Just a Denon? Denon makes some fine products as well as less expensive ones but Mac used to use the Esoteric transport. |
i have a chance at a mac for the same price as upgrading the Krell.....SACD is the important format factor i am interested in with it. |
I have read comments on Audio Review that indeed Mac is using Denon transports. One fellow removed the cover of an 871 and it showed the transport sporting the Denon name. However, the electronics were Mac's own. They are owned by the same company, D & M Holdings. |
Your really asking about two different kinds of sound. I've owned two complete systems, one Mc one Krell. Both are great with the Mc more tuneful and Krell more complete. I found myself turning the volume down on the Krell and up on the Mc. All this depends on the rest of your system. Unless you need DVD you should consider the Mc 201 or 301 instead. |
I have the MVP861 McIntosh and got rid of a 22 year old Meridian 506. I liked the Meridian sound better. The mac is a forward in your face cd player |
Based on reliability I would go with the Mac (vs. the SACD standard, which was/is unreliable and prone to failure).
For sound, I would probably also go with the Mac unless you are going way up the krell line. If you are looking current model entry level Krell players, many are being made in China.
FWIW, I love Krell and if the question pertaining to amp I would be recommending the Krell amps or even the preamps (non-KAV series). |
thanks guys
Well,its actually quite a delema:
my Krell SACD just BROKE and the upgrade is $1500+shp(from Ontario) and I can get a "Brand new"(unopened) 871 for the same.I just did not want to pay $1500 for a rebadged denon.If it has the MACGIC(LOL) touch,...thats good.I am not having a very good relationship with the Krell Warranty repair shop up here and may sell all my Krell gear,as this is why I bought Krell as a local shop was nice to have.I sent a Marantz DV9600 to him """500 days ago"""and he has not offered me any assistance other than PARTS,PARTS!!!!! So I purchased another unit(Krell) and it is now down and he will not help with it either.So I have spent(lost) enough with brands he fixes. |
Krell has really shot themselves in the foot with the disc players. Personally, I think they have also lost their image with the surround processors which are virtually out of date the day they are released. In my opinion, they should stick with what they are good at, Class A amps with huge power supplies and preamps. If they can't make it with these endeavors they will end up as an also ran company. Which is too bad for what was once a great company. At the price they sell their digital equipment for, you would think they would install Esoteric's drive and improve their reputation in this area. |
If you keep the Krell, once Krell upgrades your player to the MkIII I'm told you will have the same transport as the Evolution 505 player. This is a solid transport without the reliability issues of the transport in the Krell SACD. You will then have a great player imo. |
I guess I am having troubles with loosing $4500 in players and then putting in another $1500 for a problematic situation that was never the consumers fault(ever).It seems like a game to some but for me this is a lot of hard work money gone down the tube and all I get is exscuses.The Krell warranty repair shop in Brampton,Ont. is just a shop full of excuses that is making me rethink about my brand loyalty and making sure people never go through the situation I am in.... |
I see your point with the players. I would never give that shop any more business. Another option would be to ship the player to Krell for the upgrade. It would be a hassle, but the work would be done right. |
Foster_9, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the new drives simple computer CD/DVD-Rom drives? I am not trying to start something or a rumor or anything, but that was my understanding. Not that I even think that is an aweful approach either, at least if they are CD-Rom (computer) drives they are owner replaceable which is a real benefit. Although I didn't think those drives were set-up to read the SACD layers.?. |
So let me try and understand this correctly!!Not only do we the consumer get screwed for a drive system but the $1500 replacement is a cheap computer drive?
I will not do this.
As for the shop,I not only gave them business,but recomended them.One fella sent his 600c in for caps(a half hour drive)and it took them 4 months.He feels like a VIP knowing my player has been with them for 500 days.I am incredibly saddend by all of this and donnot know how to just watch $4500 of my money dissapear while they give me nothing but excuses.NOT OUR FAULT. |
I've been down this road before with Krell. But delt with them directly.
When my drive went down in my sacd standard. They upgraded it for free
after demanding it. If your unit is still under warranty call Krell (do not
email them) and ask for the service manager or the vice president of the
company. They should help you out. Keep demanding a free upgrade to
version 3 or if you can trade it in for one of their new models which are
way better than the sacd standard. Even their cheaper $2500 one is
better. If you any trouble message me directly. |
I've been down this road before with Krell. But delt with them directly. When my drive went down in my sacd standard. They upgraded it for free after demanding it. If your unit is still under warranty call Krell (do not emIl them) ask for the service manager or the vice president of the company. They should help you out. Keep demanding a free upgrade to version 3 or if you trade it in for one of their new models which are way better than the sacd standard. Even their cheaper $2500 one is better. If you any trouble message me directly. |
Get it fixed at Krell. You should be able to get the upgrade for free if the unit is still under warranty. Then sell it on AgoN and get their new player, which retails for $2500. The new player sounds better, has digital inputs and uses reliable Esoteric drive.
The SACD Standard is the model to forget. It was doomed the day they opted for unreliable Philips drive (ofc, they did not know that back then). Other manufacturers, like dCS, Musical Fidelity have the same problems. Its all Philips fault and their 'engineering'.
Krell at least did not left their customers empty handed, and enginereed a replacement drive that can be retrofited. NO OTHER manufacturer I know of did this. Give Krell credit for this !
At least Krell learned from their mistakes (or more precisely - Philips mistakes) and now uses the tried and tested Esoteric drive. It should be good for years.
FYI - the Denon drives that Mac uses also aren't reliability champs. Esp 201 drive, which is also very noisy.
FYI #2 - the $1500 upgrde is not an easy drive swap. The servoboard is replaced as well, the new (blue) display is fitted, complete with a big board, the size of the front panel. I belive it is $1000 parts and $500 labour. |
I have heard this about the MCD201 before. I own one and it has never failed or created noise. As for the original question...do you need DVD? Do you like McIntosh? If yes then get a McIntosh SACD player. If the older versions are not what you want get the MCD500 which can also be used for outboard DAC connection. I have never heard anyone complain about McIntosh service, ever! |
I have heard this about the MCD201 before. I own one and it has never failed or created noise. I had MCD-201 in my system. The sound it makes just spinning the CD was unacceptable for me. I could hear it from 10ft away, during quiet passages and when no music was playing. I though it was broken, but then the dealer brought me another, unopened 201, that was just as noisy. This is just a bad design IMO. My dCS Puccini on the other hand is dead quiet. |
I have no experience with Krell. However, I did demo an MVP871 a year or year-and-a-half ago. At the time, it was a demo being offered to me for $3k. Because it was only super at music and really not much better at video and I needed both (or so I thought), I let it go and went another way. If I could have had one for $1,750, wow, I'd have taken that deal. Especially NIB. -I did not listen to SACD, don't have any. But redbook was stellar. I still remember it. Very, very nice. No offense to the 201 owners out there, but the 871 was hands down better in every way. And it was really great for concert DVDs too. If I didn't have my current 840C and Marantz BD 7003 and were starting over, I'd really like to have an 871. Everything but BD and quite a sexy package too. You won't be dissapointed. |
