Manufacturers pushing their products and agenda in the forums.

I've told Tammy in emails "I feel your pain". She does a great job and even though I would step up the no abuse policy some, I'm interested in the future part Audiogon plays in the community.

nice talking with you viridian

MG

viridian

Something to keep in mind is that Agon and the audio professionals here are in conversations about this issue on going. In fact the conversation started when the Audiogon Forum first began and has never stopped.

Michael Green

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

A question for you viridian. (very timely and important thread btw)

When you joined years ago have you been an active poster ever since?

I haven't been obviously but am interested in Audiogon as a whole ever since I have started posting here regular in person. I started my own audio forum in 2004 "TuneLand" and learned many things about forums in general. TuneLand the current version is a much smaller hangout vs the first one which out grew me quickly, but visiting other forums is very informing and shows the trends of the hobby's personalities and do's and don'ts. I say do's and don'ts in reference to things I would never do on my own forum but see practiced elsewhere.

My "other forum" experiences include a few but the ones that caught my attention were the Stereophile and TAS and here that I jumped in and participated in Starting with TAS which folded, then Stereophile (troll city) and here, still very much seeing the potential but as this thread is pointing out may want some changes. One of the them being thread building issues.

Michael Green

http://tuneland.forumotion.com/

Hi viridian

"Mr. Green, thanks again, much appreciated. Oh I remember your ads quite well. The hair, unforgettable, the speakers, not so much. IMHO, manufacturer participation here has run its course."

I'm still on the fence with "manufacturer participation". The same with dealers and any professional agendas. At the same time I don't think these types of forums will have longevity without the whole community being a part.

I also don't see the professionals as being Agon's biggest threat. The hobby of listening to music and talking about it should be "internet troll free". My recommendation to Agon is to implement a 3 strikes your out policy concerning internet trolling. I believe if you get rid of internet trolling (abusive toward other members) this place would change dramatically for the better.

MG

"And yes I have had threads, and posts removed, and have had all of my posts under moderation from time to time."

Yep, see this is something I don't understand about audio forums. I can't get my head around why someone would get angry about audio. And worse the stalking other members to troll them that goes on. It's a forum subculture that is very odd, and many social forum lawyers are actually looking into the legality issues again. I wouldn't be surprised if the banning of forum members started happening as with other social media types now getting more serious about these issues.

MG

Hi viridian

I've probably had several usernames as I'm notoriously forgetful about usernames and passwords. But they all would have been something to do with the business or me personally. Michael Green, RoomTune, MGA or something along those lines.

I've been a part of several of the marketing campaigns here while in discussions of how best to promote using Agon as well as being in discussions about Agon itself within the industry. I don't remember all the names of the marketing ventures Agon has done, but recall the Marketplace one, Dealer Showcase was another and the Banner system where we as advertisers would buy credits and go up and place our own banners in different places on the website. I'm sure there were other programs that we did with the Gon, but those are the ones that come to mind. I believe my last in person meeting I had with Audiogon was during the 2005 (I think maybe even 2004) show when we were at the Vegas Towers. I remember meeting with Steven and Alan stopped by to take pictures of the place for their show report.

I'm happy to share anything that I can to add to the mix. I came on board as an HEA designer in 1989 and quickly became part of the reviewing scene and as quick had 650 dealers carrying RoomTune in the US and distributed to over 30 countries by the early 1990's so was pretty up on the industry's MoJo at the time. Before that was a dealer myself so I got to see the hobby as a hobbyist, dealer then designer, three completely different mindsets btw. My first store was started in 1981, while I was sound engineer at Turner and In Touch and for the Atlanta Symphony, as a little background.

Always thought Audiogon was a cool and unique place and have seen it's development as an important part of the HEA chapter of this hobby.

Michael Green

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

Can I make a suggestion. Sometimes it’s good to take a step out of internet forums for a few days and take a breath then come back in. When an internet forum becomes so much a part of your life that you start policing it maybe it’s time to step outside and take a breather.

The audio industry is changing and has been for a while. As well the late 90’s-late 2010’s generation of HEA is coming to it’s end game in many ways (the overbuilt over priced hobby). The new school is replacing the old and the old school (pre late 90’s) is having fun enjoying itself. There’s nothing about this hobby that is worth being abusive toward other members. That’s an issue for the forum owners to address.

I personally don’t read a lot of the threads here, but when I do happen across one that is an obvious flame I usually pass, because I don’t see the benefit or maturity in bashing. When I do see a basher the first thing that comes into my mind is "there’s a very sad person, someone who is certainly not a real listener". Real listeners are not unhappy people and if they are they usually keep to themselves. The folks you see disruptive on internet forums are not the real deal, never have been and never will be. Keep in mind that flamers can’t stand real folks and will do anything they can get away with to hurt others. Others of these folks honestly simply don’t have any other life of their own and these too are easy to spot after you are here a while.

Michael Green

http://www.michaelgreenaudio.net/

I see some manufacturers are taking notice and having threads pulled that their dealers are on, a wise move.

I don't think some of these dealers have any idea how much damage they are doing to the manufacturers they are representing. I've seen two in just a short time that I have felt horrible for all because the dealer could not control themselves. If I was these brands I would yank my product out of these stores so fast they would be gone before you could spill a hot cup of coffee on your britches. To boot I would make sure the memo got out to never get near this dealer.

For the folks who don't realize how much times are changing, having a reckless dealer out there can burn your company to the ground. I'm going to give one example without mentioning the brand.

We brought in a product 2 years ago that we were considering having at a show mixed in with some of our toys. The products were very high dollar and get mentioned here often. We did our usual evaluation and setup this highly reviewed product to only have it blown away by a $29.00 CDP tuned up by us. Their amp went through the same process and failed miserably against literally every other amp in the house except for one, who it barely held it's own against. The company behind the scenes bought back the components and asked we not mention their name.

People need to realize that we are not living under the rule of reviewers anymore and their less than legit ways. Frankly there are some amazing products out there and more coming out that not only compete but many times are taking on the high dollar brands. These products cost pennies and those getting wise to them are scoring big time.

I'm one designer who has been around forever and am not going to be shy about helping the lower cost products make their way into listeners homes. I mean it's like buying a perfect new york pizza for a penny, why would you not share this news. Sorry dealers and manufacturers you should have been more up on your designing and thinking less about how to squeeze the last dollar out of good people. This wonderful trend of getting more for pennies is not going to go away by intimidation, it is a serious paradigm shift and well over due.

Michael Green