Isn’t it fun trying all sorts of different equipment? One of the sweeter sounding amplifiers that I really enjoy are my Nakamichi. Even their lower cost AV-10 receiver had remarkable sound quality.
My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
20,890 responses
Viber, If you are raving about Steve’s speaker the way you are, why would you use a lousy 100 dollar rane eq on them? No offense but is your hearing so damaged due to playing violins? I would love to see the settings on the rane eq that you use. Can Steve post a pic of the rane settings you are using? I am curious to know if you are boosting the hell out of the high frequencies which is why you use a rane eq. Who pollutes a speaker that is said to be as clear as water by using a rane eq? Also, when are you cutting the check for the gt audio speakers? I mean, with all the leg work Steve is doing to accommodate your entire set up i would image you are definitely going to buy their speakers... It would be the only way that your comments would hold any weight here... If i heard those speakers in my room and was blown away the way you are and there was no doubt that i am head over heels with them, I’d be telling Steve that the check is in the mail as is the case with many reviewers. When something leaves an impression on me that I can’t get it out of my head, i move whatever it takes in order to make it mine. I really hope you do give Steve the business he deserves from you. If you feel that deep down they are not the speaker for you then I’d stop talking about them if i were you. It makes it worse the more you praise them and they are still not in your possession. I really hope he's not wasting his time with you. This leads me to share with you one of my future videos. It will be about WHAT DOES A DEALER need to do in order to earn your business? ( I will itemize these things) and i will also call out the bs that many "Audiophiles" pull with dealers. Many dealers asked me to speak up and i agreed with them as long as I can also call them out on their practices and they said "fair enough". I suspect this video will be one big controversial video since this topic never really comes up on YouTube. |
Full disclosure--I am friendly with faxer (Steve) who just posted this video of the latest GTA panel speaker with the open baffle subwoofers. This is the same song from the last Jay video of the Alexx with Boulder from the start. Easy to go back and forth. Steve just got the same microphone that Jay is using. I heard this setup at his place on Dec 23. I haven't spoken with him since that visit, and I assume he is using that new microphone with his phone, just like Jay. Here is what I hear. The GTA is much crisper than the Alexx on the voice and guitar. It is drier, which I think is more true to life. The voice on the GTA is more immediate and throaty, whereas on the Alexx it is more chesty, veiled, warmed and smoothed over. And this GTA is with the euphonic Lampi dac and Pass preamp and amp. Imagine the even more startling clarity with Jay's Boulder or Gryphon electronics, and the ultra transparent clear DCS Rossini. I predict that many people here will prefer the warmer, darker Alexx sound, but let's see what everyone thinks. This latest revision of the GTA is FAR superior to any Maggie ever made, for reasons that Steve can explain better than me. One added attraction is that the sweet spot is quite large, so 3 people can sit together comfortably on Steve's couch and hear very similar sound. The sound is slightly clearer in the exact middle. When I visited, I toed the panels in fully, so that the midpoint of the panels were aimed at my ears. The main driver on the panel is 8" wide, but the actual membrane is only about 5.5" wide. A narrower straight panel is the ideal for full freq radiation. I praise Greg, the designer for the best implementation of the theoretical principles I have talked about, and my objections to other large and curved panels on the market is now clearly revealed. Greg, like me, owned several Maggies over the years, and he wanted to improve on them. I congratulate him for his accomplishments. I am returning Dec 30 with my Rane EQ, Bryston 2.5B SST2, zip cord speaker wires, LiveWire RCA interconnects. With Steve's permission, I hope to make a video of all this, with different settings of my EQ to illustrate what I have been talking about. |
FYI – I am using the same Shure MV8+ microphone as Jay. I didn’t want to post a 19 minute video to compare the songs that Jay had posted so I am splitting them up. Sorry for the inconvenience. https://youtu.be/ze4Enfzt9CE |
