My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!
So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:
Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series NAD M25 PARASOUND HALO PARASOUND CLASSIC KRELL TAS KRELL KAV 500 KRELL CHORUS ROTEL RMB 1095 CLASSE CT 5300 CLASSE CA 2200 CLASSE CA 5200 MCINTOSH MC 205 CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7 OUTLAW AUDIO 755 LEXICON RX7 PASS LABS XA 30.8 BUTLER AUDIO 5150 ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005
With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer. My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)
NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes) Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)
Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)
rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)
cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)
parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)
lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)
McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.
butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)
pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.
classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)
Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:
PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp. Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass.
It is articulate sounding too Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either. Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.
That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!
That’s correct. Presentation 2 was without footers. That said, according to everyone here the first presentation had more detail and everything else you mentioned. I guess we all hear different things because of our set ups at home ?
@whitecamaross You sure there wasn't a typo on the results of the presentation? Presentation 2 seemed to have more detail, air and soundstage which is what the CM footers brought to my system.
Can't sell them just yet. I will try them under momentum m400s next but I won't be waiting 30 days. I'll be doing 7 -10 days and thats it. Momentum are with the footers as of yesterday so I'll have my impressions next week. With my 2150s, the footers were a bust. They didn't live up to the hype and they robbed all the great qualities that the amps have. The average user will choose the first presentation (although the majority selected presentation number 2 on the polls which by the way which is what I selected) because the footers do change the sound are first glance but the long term effects of that sound are just not enjoyable. It reminded me of the old class d amps from the past. Very tilted on the high frequency, very "wired or caffeinated" feel after you sit there for quite sometime. Yes, when I removed the footers I felt it took away the extra boost of energy but it gave it the naturalness and beauty. It feels as with footers under the boulder you are looking at a woman with a lot of make up but who isn't really pretty without it ? And with the boulder with no footers you're looking at a girl that is pretty and who is only wearing lipgloss on her face and nothing else. Hope it makes sense.
Thank you for a very complete and honest review of the CM footers with your Boulder monos. What they did to your system was exactly the opposite of what they did to my system. They gave my system a more natural, holographic, warm yet detailed sound. Like you and I said, the Boulder amps are so well built that isolation does not improve the sound....good news for Boulder owners. Put your money elsewhere......Let me know if you want to sell the footers.
WC I remember months ago when the importer of Audiomica cables sent you their cables to try and said something to the effect "have a listen and tell all your honest opinion good or bad" now that's how all manufacturers should do it. If they truly believe in their products. I'm now a believer in Audiomica cables and have slowly been adding more to my system. So please be honest and keep telling us how you really feel about a piece of gear and don't worry about anyone saying anything behind your back. Be true to yourself and your followers.
haha, yeah I figured there was more to the story than we knew.
When you think about it though, it isn't really surprising that manufacturers don't want you to review. Why would they when they can go old school and get a sweetheart review by magazines?
Just keep giving the honest opinions. That is what matters.
When I get "messed with" I roll up my sleeves. We can always settle it like adults and leave things alone and move on or we can do it old school. I don’t mess with nobody and that’s why I am in my room alone (the wife doesn’t care to listen to audio - just tv shows). Even she knows to not come in here to push buttons on any gear because she has her big tv and whatever she needs inside. There’s more that I couldn’t mention on the live chat. If I brought it up, you all only got a slight taste of the whole pie I deal with. You are only going to be punked for as long as you let others do it to you. At that point, you should blame yourself for letting others do it to you. Here’s a little background about me: When I was little, I was bullied, had my shoes literally stolen from me several times and walked home barefoot. I was weak, the opposition used scare tactics to steal from me and I let them get away with it. Granted I was like 7 years old or something like that. Now I’m in my 40s, I know my rights (freedom of speech being one of them) and standing up for what I believe in as long as I’m not hurting others (this is key). If someone or something has it out for you, you have to get up and face it head first. This is the only way or it will continue and at that point you'll have to blame nobody else but you. I am a huge believer in not messing with anyone who is not doing anything to you unless of course they are doing something foul to someone else in front of you or one of your loved ones.
I agree with Kren0006 on this one. Not necessary to get into it with manufacturers. Making things sound bad of good at will is not the reputation you want. You’ve always worked very hard to get the best from every piece you’ve ever had in there. That’s who you are and the way it should be. Keep up the good work
Kinda disappointed in myself for not being able to guess that the new amps are D'agostino. I think you slightly misled (just a bit) by saying "new amplifier" (which implies stereo) so I was focused on stereo amps that you've had, not monos.
But when I heard the teaser video I wasn't so impressed by the sound quality and especially the noticeable reduction in bass. Should have known then it was D'Ag. Darn it. My streak is broken.
Constructive criticism: I think you are getting a little too hung up on manufacturers supposedly not wanting you to review, and publicly discussing it and warning them, etc. Makes it sound like you have a score to settle that will affect your objectivity. You even said you will make their stuff sound bad, or something to that effect. Not needed if your calling card is unbiased reviews.
Reading between the lines I almost think the D'Ag might be one of those - let's see. I myself never thought D'Ag (stereo amp, monos, or preamp) sounded great the first time around (in fact I can't remember myself ever thinking any of them won a shootout on your channel against anything you put them up against (Luxman, Merrill, Ayre, Gryphon, Audio Research, Simaudio if that was there at time, can't recall) - should have kept the JC1+ maybe that a good matchup??).
Anyway, the live chat was fun and interesting as always.
