"...there is a sense of present and live-ness that only tubes can provide." Yep, completely agree with the above, but somehow I still use the XP-10 more than my other tube pre's because it performs better with pop music. For serious listening to "real" music I use a tube pre. I host a lot of parties with friends and family. |
andy2
Thank You for posting your impressions/thoughts of your system.You own a very interesting combo (CJ/Pass and Simaudio) pre-power amps. The XP-10 is very fine indeed, easy to integrated into any system as well. Conrad Johnson does make a very fine tubed pre-amp to boot.Good to read that you like it w/ the Simaudio. A long time ago, the way it was explained to me, Pop/Rock Music deserves solid -state gear.Everything else, get a tubed pre-amp.
Happy Listening!
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4hannons
Nice system as well! Happy Listening!
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Thanks for sharing. I went from a 14LS to 16LS, but never owned the 17... That 16LS is one honey of a preamp. When I see them come up from time to time, I always think somebody will be getting one hell of a preamp for $3000-$3500. |
fjn04,
Although I think the XP10 is a very good pre amp, I had wished I should have bought may be a 16LS or some Cary tube amps.
But then I design my own speakers so in that sense, the XP10 is more neutral and probably better since it allows me to hear more into the recordings and let me know better in term of tuning my speakers.
If I can make a general statement, the xp10 has better outline details whereas the 17ls has better inner beauty. |
cool thread, thanks for posting
perhaps your LS held back by the tubes.... ? |
"
perhaps your LS held back by the tubes.... ?"
A better set a of tube such as the Amperex 6299 would improve the sound but I don't think it will solve some of the 17LS weakness such as dynamic, bass, and linearity. I think in order to get the Xp10 neutrality, dynamic and linearity in a tube preamp, you probably to have to pay quite a bit more ... maybe Conrad Johnson ET7 or something similar. |
do yourself a favor and pick up some
MATSUSHITA / NATIONAL PCC88 / 7DJ8 tubes at Upscale Audio. Any brightness you had in the Pr17 will be a distant memory. Tonal qualities of the 17 will also improve significantly. Depending on the grade they run $30-$40 each. No Russian tube comes close. Then if you really want to hear a difference, try the TELEFUNKEN PCC88 / 7DJ8 also available at Upscale. Ran both in my Pr16. Tele's are $100 + each but really worth it IMO. |
"but I don't think it will solve some of the 17LS weakness such as dynamic, bass, and linearity."
Again try the Tele's. They'll do just that.
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"Again try the Tele's"
I wish life could be that simple. |
Not trying to spend your money, but some things may be simpler than you think :-). |
Andy, have you considered a CJ ET5, 7 or 7 II? I have been a longtime fan and user of CJ preamps, althought not a 17LS. I bought the DC’ed ET5 a few months ago and love it!
A CJ supplied Philips PCC88 is a great tube, especially compared to the EH6922.
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I was actually trying to look into the ET5 but I couldn't find any available here on Audiogon. It's interesting that the ET5 also uses JFET as the buffer output, so it's not really a purely tube preamp, but more as a hybrid. In that sense, it should have some similarity to preamp such as the XP10.My guess is CJ probably realizes that parallel the 6922 does have its downside such as sensitive to interconnect and input load to the amp. That's why the top of the line ART uses 20 of them which may solve the problem with additional current of 20 tubes. Ideally I would probably get a ART if one wants a purely tube preamp. My other candidate is the Cary SLP-05 but it was not available when I was purchasing the XP10.
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m@andy2 my tube recommendations not based on fixing everything just improving what you have....Nelson certainly makes a fine very listenable SS preamp.....have you heard an Ayre ? |
I haven't heard the Ayre preamp. It appears to be a solid state design. I think the XP10 performance probably represents a point of diminishing return and other parts of the system may represent a bottle neck. I think I've made up my mind my next preamp will be tubes. I am also getting a pair of Thiel CS2.4 so it will be interesting how they will work in my system. The CS2.4 is a first order time-aligned design. My own speakers are only first order but not time-aligned so it will be interesting to see if time-aligned will supposedly improve the soundstage.
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Don’t want to spoil the thread, but the only role of a preamp is to amplifier the signal a bit to make it better suited for the amp input circuit.
Most well made preamplifiers are good enough as long as they do not mess with signal resolution and transparency.
Not saying no preamp is better. In most cases a preamp is better. Just different preamplifiers for different tastes, some with tubes so sweeter , some brighter, some darker. No need to go all in $$ when getting one. Better invested $ should go on room/speakers , dac and amp.
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Yes, but some of us have multiple source devices and the Pre-amp also serves as a control unit for switching and volume control, balance, etc. enjoy |
andy2
an excellent decision to pick up a sweet pair of Thiel CS 2.4 loudspeakers. This is a honey of a speaker to state the very least.
Upon doing so, please join us over on the Thiel Owners thread here.
I look forward in reading more about you and your Audio journey.
Happy Listening! |
Sure, can't wait to the my Thiel. For me it's a bit sad that not more manufacturers try to do what he did.
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Warning Andy, once you go Thiel you get caught in the web of excellence. Not only will it ruin other speaker brands for you, you will also want more Thiels. 😂. I have 2 pair and wouldn’t hate having a third!
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Jim T
Dunlavey
Richard Vandersteen
the list is not long
Of course time and phase are both important.... the science of how people hear tells us this...
congrats on the Thiels
Re preamps - high end Audio like most things esoteric is all about diminishing returns
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Is Dunlavey still around? There was another manufacturer whose name has a native American origin but I can't quite remember. Thiel now is no longer making time-aligned speakers. There is another in Colorado that I can't seem to remember (it's "Mountain" something ...) So I think Vandersteen might be the one one that does claim to have time-aligned speakers.
Jon Atkinson at Sterophile says that the number of speakers can generate a perfect step input can be counted by the fingers on your hands.
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After having spent quite a bit of time between these two preamps, I was surprised that the 17LS is quite a bit brighter vs. the XP10 and the difference is not subtle. There is a bit of midrange forwardness on the 17LS as well. The 17LS has the EH tubes, so may be with a different tubes, the sound balance could be different. |
andy2
Thank You for the update. I liked the XP-10 and did not find it bright/forward at all. Happy Listening! |
