"I just got my own stock Orchid with WE 369 tube. The mid range from it is the best I have ever heard in years. Very detailed, smooth and musical.
However, there are some areas that I wish it can improve: the dynamics, high and bass. Do you think that Orchid should be more dynamic, the bass should be tighter, and high should be more airy? I believe these areas can somehow improve by upgrades..."
quanghuy147, try the Tesla 2C51/6CC42 tube in the Orchid instead (if) your main preamplifier and amplifier are already smooth sounding. The WE396 does have nice mids, partly at the expense of rolled highs and less dynamic, exactly +1 what @grannyring said about it.
The Tesla 2C51 in the MHDT Orchid is right between the stock GE 5670 5-Star Triple Mica and the softer WE396A. If you want to brighten up and get back some detail on the top/bottom end, actually the stock GE 5670 5-star triple mica is not bad, but I prefer the Tesla with my particular tube preamp and mono block tube amps. It’s like spices on a meal. A little here and there, not too much.
I bought the Orchid dac after reading this tread .I whish to make all the upgrades recommanded,(Vcaps,Duelund,orange fuse,resistors,cv-181) . I need some help to complete the upgrade :The main question I have before making these mods concerns the resistors .I cannot identify the brand of the different resistors.
Audio Note ? Vishay ? As recommanded by Grannyring :
R38, R52, R36, R54 -- designed value 100R 1W
1WR34, R58 -- designed value 400K 1W
R37, R53 -- designed value 4K7, 1W
Also my old Arc sp3 preamp has a 100ohms input what would be the best value (mf) for the Vcaps ?
For the moment The sound of the stock Orchid is close to the sound of my LM 502ca , hope that the upgrade Orchid will best it .
Do not use the cv181 tube and adaptor as it is not the best combo for sound and can sound bright. No Duelund caps needed. Vcap Odams on output 400v 2.2uf. Add Vcap Cutf .01 uf as bypass for more detail and air. Not a must, but a nice option.
Use a mix of resistors for best sound. Vishay Nude ZFoils for the 100R. Audio Note non-magnetic tantalum and Shinkoh for remaining positions.
Careful desoldering the old parts. Easy to lift pads if not careful on this unit. Very easy! You can ruin the board. Use WBT silver solder. 1/2 watt resistors are fine. Audio Note leads on 1 and 2 watt resistors will not fit in the pad hole. I do these units for customers and at a price close to what you will do it for. I can do this for you if you are not skilled with desoldering etc...
Other upgrades can be done for a tad more improvement. Take care.
Bill, I appreciate your answered my questions. I live in Canada and there is an experienced technician here who I suppose could make these modifications. I would like to avoid sending back and forth the unit but nonetheless I will think about your proposal as I trust your knowledge of this dac I will let you know. You can send a me message to detail what you are offering. About the cv-181 tube, at first, like others users, you seemed exited by the sound of this tube, what changed your mind, bad tube? some report these tubes are not reliable.
I reported on the thread that over time it sounded forced and a tad bright. That tube also pulls more current than the other tubes folks are trying and I think it is pushing the limits of the small tranny. I would not use it. It pulls more current than a standard 6sn7 tube as an FYI.
That tube also pulls more current than the other tubes.
The cv181 has a heater current of .95 amps and the 6sn7 is .6 amps. Quite a few transformers were being destroyed when that tube was being sold as a 6sn7 alternate.
After following this thread with great interest, I finally picked up an Orchid and have done several of the upgrades mentioned by Grannyring (and others). I am enjoying the whole process of upgrading and hearing the changes and improvement so much so that I finally decided to post on this forum to say a big "THANK YOU" to all who have contributed.
The Orchid is a great DAC and it is easy(ish) to work on.
Changes done so far: R38, R52, R36, R54 Vishay Z foils 0,60W 100 Ohm R34, R58 -- Caddock MK232 0.75W 390K R37, R53 - Audio Note Tantalum 1W 4.7 K Jantzan Superior Z - 2.2uf Duelund CAST-PIO-Sn/Cu
0.01uF 630Vdc
Various tubes - current favourite - Philips Miniwatt E188CC (7308) SQ with adapter.
Upcoming changes:
Ordered the V-Caps (arrived today) looking forward to hearing the diffierence
R3, R4 - Ordered a set of Caddock MK23 and Amtrans AMRG Carbon Film 0.75W to try out. Possibly upgrade fuse to???
Really enjoying the sound now. I would be happy to live with the Orchid the way is now but I like to tinker and ask "what if I ..."
Great stuff. Great fun
Any other upgrade/change sugguestions are welcomed.
The fuse does matter for sure. The Vcap Odams with a. .01uf Vcap Cutf gives the best sound as I learned in my years of upgrading these units. I have also found a mix of the Vishay nude ZFoils and Audio Note non-magnetic tantalum resistors to be wonderful.
Thank you for your continued sharing of Knowledge on this forum! It is really valuable and highly appreciated.
Regarding the ShuGuang Treasure vacuum tubes CV181-Z, are rated at 0.6 amps. Do you now think they might do damage to the dac? (In addition to not sounding right?)
Regarding the ShuGuang Treasure vacuum tubes CV181-Z, are rated at 0.6 amps. Do you now think they might do damage to the dac? (In addition to not sounding right?)
The treasure cv181 tubes aren't the same as the nos cv181 tubes, they are a 6sn7 tube, I don't know why they call them cv 181's. Report this
Great! Thanks for confirming! Does anyone currently use the ShuGuang Treasure vacuum tubes CV181-Z? Did you find anything that betters it? (I have a pair inbound now)
Well, I did not like the sound of these cv181 tubes in the Orchid. For me the sound was too forward and forced. A good audio buddy liked it however. The tranny is very small in the Orchid and these 6sn7 variants do pull more current. I have not heard of any issues using these tubes in the Orchid, but over the long term who knows?
Oh my! I took all mods listed in this thread and other threads concerning mods to the Orchard, and applied them -all- to a 2hand Stockholm 2 I got for a good price… Installed the Shuguang Treasure CV181Z through an adaptor…..
The sound….. is like nothing I heared before… My Denafrips AresII is sold!
Currently burning in the Shuguang Treasure CV181Z, 5 hours now….
I realize that the main activity for this post is well behind us, but also wanted to say a big thank you to all who have participated and contributed such dense and valuable information.
I have a couple of thoughts/ideas to throw out and will hope that some of the main contributors are still following this:
I know Bill prefers the SS rectification, but has anyone tried or thought about a well designed external power supply with tube rectification for an Orchid? I don’t think Dan probably has time or interest, but thought about asking him about an external PS for the Orchid… (I’m also curious if anyone has compared a Modwright Elyse with a modded Orchid..?)
Also, are there any mods/adjustments that would better support use of an adapter 6SN7 in a modded Orchid? Has anyone pondered a transformer upgrade both for different tube rolling options, but for improvements in general? Seems like the core circuitry continues to impress and could be worthy of more significant changes, whether external PS, transformer, or maybe other things..
Thanks in advance for humoring some more ideas.
PS: I’ll be in touch soon Bill. We’ve talked before and I fully anticipate doing a mod package with you.
@madsryI prefer the Amperex 6DJ8 tubes in my MHDT Balanced Pagoda over the stock (GE maybe?) 369 tubes and some sort of Tesla (I'm not at home to see which kind). The Amperex obviously requires adapters to work. I haven't tried any other tubes besides those nor has the DAC been modified. Not sure the Orchid will be hugely different but this is my experience.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
