Given that cartridges like this are more or less hand made and must have a degree of variability in construction and usage and associated gear will vary so much I doubt if just having the approximate usage time would tell you much. I have seldom or never worn out a cartridge but then I don't do speed dating either; the magic is all in your ear. Given a well constructed stylus and cantilever it SHOULD last longer than this but only you could judge.
Miyabi 47 cartridge: How many hours does it last ?
I have an opportunity to buy a used Miyabi47 cartridge. What is the typical life expectancy of this cart, considering it is well maintained ? How many hours does it really sing without any significant deterioration ?
I remember reading somewhere it only does 1000 hours before starting to lose its magic :(. Is it true ?
I remember reading somewhere it only does 1000 hours before starting to lose its magic :(. Is it true ?
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I got the Krell KC 100 which is identical with Miyabi Standard. Looks like new to me while this cart is from the 80is. Like Stanwal I have never worn out any stylus so far. I assume that the cantilever/stylus by Miyabi 47 is the same or similar to that of the Standard? Well if that is true I have a good news for you. Axel's pressure fitted line contact in aluminum cantilever retip is nearly identical to Miyabi Standard. Cost +/- 190 Euro. |
Thanks for the input. From what I remember reading, the Miyabi 47 cart starts to lose the bounce in the music past 1000 hours and it is not exactly the tip which gets worn out as much as the cantilever which loses some of its properties. If that is the case then where do we go ? Or could it be a one off case ? |
I would expect a cartridge with 1000 hours will soon need retipping. I don't have any experience with Miyabi, but I have had 3 Benz cartridges that each showed signs of distress at the 900 to 1000 mark. Most recently, my Benz LP was having trouble playing records cleanly that it had easily played before. It still sounded good but it didn't sound as clean as it did previously on some records. I sent it off to SoundSmith for inspection and Peter reported that it had significant wear. He retipped it and it now tracks cleanly and still sounds great. This was with a cartridge that had been treated very carefully its entire life. Bottom line---I would be suspicious of any cartridge with a claimed usage of 1000 hours. It may still be a good deal but I would plan on sending it off to a retipper like SoundSmith for an inspection to make sure it isn't so worn that you are damaging your records by using it. |
I have had two cartridges re-tipped by Soundsmith and BOTH were total disasters.Both were Denon 304s. The first I loaned to a surgeon friend and the cantilever broke off in the first week of use. I thought it could have been his fault so I later had another done; the suspension failed after a week and REPEATED messages to them have never received a response. It looks to be in perfect shape but simply collapses when lowered on the record. I have had some other experienced audiophiles look at it under microscopes and they can't figure out what is wrong either. I sent an AT OC 9 back for a retip [$150] and they simply said it had half its life left, cleaned it and charged me $75. I would liked to have made that decision myself. In about 50 years the only cartridge I ever recall damaging myself was during a group marathon listening session at 2 AM and I knew it the moment I did it. I will go elsewhere next time. |
Is this Miyabi 47 really a cartridge made from Takeda??? Some say, it is not. Takeda himself does no more repairs, when you find out who made it, Service shouldn't be a problem. Btw. the Miyabi Standard works very will with all kind of Arms and is really outstanding from sonics. Takeda used that body for a few manufacturers, Cello, Krell, Mark Levinson, Red Rose ... but he said, the Standard was his own voicing, he sold it for his own and it was sonically his best design... |
Dear Syntax,'it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks (sounds) like a duck, it probable is a duck'. But I understand when 'someone' pay the full price for his Miyabi Standard this 'someone' does not like to hear that someone else got the same 'duck' for 1/4 of the price. I am grateful for your advice to look for this 'duck' but we from the Balkans enjoy in particular such kind of coincidence. Some of us need to 'enjoy' such a 'pleasure' for the rest of our life. I bought this Krell KC 100 a la Raul: 'one never knows'. Beside with the (metal) box I was staggered by the looks: 'looks like a duck'...etc. I was even more flabbergasted by the sound by my first test in my second system which function as my labaratory. After 20 min. this cart was the first to make the promotion to my main system. 'It' (the duck) got the company of my Reed 2A and substituted the previous occupant the Phase Tech P-3G. If I only can find the Cello which looks to me like a real beauty. Regards, |
