MQA DAC with Coax Output

I guess I will have to wait for the Arcam ST60 to replace my CXN.   

@zombiedad that picture means Roon took care of the first unfold for you, but the DAC is not applying the MQA digital filter. An MQA file consists of two parts. First, the higher res file is “folded” or “packed” down into 48khz. Second, information is encoded into the file that tells the DAC how to apply the D to A conversion. Roon is doing the first step, unpacking or unfolding the 48khz file back into the higher res 192khz file and sending that to your DAC. At that point your DAC applies its own D to A conversion since it’s not capable of decoding the MQA data. There are more complex details than that but that’s the gist of what you probably need to know. Long and short, you get a 192kHz file while only consuming the bandwidth of a 48kHz file.

Rockrider,  This app I downloaded from google app called "MCONNECT".
I use it to stream Qobuz hi res file and it will show the MQA unfold sampling rate as 24bit/192khz LOL.

https://ibb.co/jRn93X4

http://www.conversdigital.com/eng/product/product04.php

Depends on the master quality.  Usually 24/48  or 24/96
But this one from Diana Krall, show highest sampling.

I suspect that is Roon telling you what the Authenticated MQA decoded resolution would be, if your DAC could do it.  But I’m not a Roon expert. The base MQA file is 24bit/48khz, so that’s likely what you are hearing. 
By the way, if you are using Roon, forget Aurender. Aurender has chosen not to be Roon compatible. 

Rockrider,  Nice.  I wish I had the money lol.  Oh just right now I am streaming this Tidal music from my PC to the CXN.   Can you look at the screen shot.   

https://ibb.co/MZ4LH5g

Does it mean, I am playing at 24bit/192khz through room to my CXN ?

The LUMIN D2 has an internal DAC, pretty similar functionally to the Arcam ST60. I don’t think the D2 has a USB Audio output for attaching an external MQA DAC, but they routinely update their operating system so it might. 
I own the LUMIN D1 with external linear power supply, and it is an excellent device. I just like my Aurender better! :-)

Hi @zombiedad,

Wow, that Arcam ST60 looks almost as pretty as the CXN!  Might be a great choice for you, so long as you like the internal DAC. There is a USB-A port on the rear, but I suspect it is for attaching USB storage devices and not for digital signal output. The device is so new I couldn’t find a manual to check it out. Again, if there is no USB Audio output, then you won’t be able to try other reasonably priced MQA DACs. But that might be fine if you like the ST60’s DAC. 

My Aurender N100H is a streamer only. It does not include a DAC and the only output is the USB connection to an external DAC. The N100H is attached to my network through the Ethernet port (LAN) on the back. The single USB port on the back is the USB Audio output which I have connected to my standalone DAC. There are two more USB ports right under the Ethernet port (USB 1 & USB 2), but those are intended for attaching USB storage devices. Finally the analog output from the standalone DAC is connected to my integrated amp. 
I chose the N100H because I like the Conductor App for selecting music, and it allows me to choose whatever DAC I like. I’ve found DACs sound very different from one another, sort of like the differences between cartridges (if you are into vinyl). 
Anyhow, it’s a fun hobby and a forum like this is a nice thing in 2020. Have fun!

I am also looking at the Lumin D2.  So this is only a streamer without a DAC right.  It will need to connect to a DAC.       Would it be the same as my Cambridge CXN.   Using the digital out from the CXN,  connect to a MQA DAC (input)  ,  Then use Coaxial out to my amp?     If we connect the CXN output through a digital coaxial, it should just act like a streamer right ?

Hi  rockrider,  I think I made a wrong choice getting the CXN.  Might need to sell it.   Cambridge said they have no plans on getting MQA on the unit.   Have you heard of this new  Arcam ST60 Streamer.  https://www.whathifi.com/us/news/arcam-enters-music-streamer-market-with-fully-featured-st60
Look like this unit give full MQA decode.   

