What oft happens, in fact, is that disagreement is either interpreted as OR incorrectly characterized as abuse. I.e., It’s a tactic. Sometimes referred to as brown-nosing. 🤗Without freedom of speech, there can be no democracy. This country was founded on differences of opinion. Besides don’t differences of opinion make for a more interesting and robust forum? I’m not referring to name calling, not at all. Look at what happened to some other audio forums, I won’t mention any names, that fell into disrepair and even ...oblivion 💀 once there’s was no action.
Manufacturers pushing their products and agenda in the forums.
In the deep, dark, past manufacturers participated in the Audiogon forums with a general sense of decorum and a sensitivity to other products that they did not manufacture themselves and which were, from a design standpoint, philosophically opposed to their views.
What has happened? Manufacturers now post into the forums dogmatically espousing their myopic view of the hobby, shamelessly pimping their own products and view of the audio world and, even more disturbingly, running down opposing brands.
IMHO, it may be time to throw the baby out with the bath water and ban manufacturers, distributors, retailers and importers. If they can’t get their act together they should take it on the road.
What has happened? Manufacturers now post into the forums dogmatically espousing their myopic view of the hobby, shamelessly pimping their own products and view of the audio world and, even more disturbingly, running down opposing brands.
IMHO, it may be time to throw the baby out with the bath water and ban manufacturers, distributors, retailers and importers. If they can’t get their act together they should take it on the road.
117 responses Add your response
| Post removed |
viridian "Manufacturers now post into the forums dogmatically espousing their myopic view of the hobby, shamelessly pimping their own products and view of the audio world and, even more disturbingly, running down opposing brands.IMHO, it may be time to throw the baby out with the bath water and ban manufacturers, distributors, retailers and importers." I love Americans which I am sure you are you tout, defend, and embrace "Free Speech" unless it contains thoughts, ideas, or concepts with which you disagree, criticize, or object and then you seek to silence, isolate, or ban such contributors to suit your own agenda, goal, or desires. It is not for you to limit, restrict or prevent other users, contributors, and posters from stating, expressing, or advocating their views, beliefs, and theories. |
| Post removed |
"And yes I have had threads, and posts removed, and have had all of my posts under moderation from time to time." Yep, see this is something I don't understand about audio forums. I can't get my head around why someone would get angry about audio. And worse the stalking other members to troll them that goes on. It's a forum subculture that is very odd, and many social forum lawyers are actually looking into the legality issues again. I wouldn't be surprised if the banning of forum members started happening as with other social media types now getting more serious about these issues. MG |
| Post removed |
Hi viridian "Mr. Green, thanks again, much appreciated. Oh I remember your ads quite well. The hair, unforgettable, the speakers, not so much. IMHO, manufacturer participation here has run its course." I'm still on the fence with "manufacturer participation". The same with dealers and any professional agendas. At the same time I don't think these types of forums will have longevity without the whole community being a part. I also don't see the professionals as being Agon's biggest threat. The hobby of listening to music and talking about it should be "internet troll free". My recommendation to Agon is to implement a 3 strikes your out policy concerning internet trolling. I believe if you get rid of internet trolling (abusive toward other members) this place would change dramatically for the better. MG |
| Post removed |
A question for you viridian. (very timely and important thread btw) When you joined years ago have you been an active poster ever since? I haven't been obviously but am interested in Audiogon as a whole ever since I have started posting here regular in person. I started my own audio forum in 2004 "TuneLand" and learned many things about forums in general. TuneLand the current version is a much smaller hangout vs the first one which out grew me quickly, but visiting other forums is very informing and shows the trends of the hobby's personalities and do's and don'ts. I say do's and don'ts in reference to things I would never do on my own forum but see practiced elsewhere. My "other forum" experiences include a few but the ones that caught my attention were the Stereophile and TAS and here that I jumped in and participated in Starting with TAS which folded, then Stereophile (troll city) and here, still very much seeing the potential but as this thread is pointing out may want some changes. One of the them being thread building issues. Michael Green |
| Post removed |
Hi viridian I've probably had several usernames as I'm notoriously forgetful about usernames and passwords. But they all would have been something to do with the business or me personally. Michael Green, RoomTune, MGA or something along those lines. I've been a part of several of the marketing campaigns here while in discussions of how best to promote using Agon as well as being in discussions about Agon itself within the industry. I don't remember all the names of the marketing ventures Agon has done, but recall the Marketplace one, Dealer Showcase was another and the Banner system where we as advertisers would buy credits and go up and place our own banners in different places on the website. I'm sure there were other programs that we did with the Gon, but those are the ones that come to mind. I believe my last in person meeting I had with Audiogon was during the 2005 (I think maybe even 2004) show when we were at the Vegas Towers. I remember meeting with Steven and Alan stopped by to take pictures of the place for their show report. I'm happy to share anything that I can to add to the mix. I came on board as an HEA designer in 1989 and quickly became part of the reviewing scene and as quick had 650 dealers carrying RoomTune in the US and distributed to over 30 countries by the early 1990's so was pretty up on the industry's MoJo at the time. Before that was a dealer myself so I got to see the hobby as a hobbyist, dealer then designer, three completely different mindsets btw. My first store was started in 1981, while I was sound engineer at Turner and In Touch and for the Atlanta Symphony, as a little background. Always thought Audiogon was a cool and unique place and have seen it's development as an important part of the HEA chapter of this hobby. Michael Green |
| Post removed |
| Post removed |
I share your view and had suggested a couple alternatives to Admin- if somebody is posting as a dealer to peddle or promote, they should have some badge identifying them and charge them for that privilege (in the same way as "Insider"). For those manufacturers or dealers who are kind enough to offer technical or other advice without the sales job, perhaps they can do so under another user name (though that kind of puts the crush on some long time members here who can wear both hats and provide technical or other advice without an agenda). And having a strict compliance rule that is enforced by user flagging if someone is flogging stuff through the forums without paying for the privilege. My suspicion is that somehow Audiogon sees value in having dealers and manufacturers and I generally do too-- If Audiogon can monetize it (which is really what this site is about, right?- nobody offers this platform simply for the sake of providing a place for us to ’chat’), perhaps they can figure out a way to separate the two intelligently. At bottom, how much money does Audiogon make from the forums? Advertising, I suppose. But the original main mission was as a sales exchange for gear, much of it used (I remember when a dealer first said, "I’m getting out of taking trade-ins, just put it up on Audiogon"). As it stands, I just ignore certain threads altogether-- though that may not mean much in the overall scheme of things. I’m sure that Admin is aware of the issue. I think it is a question of how Audiogon can do this sensibly without wholesale disruption. |