Instead of using nebulous concepts of synergy, it is more productive to objectively describe what you hear, like neutrality, clarity, focus, warmth, etc. I distinctly remember in one of Jay's videos where he said that the Boulder preamp is more musical with rounding of edges, compared to the Pandora preamp. It is probably not in print on this thread. Golfnutz just described how he perceived the Boulder as more relaxed than Gryphon. This differs from the perceptions of myself, mrdecibel and others here as well as on the YT videos. All this put together shows how it may be an apples/oranges contest, and I must admit that I didn't hear a BIG difference. So I still speculate that on the spectrum of neutrality/clarity/focus on one end at 10, and warmth/relaxed on the other end at 1, Pandora preamp + Boulder amp is 10, Boulder + Boulder is 9, Pandora + Mephisto is 8, Boulder + Mephisto is 7. Let's defer to Jay to state what he actually said about Pandora vs Boulder preamps, and then do the listening to the 4 combos I proposed. This is a lot of work, I admit, and mainly of value for Jay who will be making decisions about what he keeps and sells. If he wants to do videos on this, that would be great, but only if he wants our input on this expensive decision making. This will be a tough decision, because Jay and most of us thought that he would never give up the Mephisto, since he went to all the trouble of getting expensive stands and many types of cables to try with the Mephisto. Cables are a factor, but much more subtle than the differences between preamps and amps. Cables are unlikely to alter his decision between Boulder and Gryphon preamps and amps. |
Listened to the YT video thru my laptop and into my stereo system today. I found both to be top tier, and enjoyed the presentation Jay put together on this one. For me, my preference would be the Boulder given how it sounded more relaxed without giving anything up to the Gryphon (outer edging of notes on Boulder was superb). The Gryphon just seemed a bit sharper in contrast, which might lead to some fatigue at higher volume levels. I found the Boulder system to have so much finesse without losing any detail. Again, both great amps/preamps, and really no losers. Have a Merry Christmas Everyone. |
I’ve tried boulder 2110 and Mephisto and it was good but maximum synergy happens with pandora and Mephisto. There is also one thing that people have failed to mention here: WHICH CABLES IS JAY USING HERE??? Could you be listening to the cables through the boulder? Could it be that maybe the mephisto prefers the cables being used and the boulder is simply letting letting you hear the cables? That is something that nobody has mentioned :) |
I hear the Boulder combo as more neutral/detailed than the Gryphon combo. But I recall that Jay found the Gryphon preamp more neutral/detailed than the Boulder preamp. So this is a bit of an apples/oranges mixed comparison, which is confusing. The Gryphon preamp + Boulder amp would likely give the ultimate in neutrality/detail. Conversely, the Boulder preamp + Mephisto would likely give the most warmth. Listening should be done with 4 combinations to really tell--I am only speculating now. Suppose Jay wants the middle of the road package of good clarity and a little warmth--he would go with the complete Boulder package. Technically speaking, engineers might have valid reasons for their packages, but it doesn't follow that subjective listening confirms their technical designs. In the real world, as ricevs says, most people already have their favorite preamp, and then proceed to A/B power amps to see which they like the best. I condemn sales/marketing people who push packages, instead of advocating a more flexible approach of mixing and matching. In some cases, the package is the best--in others, it is not optimum. |
I preferred the Boulders' sound to the Gryphons' each time in multiple listening sessions. The Bs were cleaner, tighter, more finely textured, closer to what I hear when playing the song (first one) direct from Tidal, etc...than the Gs (which of course, sound great). Gs were a bit grainy relative to Bs, even a bit confused/hot/disjointed in the treble (in some spots) on songs 2 and 3. You mentioned in a recent video (while showing the acoustic treatment in your room) that you have no echo in the room. I read through all (I think) of the responses to videos on Youtube and here on Agon and didn't see anyone mention anything about an echo in your room. I am assuming (perhaps inaccurately) that you saying there is no echo in the room is a response to my talking about a room resonance (at the mic location) being helped/minimized by you switching the port on the Wilsons. Room resonances/modes are not echo/slap echo, mid to high frequency reflections that the panels you have are designed to mitigate. Assuming you have the typical absorption panels (correct me if not), those are most effective at mid and high frequencies. Unfortunately, the nasty room modes (based on your room dimensions) in the range (roughly) from 20hz to 250hz cannot be controlled effectively with 2 to 4 inch absorption panels. Changing speaker/speaker port and/or seating/mic positions can help but may