSRP. The swap will only take place on the power amp and everything else will remain the same. Will the audioquest dragon be capable of closing the gab or even besting what the Odin 1 does ? Stay tuned to find out :) |
Not broken in and not given a chance to settle in once switched? For those reasons I’m out. |
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People are so nice on forums |
Lol..isn't that the truth huh ... |
This on the Gryphon amp? What about the Audiomica cord? Is that gone?
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It's here. I'll try it as well. |
Having only read descriptions of the Odin PC, I suspect that the AQ Dragon will sound 180 degrees different based on my experience.
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Neoliths , sonus Faber Aida, von scheikert vr55, vivid audio g1 s2,.... Hmmm decisions ... decisions..
And you could save up to the Grypohon Kodo also :-) Should work with your Gryphon amp. Have you ever tried any MBL speaker? The new Vimberg speakers are also interesting, I've only heard one at a show but would like to hear it more. They have some that might be in your price ranges but may be hard to find used yet. |
The new Shunyata Omega QR power cord ( $9000.00 ) should be on your list as well WC. there getting alot of high praise on AudioAficionada.com
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The reports I've been getting on the shunyata omega by some of my most trusted sources have not been stellar at all.... Word is one reviewer actually sent that cable back and did not review the cable in order to not burn bridges. |
Gee, if you can’t trust trusted sources who can you trust? 😳
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I am relaying the message. Have no way of giving my personal opinion on it until I try it. |
9k for a PC? Even at 50% off that's a lot. Again have to thank WC for I got that demo Audiomica ac which blew away my Cardas Clear Beyond. I'm a very happy camper.
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hello WCI've been following this thread with interest, even though cabling is beyond my comprehension.I would be interested in your opinion on all the speakers you have auditioned, and how you would rank them. I am specifically looking at MA pl500 11 as the might stack up against some of your favorites.thanks Ross
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I also find your you tube vids very informativer
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Thanks Ross. I'd have to think about your question. Maybe I'll do a video |
whitecamaross
Looking forward to the Cable shoot-out.
Happy Listening!
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Cable shootout https://youtu.be/nOCZ5mqGiC8Please select the cable you prefer and I will count all the votes in a week and then I’ll declare the winner based on your feedback. I’m shocked at how easy it is to tell the differences between all 3 powercords. .enjoy ! And please watch the video several times before you give your vote ! Once you declare your winner, I'll give my thoughts. |
After about 45 minutes of A/B’ing...
#2 & 3 are by far the winners here. Much more depth and sophistication in their presentations. #1’s presentation is "thick" and quite 1 dimensional. I’d have to hear another song between 2 & 3 to see if 3 tilts a bit much to the highs. #2 seems a bit richer and more organic in the mids while still maintaining a nice airy detailed quality with very good slam in the bass.
If #3 can sound organic and balanced on a more treble forward song while maintaining a nice balance top to bottom that would assuage a bit of trepidation on judging it’s overall quality for me. I have a feeling that this song could be covering up a very treble forward presentation here.
IMO this song by itself is not the best choice to decide on the winning presentation. IMO it’s actually quite bad since it’s so bass and lower mid heavy that it’s going to mask what would otherwise be an overly bright presentation.
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#1 is Odin pc I think.
#2 and #3 is a more difficult choice. My guess would be #2 is Audioquest and #3 Audiomica.
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I think it’s difficult to really hear the difference’s through computer speakers but from what I hear I would say I like #3 the best.
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I just relistened on my class A tube setup. 1st listen was through Lyndorf using my Modwright Oppo as the DAC.
On 2nd listen all 3 sound better.
#1 though better on tubes is still much flatter and 2 dimensional.
#2 sounds really well balanced to me. Presentaion is detailed open, and airy while retaining a very rich organic presentation in the mids with good control and expression of the bottom end.
#3 sounds like it has quite a bit of treble energy which makes it sound more detailed but I'd be concerned on less bass and midrange rich music that the presentaion would be a bit strident.
We need to hear 2 & 3 on another better balanced song with less bass and lower mid range energy.
My guess would be
1. Audiomica
2. Odin
3. AQ Firebird
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Thank you all for your feedback. Keep your feedback coming. I'll let everyone know which cable is which in s few days so that everyone has a chance to listen. |
The introductory bass is muddy on all 3, so I skip to 20 seconds later when the guitar comes in and then the voice appears. The first minute after the guitar starts tells the story, otherwise to spend almost 4 minutes on each is tiring. Still listening and trying to judge.
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Very close on my regular iMac. #2 seems most focused on voice and sparkly/twangy on guitar. My preference is #2, then #3, then #1.
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@Viber6 and I agree.... In descending order of preference: #2, #3, and way down... #1... #1 may sound outwardly energetic, but it's actually wheezy and shallow in the vocals.
G. |