Lol. You are back ? It’s been a long time since you’ve posted here :)
I think people's opinion is really a matter of personal taste. Is anyone wrong for liking one presentation over the other? Nope... 31 out of 46 people chose presentation 2 so far and that just means more ears prefer presentation 2. Are they wrong? nope. Are they other 15 people wrong? nope.
I hesitate to weigh in on the CM blind test as I was listening through an iPad that predates the iPad Pro so I wouldn't trust the situation on a bet where the wager was to take out the garbage can to the curb... but I agree completely with ron17. To his description, I would add that first setup sounded more natural. Second presentation lost a little "life".
That I felt like I could hear a difference on a recording through the internet replayed over an ipad leads me to the question of whether I should book a padded room in a local, "special", hospital!
I already heard opus here... There is alot that I do here behind closed doors that I can’t share... Some dealers loan me stuff under the condition I don't post anything on my channel and so I have to respect that.
"I am very very excited to receive my custom-made transparent opus Gen 5 powercords next week. I was told yesterday by Transparent that i will have 95% of the performance with only a 48 hour break-in time and only miniscule improvements through the 200 hour mark. Now, THAT IS MUSIC to my ears."
Sounds like you are setting yourself up for "What the eyes see, your mind believes" with the new Transparent opus gen 5 PC......You want me to come to your house and blindfold you and switch between PC's so you won't be influenced by what you 'see' and want to like? lol
But why these youtubes files are so bad compared to the real cd?
That is the question to ask.... Why nobody asked this in the first place?
Am i the only one with this cd ?
The difference between the youtube files and the real cd are so great that it is difficult to believe, is someone has ever listened to the real cd on his system like me?
If yes i will not be the only one to say that the real cd is totally beyond the youtube horrible files....
The main point in audiophile listening is naturalness of the timbre for voices or instruments first imaging second.... If it is not there nothing is there... no?
Well I guess what you are saying is while doing a/b testing and you can see the products you are testing you will like the sound of the product you think you should like....not sure what that statement has to do with this blind test.
Like I stated before I use a mix of Critical Mass, Stillpoints and Nordost SortFut and SortKones. The CM products sounded terrible under my preamp but wonderful under my amp. I could 'see' the CM under my preamp and really wanted it to work / sound good, but that just wasn't the case. I moved footers and shelves (regardless of brand) until my ears told me what was the best combo.....not my eyes.
Again....not every isolation device works best with all equipment.
The 2 files on youtube are so horrible and unnatural artificial sound for S.Q. i downloaded the cd to verify ...
And in my system (500 bucks all in all )well embed mechanically, electrically and acoustically tough, there is not even a comparison between the horrible S.Q. of the youtube files of the Ray Lamontagne cd and the natural timbre of the voice and natural timbre of instrument in my audio system.... And the imaging is no more congested like on youtube files...
I guess i may sleep well with my audio system.... Sorry to seems rude.....
isn’t that something? "What the eyes see, your mind believes"... has anyone heard this before or something like it? i believe this is a quote from the movie "swordfish" with John Travolta... The power of delusion is real..
Gotta love the Boulder monos... they don’t have an ounce of dishonesty. The more i play with them, the better i can summarize my own journey through the many amplifiers i have owned. No wonder why they only replace their amps every 15-17 years. I am very very excited to receive my custom-made transparent opus Gen 5 powercords next week. I was told yesterday by Transparent that i will have 95% of the performance with only a 48 hour break-in time and only miniscule improvements through the 200 hour mark. Now, THAT IS MUSIC to my ears.
If these powercords are something special, i will know after 2 days of use. What is scary is how much better the 2150s could become with these powercords which should make the gap in performance between these amps and rest i have owned just brutal and too massive for any amp to close it. Now, if i could only get my hands on that Boudler 2120 dac... ugh.. i have been looking for that thing so badly and no luck!
I'm with you kren, I thought presentation #1 was more detailed and focused with longer reverberation time etc... #2 sounded flatter less lively. I'm not trying to guess where the footers are, just which presentation I preferred.
Coming soon... My raw opinion is coming tomorrow... I want more people to vote as well... That said, this is the reason WHY I use polls so that you all can actually see WHERE your ears are compared to the rest. I always urge you all to listen more than once and hopefully on different days. Yes, if you try to listen on different days you might be shocked. This quarantine taught me to be more patient than ever. I plan to do a live chat later today after I’m done with work. That’s where you all will see the amplifier that has made a come back!
I have the Martin Logan montis speakers. In my years with them I have heard them driven by Boulder, Jeff Rowland, and my own Spectral DMA 150. There are several second hand spectral at discount. An amplifier that fast can handle the speed of the esl panels as well as generate the current needed for the .5 ohm impedance at the high frequency. What spectral gives is the honest signal that the montis needs.
absolutely jay. when you reach to a system of this level.elecronics, amps and speakers become most transparent.and cables and accessories become least transparent comparatively and they are colored.so every change in cable or accessories lead to noticeable difference in sonic output and coloration.
Has anyone ever wondered the level of transparency that my current system must have? Think about it, you all are able to hear a footer change through youtube...that’s how ridiculously transparent the boulder gear is. That’s one of the most fantastic things about it. We have criticized youtube for compressing things and not really allowing us to hear everything and yet we can hear footers? If you could only be here to listen and analyze things in person, I think you’d be shocked. I'm happy you all can hear footers changes through youtube. That's pretty awesome 😎
Wednesday at 12pm ET you'll know my thoughts on this experiment. I want to give everyone the chance to to listen and watch the video first. Also, if I can, I'll be doing a live chat Tuesday night where I will unveil the amplifier that has made a return.
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