affect negatively (hopefully not) other aspects like imaging, sound stage depth, etc..... Even though the port swap helped, I did notice a pesky resonance at roughly 2:13 and 2:49 of the video (yes, it was there at the same point in the song when the Gs were playing). Didn't have the resonance when I played using Tidal. Didn't try to listen for resonances on the other two tracks (perhaps with those songs those frequencies were not as pronounced). Anyway, not trying to do a treatise on acoustics. Others may take the ball and run with things like DBAs, helmholtz resonators, limp mass absorbers, chunks, superchunks, etc....The company/person that helped you treat your room should have given you a comprehensive analysis and explanation of minimally what your treatments will do but, as importantly, what they won't do. I know years ago people were pushing you to "get a dedicated room". You have a nice room, could be dialed in a bit more. If you like (for a small fee) I can set up a consultation! I am joking, of course!!!! Everything changes once you start getting paid for something, as you know! Keep your skin thick, Jay. Too often you take the bait with others. No response is usually the best response. Depending on one's personality, hard to do. A suggestion offered by another that I second is to not tell people which is playing (but don't change the sequence when switching between system one and two). Also from a psych perspective, keeping the lighting intensity and color consistent is important. As mentioned previously, I listen through my main system (OB, 3-way, fully active). Headphones, I suppose, are next best but still not desirable in getting the most accurately visceral experience. The best recording/mastering studios use expensive monitors for their work (yes they use phones too, but the product will never go out the door if it doesn't pass the loudspeaker test). Only a few have said how they listen to your vids...hmmmmm? Curious the percentage of people that use streamers/computers /(smart tv with quality audio out to speakers?) hooked up to full rangers? Great work. Thanks for the effort. |
I was merely responding to your.."is not how equipment of this level is compared" Again, just your opinion. I don’t care which one does what (some would say wins) but I am curious as to what they do individually. I waited for you to evaluate the Merrill amp on its own....but it was never done....at least as far as I remember. It does not matter what you do. I choose happiness, and I hope you all do. I want to know what every single thing does.....that is how I learn. I don’t learn anything from A/Bs or two pieces of equipment. I don’t buy things that way and most of us don’t. For many, this thread is fun. I hope it remains that way. I personally, am interested in what is possible. For instance, I would never listen to the Gryphon gear without serious audiophile fuses. You are simply not hearing what they can do....and since they cost essentially nothing compared to the rest of your system......well.....I understand you are AFRAID of the manufactures taking you to audio purgatory if they ever found out you are using a non stock fuse.....he he. If you do not run each piece of gear at its maximum RPM then you will never know how fast it can go. A Gryphon piece with stock fuses is very compromised sonically. I would never say anything about an A/B with something else unless I ran each piece with all its governors off. Well, to each his own. Again, Merry every moment. We can all enjoy whatever game we play....and let others enjoy their games......its called win/win. Nothing wrong with your game. I play a little different....that is all. Enjoy the ever forever love. If you ever want to hear what a great fuse can do "for free".....I can mail you (for free) some copper foil with conductive adhesive and you can just wrap your stock fuses with it and listen. Then, after you realize what you have been missing you can buy some audiophile fuses to substitute. You could buy a few stock cheap fuses and then you can go back and forth between a stock fuse and a copper foiled fuse to make sure of what you are hearing. Learning is fun.....learning gets you goosebumps! https://www.amazon.com/Copper-Conductive-Adhesive-1inch-12yards/dp/B018RDZ3HG |
You sound like an antagonist today on this beautiful Christmas Eve. You ok? Everyone is having a great, adult, polite discussion without any sort of argument. I did the shoot out using matching components BECAUSE this is what makes sense since I have both linestages. We are trying to get a spoonful of the gryphon and boulder sound. I’m not sure why that is so hard to comprehend? The only discrepancy we were trying to figure out today was whether I should have used stock powercords or not with the Gryphon and nothing else. I think everyone here agreed with me that I used the correct linestages for this evaluation? Lastly, if you " really don't care " as to which set up wins because you would never own these components, then why even bother criticizing? Isn't that a bit contradicting? |