I bought a levinson mlc-1 in 1997 re tipped by Van den Hull for cheap.Since that time it has worked perfectly ,last year a new re tipping from Van den Hull again (around 1000 hours since the last time). No problem with suspension... In an interview read on dagogo, Takeda said that levinson give him the idea for the shape of the cartridge. I use it on a big plinthed lenco with high end bearing...OL conqueror mk II and am totally amazed by the sound of a 32 years old cartridge. |
Takeda Maybe one could think of the "duck" that quacks in a different way. It is similar in that it is a persona that is representative, but not true to the underlying flow of energy. As it has been said elsewhere, this master designer Takeda did something very unique and special for his favorite child, Standard. The rest of these ducks, nice ones; however, that is marketing. Mostly Fun, Stitch.e |
Hi Gilles, I heard about this MLC-1 but was confused because of Levinsons involment. So I thought that 'Cello' is the same as MLC-1. To add to the confusion there seems to be also the Klipsch version of 'the same' cart. To comfort or reassure my friend Syntax I need to mention that there are some differences between 'his' and 'my' Miyabi Standard : 0,2 versus 0,25 mV and 2 Ohm versus 4 Ohm in the 'his'- 'my' order. The 47 labs I would never buy because of the (plastic)looks, not to mention the performance. Regards, |
Dear Stich, I wish that I invented this different 'quacks'. But the basic proposition was that they 'quack' in the same way as they look. I thought about to promote Syntax specimen to a better looking duck but was confronted with the same 'logical' problem because they are 'per definition' looking the same. So I give up verbal diferentiation and used numerical kind. But, alas, those are never funny. BTW who cares about difference between 0,2 and 0,25 mV or 2 Ohm versus 4 Ohm? However the price difference may still hurt. Regards, |
Nandric, the mlc-1 is a low compliance cartridge, designed by nakamichi but built by miyabi. The cello is the same weight but is high compliance (the sound is first class)(review by hifi choice) Syntax ,my post was to show that miyabi cartridge can be re tipped without problem and are built to last. Last week i was tempted by a zyx universe with more than 1000 hours so i contacted Roberto Torlai in Italy and he said me that if there were problems inside the cartridge it was impossible to repair, so i stay away. |
Hi Nandric, Really, Syntax is a duck? Ah, numbers, good! Yes, those all look to be close enough and most likely within the statistical variation of error when dealing with an art form instead of a science, ha! I am happy that this cartridge of yours was promoted to the number one team! Fun Mostly, Stitche |
Dear Stitche, You seem to be an 'grand master' in mis interpreting my statements. I assume that your intention is to provoke some Balkan answers from my side. Well my statement was that Syntax owns a better looking duck than others but because of the logical difficulties involved (x=y=z, qua looks) I was forced to use numerical instead of verbal description for your 'beatiful duck'. But to me 'owning something' and 'being something' are different categories. Ergo: Syntax is not a duck. To be honest I really thought that all those LOMC's were like 'our ducks'. Say only marginaly different and because of this 'subjective opinion' my opinion about myself would be very disturbed with any price above,say, $3000. So you can imagine my feelings by my discovery that I am not deaf or, which is the same, was able to hear clear difference between my 'new duck' and +/-20 other kinds of birds (aka carts) that I own. I deed shout 'Heureka!' and though about you because you was 'the one' who told me about the Miyabi Standard in the first place. Regards, |
Dear Gilles, While I was very glad for myself and sorry for Syntax by each new discovery of Takeda's American 'ducks' you are obviously aiming at confusing and complicating the issue. The more of those 'ducks' the better chance to get some more for cheap. Such a kind of guy I become because of the MM thread. I decided 20x already to stop with this sickly habit to start each day with searching on ebay for new/old MM carts but, alas, the sickness in casu seems to be not curable. My 'solution' is to do the opposite and convince this way my other egos that I am doing something totally different. I look at present only for the LOMC's and those American ducks in particuar. Are you in the position to put them all in a ranking order such that anybody can see what to look for? Regards, |
Hi Pani, I assume that you mean with 'superb and funny' me in particular? As a service in return look at: schallplattennadeln.de. Axel Schurhoz is discovered by Raul and me while many members are already convinced reg. his upgrad/retip capabilities. If your cantilever is aluminum you should ask Axel for: pressure fitted line contact stylus in a aluminum cantilever. This is his best and mostappealing (qua price) 'retip'. What is more 'it' looks the same as the other 'ducks'. I can compare with the cantilever/stylus in my Virtuoso and both look the same to me. Regards, |