Educate me if you would.  For your  Aurender N100H,  I was looking at the rear panel,  I see two USB port,  do you plug in either one end from the Aurender, and other end goes to your Amplifier's USB port input?   Or youneed to add another DAC to decode MQA?

Sorry. What else can I say?

The CXN is your MQA barrier. Many streamers have USB output, but the CXN does not.

I just went through this looking for an MQA capable solution and decided to go with an Aurender N100H, which has USB output and allows me to use about any DAC with USB input (MQA or not).

For me, it was worth the effort. I really like MQA hi-res. For me, better than Qobuz hi-res. So don't give up!

Lots of great advice on this thread. LUMIN and Aurender are good choices I have experience with, but I’m sure many others would work well for you. But I think you need to move away from the CXN. It looks like Cambridge Audio does not offer any MQA streamers or DACs.

Good Luck!

Rockrider , I am still confused on the MQA decode part. Can I just use my CXN as a streamer (Transport). Then use hardware MQA decorder like SMSL M400 or Topping D90 to do the full decode and Coaxial out to my amp?

I don’t have any PC near by , I can’t use USB as a connection. Luxman is pretty expensive.

So I can’t use the CXN to send music to a full MQA decoder to have it decode and transfer the sound to my amp?

@zombiedad,
The only MQA DACs I know of that will decode MQA from an SPDIF input (coaxial or optical) are the Luxman D-03X and D-10X. The D-03X is somewhat reasonable price. Otherwise you’ll need to replace your CXN with a streamer with integral MQA DAC like the LUMINs or get a new streamer with USB out plus MQA DAC.   

I am using LUMIN U1 MINI with a L1 music server. My Marantz Ruby SA-KI is both a SACD player and a DAC. TIDAL and my ripped FLAC files in the music server is the digital source. LUMIN has a variety of DAC's you should give a listen. A lot of other great suggestions were given as well.  

Hi Rockrider, thanks for the reply.
How do I get this done? Is there a way to work around?
My Cambridge CXN also has XLR and Analog RCA Line out.
https://ibb.co/pzwpsJS

This is currently I have this setup connected to my Peachtree Nova300. But CXN don’t support MQA. I wanted to add a DAC which will fully do MQA hardware decode. What would you recommend?

If I have the right MQA DAC, I can have the decoded MQA lineout through RCA Analog to my Amp no problem.

So all these MQA DAC is only can decode MQA files through USB?

Sorry @zombiedad, this won’t work because all the DACs you mentioned only decode MQA files from their USB input, and the CXN only has coaxial and optical digital outputs. Also, the decoded MQA would only be output from the DACs through analog output, not digital. Good luck!

I do have the same questions with the MQA, may be some of you can help me answer it. I don’t want to use any of the PC or Roon setup. Just want to stream directly through my Tidal or Quboz from Android or Ipad devices.

Right now I have the Cambridge CXN V2, which this unit doesn’t support MQA at all. I want to know if I add a MQA Decoder on the top of it, would it decode Full MQA using the hardware to get 24bit / 192khz. or even higher.

Here is the setup, can someone let me know if this work?

Cambridge CXN V2 ---> Digital Out (Toslink/Coaxial) --->
SMSL M400 DAC or Topping D90 or PRO-JECT - Pre Box S2 MQA (Line Input) ---> Then Coaxial RCA out ---> My Amp (Coaxial Input)

What I know is if I use Digital Coax or Toslink connected from Cambridge to the MQA dac, it will bypass the decode from Cambridge and use the new MQA Dac to decode. But I want to know if this will work for full MQA decode and give me 24bit / 192khz when using either above MQA DAC.

Any feedback will be great. Thanks.

I am also looking for a device that can do full mqa unfold and digital out.  I want it because I want to incorporate minidsp and its DIRAC AND full mqa.  Is there a streamer that does full mqa decoding and rendering and digital out to minidsp that does room correction filtering?