Why would anyone not mix and match components. You do it all the time. Someone may already have a great preamp and they just want to know what the amp does. Because a company makes a good preamp or whatever does not mean you will like the "matching" amp or whatever.. Look what you did with the Merrlll amp to make it sing. Of course, it would take much more time to A/B each piece......but I would NEVER do it the way you are. Of course, I really do not care which is better in whatever way, as these things would be never on my radar, even if I were a billionaire.....much more fun to make your own, and with tri-amping you can get rid of all those distorting xover parts and extra binding posts and tweak to your hearts content. "AS IT SHOULD BE" is just your opinion. There are no rules in high end audio. It is each man for himself. Merry Christmas, everyone!......may you all feel the peace, love, light and joy that permeates every nanosecond of every moment....forever, and ever. |
The Boulders are immensely more refined, on the guitar at the beginning of the first tune....I can hear more nuance and decay... The Mephisto gets broomed over as its sounds a bit midrange forward with much less ambiance and air. The Boulders sound more real also. And that is with normal powercords on the Boulder. Imagine with something like Audioquest Dragons....So, Boulder monos have hidden additional potential.( which is just crazy considering they are magnificent even now ) Those who say the matchup is not fair ( mono vs stereo). Sorry, I correct you , Mephisto is basically two « glued together » mono amps with two powercords feeding two separate power supply. So it’s monos vs monos in reality ! |
fantastic effort jay. sounds phenomenal. @pokey77 you are absolultely spot on. thats what gyphon owners say.it has a slightly warmer,darker recessed presentation boulder has a slightly lit and forward presentation with more energy in the highs. boulder hands down wins not because its my personal preference., because you can always tune a boulder system with wamer cables like for example kubala sosna or transparent, but you cannot tune a gryphon system otherwise. you can tame the energy in the highs, but if in first place its dark or recessed you cannot get back the energy |
My comments for YT. Posted before I read most comments on YT and none here on Agon. It is interesting to see that the Boulder sections are more brightly lit and the Gryphon sections the lighting is turned down some. The Boulder, for me, has more resolution, air, ambience, digs deeper, whereas the Gryphon is darker/warmer and seems to have less ambience and overall resolution; it seems to close down some from the giant image the Boulder throws. It will be very interesting to find out if the Gryphon is using the stock PCs or the AQ PCs. My guess is that it is on the stock PCs. Regardless, I'd have to live with both these systems for a while to definitively decide which one to keep because I don't think one system completely does better than the other. I do lean toward the Boulder for its bass control and bigger soundstage ambience and air and this is to be expected because of the mono blocks and significantly more available power. Jay, gotta say, this is by far for me your best ever video - excellent thought process in editing and putting the video together along with the direction and the descriptive text to let the viewer know exactly what is going on. BTW, I used a good set of ear buds and could easily hear all I described above - I listed multiple times and had fun doing so. Merry Christmas. |
Boulder has more detail, showing up negatives and weaknesses of the recordings, imo. Gryphon rounds it all out a bit, similar to adding a clean and not too tubey tube stage. Why I recommended the recording I did above. This recording will tell you what you want to know. Not much else, recorded, will do this. |
You all ready for the comparison of boulder and gryphon? I can't stress it enough how important it is to at least use headphones. I was driving to the gym just now and played the comparison in my car and i preferred one set up and then I get out the car, put any headphones on and now i prefer the other set up. I am telling you all, it is crucial that you listen to this with good headphones. I also keep reminding you all to listen to the video at least 3 times. Don't be shocked if you change your mind on what you prefer each time you listen to it. The video will go live shortly and i hope you all enjoy it ! |