Dear Nandric, Happy to be of humble assistance with you finding your way through the thin forest. Your adept logic is helpful for me to understand my misstep: Syntax, okay, he is not a duck, good; howerver, then you have explained him to be bilateral flow of acoustical energy, this cartridge. When the particles move in an elegant forward wave-flow movement, music, yes! Whenever these particles circle back upon themselves, untold feedback; yep, an that is unfortunate outcome. It is helpful and enlightening that you described this one, not as bird (duck), but as a cartridge, thank you. Someday, maybe you can go for this Standard; think of it as the top of your cartridge budget, but only one-half, or so, of your clothing allowance :-). Sort of, maybe a locus of reference around a two-for-one or half-off orientation, of course, your choice. Best, Fun Mostly, Stitch.e |
You guys a superb combination of fun and information. So, it is clear that 1000 hours mark for a Miyabi cart is a good time to consult the doctor. Now, the next important topic could be, in the absence of Takeda san who else can do a good job of retipping ? Takeda Miyabis I got my first Takeda Miyabi Alnico (later renamed to Standard based on the price policy of 47 Lab, they introduced the plastic body for 4k as their premium cartridge, later they also carried the Alnico and renamed it to hold the price hierarchy...it was great, in USA the Standard was - officially - much cheaper than in Europe :-)) in the 90's and it was running 10 years day in, day out. I guess 1000h is nothing for it. Then I bought another one (I bought Miyabi 3x) and same story, always top Performer, I sold it to an audiophile who did visit me and wanted to have it. My 3. one was a spare and was at my Dealer's place, when I called him to send it, he sold it to one of his customers, ordered another one for me, but then Takeda gave the message, he will retire and that's it.... Retip is no problem for that Cartridge, but I think, they are rare to find. I listened to 47Lab unit years ago, from my memory --> all those who knew both, preferred the Standard. |
Thank you again Nandric and Syntax. Your words are giving me confidence to try out a Miyabi even though it might have done quite a few hours. So, retipping might not be a problem, what about the cantilever itself ? As far as I know the original cantilever on the Miyabi47 and Miyabi standard is a special/secret recipe of aluminium alloy (correct me if I am wrong). If that requires any repair then ? Or is it that the cantilever normally doesnt require a replacement ? One last request, if you do come across a Miyabi Standard or Miyabi47 in good condition for sale, please let me know at my email ID dr.basss@gmail.com |
Dear Nandric, Happy to be of humble assistance with you finding your way through the thin forest. Your adept logic is helpful for me to understand my misstep: Syntax, okay, he is not a duck, good; howerver, then you have explained him to be bilateral flow of acoustical energy, this cartridge. When the particles move in an elegant forward wave-flow movement, music, yes! Whenever these particles circle back upon themselves, untold feedback; yep, and that is unfortunate outcome. It is helpful and enlightening that you described this one, not as bird (duck), but as a cartridge, thank you. Someday, maybe you can go for this Standard; think of it as the top of your cartridge budget, but only one-half, or so, of your clothing allowance :-). Sort of, maybe a locus of reference around a two-for-one or half-off orientation, of course, your choice. Best, Fun Mostly, Stitch.e |
Dear Stiche, I noticed your particle physics explanation on 'what happens in a cart' but I always wanted to ask the following question for which some 'courage' is needed. Ie nobody like to ask stupid questions. But considering the prices of all those copper or silver wire my pragmatic ego won from my super ego. I want ask how those particles know which way to go but like to check my assumption that wherever they go they 'choose', so to speak, the most easy 'passage'. So if my assumption is correct they will avoid all those soldering 'points' and travel confortable through the least resistant matter (metal) involved. While my American 'duck' got the luxure of my most expensive tonearm with the (very expensive) cryo treated wire from tags till the phono-pre I am emotionly still bonded with my FR-64s with not only an removable headshell but also with many 'soldering points'. Only to you I will confess that I am not able to hear any difference between, say , 'one single piece' of wire and those 'interrupted' by lead/silver soldering points. My confession is at the same time my answer to Halcro's question : 'do you hear any difference between both kinds (removable/other) of headshells?'. With Balkan greetings, |