Thanks for your response Elinor. |
Hi all,
Just a reminder that if the Raven 1 retails for US$6000, then it must be costing around US$1200 maximum to manufacture. Freight plus distributor margin and retail margin. Half the US1200 is probably overheads and labour. What can you personally build for US$600. Naturally "tweaks upgrades etc" can be very cost effective - there are no margins.look at the deck - can I build this for US$600 ?
I'm not a fan of Ravens - dont like teflon spongy pudding bearing thrust plates, but its not a bad starter deck for the money.
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I find "nothing short of astounding" an astonishing statement. I can't argue with what you and your friends are hearing but I'm curious about the reasons and if the improvement is really so pronounced. Could it have to do with noise, connection to the AC grid etc that is a difference between AC and battery powered equipment? Or is it really just speed accuracy? If it is the latter, then I agree with the "recall and a replacement instead of an upgrade" comment. Something must be wrong with the stock AC-1 motor controller though that never really got noticed in all of the glowing reviews of that table. |
It sounds like it should be classified as a recall and a replacement instead of an "upgrade." |
It's the modern LP12. No matter what you do, you will never reach an end. |
Hi Elinor,
how can this be? The controller just controls the motor or motors depending on which table you have.
The motor/motors have a belt attached to the pully and then the belt goes around the platter of the table.
Can anyone explain, to me it must be something to do with speed stability. |
So the question still arises, how bad can the stock motor controller be that a replacement is "nothing short of astounding". And shame on TW if the stock controller is that bad on a table costing that much. since the only thing a motor is supposed to do is turn at a consistent speed, an astounding improvement is only possible if the stock motor controller didnt do that.
I am not arguing that maintaining a constant speed of the platter will not result in improved sound. I am arguing that any decent turntable of that expense should come stock with a motor and controller that does that basic function. |
Slowhand,
I replaced the original aluminium color mc box then used by TW with their Raven AC-1 with the new all black battery operated mc used with the Black Knight. The improvement was nothing short of astounding. I had friends over who were amazed by the improvement. The improvements you will hear are infinitely better soundstaging, more precise focus, and a whole new world in lower frequency response. Hope this helps. |
Hi Manitunic, just to clarify the motors for TW tables don't have separate plug-in cords. They actually have leads that connect to the main controller unit which is being mentioned in this thread and has the ad on power cord.
My thoughts are it's still gotta have something to do with speed consistancy over all, what else could it be.
Niether the controller unit or motors are directly connected to the table it's self drving it, there is a belt that actually makes this connection.
Question; I know when one sets up for speed there is no record being played, I would think that once the stylus is on the record there must be some drag.
How much? and what effect does this have on the actual speed, slowing it down etc. depending on the record cut it's self and how much resistance effect.
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It can't. And no one yet has explained why it should in anything close to the laws of physics. And if the motor is so bad that a new power cord is necessary to make it listenable, there is much more wrong with the system. |
Himiguel, you might want to post that responce at least one more time, not sure I got it.
Just Joking! Joking! Joking! Ha! Ha!
Okay guys so can someone enlighten me how this could be unless the speed is not consistant with the prior controller.
The controller powers either a single or multible motors, the motors have a collar ontop which the belt rests within and the other end goes arround the tables platter spinning it.
I would think there must be something going on with the speed if it's sonically making changes.
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I've found that not only the upgraded motor controller makes a huge difference but the power cord that feeds the motor controller is of equal importance. The speed of the music, high frequency detail, dynamics,width/depth of the stage all improve dramatically. Without the correct power cable upgrade on my table I feel the music to be slow. |
I've found that not only the upgraded motor controller makes a huge differnce but the power cord that feeds the motor controller is of equal importance. The speed of the music, high frequency detail, dynamics,width/depth of the stage all improve dramatically. Without the correct power cable upgrade on my table I feel the music to be slow. |
I've found that not only the upgraded motor control makes a huge differnce but the power cord that feeds the motor controller is of equal importance. The speed of the music, high frequency detail, dynamics,width/depth of the stage all improve dramatically. Without the correct power cable upgrade on my table I feel the music to be slow. |
Changing caps in a phono stage is not the same as changing caps in a motor controller. In the phono stage, the signal actually goes through it. In the motor controller, all you are doing is controlling the speed of the motor. so either you are turning at 33.33 or you are not. So why would the stock controller not turn the platter at the correct speed on a table as expensive as a Raven One? and different enough to be huge? |
I spoke with Jeff from Highwater Sound today. The "upgraded" motor controller for the Raven One is the same motor controller used with the Raven AC. It is larger and heavier than the Raven One controller. The motor controller does more than just control the speed of the platter. It has 10,000 times the capacitance of the One's controller. Jeff says the Raven One has more detail, a larger soundstage, and more dynamics with the AC motor controller. Better caps do make a difference. A friend of mine modded my Ayre phono stage with better caps (among other things) and the difference in the sound was dramatic (much more open, clear, and dynamic).
Jeff has never steered me wrong. I will go for the AC motor controller as soon as funds allow. |
Hyperbole? First thought usually whenever I hear " huge improvement" used. |
Since a motor controller upgrade can only affect the stability of the speed of the turntable, how bad can the original speed be for there to be a huge improvement in the sound. I mean, seriously, I have been hearing this a lot lately, and I have thought about an improved power supply or motor controller for my tables, but it just doesnt make sense that the original power supply that comes with a high end turnable is so poor that it can be hugely improved upon. so someone please explain what I am missing. |
I think this updated controller is now standard on Raven One (per Absolute Sound review last year). |