Minidsp SHD does have analog input. I guess I can feed fully mqa decoded analog to SHD that converts back to digital, apply dirac filter, then converts back to analog with its internal dac. Would this degrade SQ during DA conversion then AD conversion and back to analog?

I had the latest Yggsdrasil dac and neighbor has the Brooklyn + 
the New Denafrips Pontus,new processor board +  came out in March this year. easily bettered those 2 if you want it cooler sounding, dac compared the
brooklyn+ is pretty decent but a toy compared to this 4ladder dac which has huge dual Toroidal s and 60 capacitors in a seperate section  there are 4 ladder
resistors and 141 capacitors for the digital filtering over 17 lbs for $1700
isold my Yggs and never  regretted it great service arrived within 4 days of shipping ,the new model noticeably better still.
if you have $2800 the Denafrips Venus is better still ,that being said the New Pontus does everything very well ,nicely  balanced and detailed with a slightly warm natural balance.

Cool. Glad to confirm a good DAC is also MQA Compatible. 

I have the original Mytek Brooklyn. Great DAC. MQA does not add to it. It sounds better with MQA disabled and the filter set to fast rolloff than with MQA enabled and the apodizing filter.



Best,

E

Thanks. I’ve heard the anti-MQA arguments and it seems like people who have that perspective are very adamant about it. Again, Qobuzz isn’t available in my country so trying to squeeze all I can out of Tidal. A good MQA DAC should also be a good DAC. 

Mqa is not all that it is cracked up to be
I have heard many great non Mqa
that sounded better.Qobuzz for example sounds better then Tidal,
and many music programs like a Jrivers media, Audirvana, sound excellent.
Check out this Audio download program 
Audiophile Optimizer  totally transforms your music pc 
computers load many programs in the back ground and hundreds of threads . This disconnects most of them and does man. Other functions ,it has won a bunch of awards ,
also  a dedicated Jcat usb card,and  or  a Jcat Net card,
is a noticable upgrade using a dedicated Femto clock pure linear regulators,not switch mode, and filters it isolates a lot of garbage from the noisy 
switching part of the computer. And option to make better still with a dedicated linear power supply ,the majority of streamers have. Switch more power supplies.If serious. About your Audio worth 
checking out. 

Yes I’ve heard this argument but I think it’s false dilemma. It would seem that a good DAC capable of MQA is also a good DAC. I’m thinking of the Mytek Brooklyn+ or Simaudio Moon DAC for example. Both MQA capable and also some of the best DACs available right now. 
From what I’ve read so far full MQA is only possible with a MQA DAC (analogue output) at the final stage regardless of what output on your Roon streamer/core you choose.  

I want to add something:

To my ears, the quality of the DAC is much more important than MQA. I’d rather have a great DAC with no MQA or 96/24 MQA than a crappy DAC with full MQA.

I have a DAC that can do full MQA, and I have it off, because I’d rather use different digital filters than have full MQA. It just sounds much better to me, so trying to get full MQA unfolding in a streamer to DAC solution isn't that important to me.

Also, if you forego coax and accept USB, you can use Roon  to get full MQA to your DAC.

Best,

E

Krilll, I have an Antipodes DS. I use USB from that to a Denafrips Pontus DAC.
To my ears at least, the sound is really good and the Pontus is capable of

• 24bits / 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192KHz on all Inputs and
  
• 1536kHz on USB & I²S Inputs

The outputs are RCA and XLR

Have a look at the vinshineaudio.com web site. Alvin Lee, the proprietor, is the sole Denafrips distributor.

Read up on the NAD M10 great for streaming with MQA.

I went through the same MQA decoding unfolding and rendering delima Try many dacs and streamers but all of them is limit 24/96 but streaming straight from MacBook Pro with USB to Preamp Michi P5 (MQA support) gave me 24/358  

Ya cool

From the Emm Labs NS1 manual:
When playing MQA® through the NS1 coupled with MQA®-enabled DAC, the NS1 will output MQA® Core decoded signal. �e MQA®-enabled DAC will display the original sample rate of the MQA® stream. In case of the DV2 DAC, the Optilink input currently cannot fully render MQA® streams beyond the Core decoding of 24bit, 96kHz.