grey9hound, I could have posted the Rossini William Tell Overture, last 3 min which is the famous Lone Ranger theme. But the Tchaikovsky Symphony is all encompassing, with every instrument of the orchestra on display, at all dynamic levels and tempos. Also, the passion of the conductor is remarkable, so even if the listener doesn't appreciate the music just by closing his eyes and listening, the conductor's passionate body language helps understanding. I didn't want to cherry pick isolated fragments for shock value, because this destroys the continuity of the whole piece. The piece is in 4 sections, with different moods. The first ends around 19 min, etc. Take it in small doses at a time, and it will grow on you. I can see how you might fall asleep after 2 min, but the experience is like a champion starting out with a few light punches, and devastating you later. |
Hey all, happy holidays to everyone. A fair comparison between 2 products can only be, when the cables are the stock cables, or, all of the cables are the same. Cables ALL add their own sound (personalities ) into the system, just as an amplifier topology being used. Cables have not been addons for the longest time, but are COMPONENTS. So are amp stands. They significantly change, generally for the better, the characteristics of the sound of the amp sitting on it. Unless these parameters are met ( for the same reason a single recording would need to be played between the two ), a conclusive analysis cannot be determined. Just the way it is, ime. Anyway, I am looking forward to the Ulfs finding their way into the system. A highlighted recording I recommend for everyone, is one that will truly be " the one " to use, for evaluating anything in your system, as it goes with what I have always said : we have always been limited by the recordings we listen to. Anyway, the cd or digital download I speak of is : " Drums and Bells " (comparing sticks ), by the extraordinarily talented Tony Minasian. His other recordings are excellent as well, and 2 more releases are expected shortly. You can all thank me later, and I do not collect a commission off the sale of this. Be well, all. Always, MrD. |
Jay mentioned using headphones to listen, but if you have a way to play it (youtube) on your own home system, or your main listening rig , it will be a lot closer to what things would sound like in your room. I have not tried this but if you have a smart tv , you can run the youtube app and hook up optical or coaxial cable from the output on the TV to your DAC? Pre-Amp..etc. I have no idea how good the sound is from the tv output, but I am pretty sure most of the newer tvs have this. It might be worth a try.. |
Here is my choice for one of the best big orchestral classical pieces of all time, Tchaikovsky Symphony no. 4. One of the greatest conductors of the 20th century, Leonard Bernstein, conducting one of the top orchestras, the NY Philharmonic, 1974. The piece has everything interesting sonically, with dynamics from soft to large scale. The sound is natural, with a proper amount of stage sound, but not too much reverberation. All instruments and tempos. A great interpretation. The video permits you to see all the action, which helps understanding of this long 45 min piece. Take the time to get to know it. Youtube sound is mediocre, but you can use your servers/streamers to access it, or another recorded performance with the same musicians, or another recording of this piece with other performers. https://youtu.be/jyT3F0rlhYY |
Can't please everybody all the time and some just behave as if they were little children. Instead of behaving badly, let Jay just have his videos the way he wants them. He's already done you all the favor of entertaining your wants and he has chosen to do it the way he wants and with logic too. Let's have a Merry Christmas! |
Lol, too funny. I can imagine. I can imagine tecno listening to a new speaker, then being asked what he thinks of it. His response would be, I need to know who made the drivers before I can answer that. Not sure why the issue with the stock Boulder cables. They make cables specifically to complement their product, and feel that using anything else would take away from the experience, that’s how well made they are, and how confident they are about them. It’s strange that we get the Tekton haters here, but none of the anti cable guys. Many of the anti cable guys seem to also be Tekton haters that I’ve seen on other threads. |
Well I am not sure that I picked unprocessed songs. I think we all mostly listen to music that is processed in some way or another. I probably should pick some Music that is recorded live for that. I think in todays world there is very little recorded music that is not processed . There is a lot of Old Jazz Standards "so to speak",Trios and Quartets ..etc ", but personally , I find them mostly boring or repetitious... not all mind you ... but most I actually picked out 2 songs of Jazz from the Live London Jazz Scene . 2 modern Blues songs and 1 or 2 songs from the albums I mentioned earlier. I di8d not get that sent to WCSS until about 4AM today. I hope he got them in time. |