Good idea. Thanks. 

If you want to try another DAC, my only suggestion is to buy from someone who has a good return policy. That way you can audition in your own home and compare against the DAC in the Dyn’s.

Yes I saw that. Thank you. 

Look at the Luxman flowchart carefully.  The decoded MQA goes only to the analog outputs.

I see, okay. I suppose a good place to start would be to get more information on the quality of DAC built into the Dyns. They are amazing in terms of sound already so I want to know what it’s going to take to get a real and noticeable upgrade. 

My Bel Canto Stream E.one says the same thing and I can assure you it won’t do the full unfold. What you’re looking for is essentially a MQA decoder. Something that only unfolds MQA and then passes on the otherwise unprocessed digital signal. As far as I know there is no such device, and believe me, if there was a need for such a device there would be someone making said device. What do you have against an external DAC, one that could potentially sound way better than the internal DAC on the Dynaudios, and feeding the speakers via RCA? BTW, it says Roon endpoint, not MQA endpoint.

It says MQA endpoint. That’s what that means when used with something like an antipodes running Roon. I don’t know why this makes no sense. 

Where does it say it does the FULL unfolding? Like many other streamers, it may just do the first unfold, relying on the DAC to do the final unfold. Even if it does, what you’re trying to accomplish REALLY makes no sense. 

http://www.luxman.com/product/detail.php?id=36

I think I read another thread here that Luxman is also releasing a new flagship DAC that will also do MQA.  Will above $10K though i beleive.
Happy hunting!

Everyone. This is the product / solution I’m looking for. I’m surprised no one here knew about this. It’s a Roon endpoint with full MQA unpacking. And it does have a coax out. Please see link to EMM Labs NS1. 

https://www.emmlabs.com/ns1.php

Schitt Valhala

Sounds like Mytek might be the way to go. Thanks all. 

I was going to recommend Mytek as well.  Not a fan of MQA but they make great DACs

@mboldda1

It is my understanding that the streamer will allow the first two of three “unfolds” to occur. This will give you 24/96. The “third” and final step is dependent on the DAC chip so has to occur in a MQA DAC to have full 24/192. The third step is hardware dependent while you can get the first parts by software. Tidal website, Roon, etc will get you the MQA software unfolding to 96/24 if it is available.

if you have a streamer that decodes mqa do you also need a mqa dac?

Sonnet Morpheus. BEST value in mid-priced DACs with MQA, IMO. 

Krilll -- enjoy Tidal!  As for all the criticism of Mytek on this website, I just let it wash over me.  When it comes to the Brooklyn, I just haven't heard it.  I live three+ thousand miles away from the nearest Hi-End dealer.  I can say, though, that I get considerably better fidelity from the Brooklyn Bridge than I ever got from jerry-rigging my laptop to my stereo system.

Look into the stuff from matrix audio. The products I would suggest

matrix SPDIF-2 (it will convert a USB to basically any known output and as of now it does it to the highest we’ve figure out. It will even transport DSD over IIS, thought to be LITERALLY impossible)

Matrix Sabre-X DAC (MQA edition) one of the record breakers for SINAD. Enough said imo

together about $2500

OR (for single unit)

Matrix Element (MQA) All In one streamer from them has A bunch of outputs. About $3k

Okay cool. Thanks for the suggestion. Why are other members critical of the Mytek? It seems like a nice piece to me as well. I’ll look into it some more. What do you think of the Brooklyn+? Unfortunately being in Canada I’m unable to get Qobuz hence the desire to squeeze everything I can out of Tidal Masters MQA. Otherwise I probably wouldn’t be doing any of this.