When I brought up ANK not being affiliated with Audio Note (uk), it was not to disparage, in any way, ANK. I was merely saying that the products are not the same. ANK utilizes the same sort of "level" system and says it uses genuine Audio Note parts, etc., but: 1) the circuits are slightly different; just because some parts are sources from Audio Note, it does not mean the quality of all parts are the same; and 3) the "level" ascribed by ANK are not necessarily the equivalent of those of Audio Note.
I personally have limited experience with the ANK kits. A friend built a DAC that sounded very good to me, so I know that they are capable of making very good kits that represent a solid bargain. I just don't know how their products stack up against Audio Note.
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I've heard Audio Note speakers at Deja Vu Audio in Northern VA and Vu had them set up with a Synthesis integrated amp. They sounded very, very nice. The Synthesis brand has been on my radar since then. Deja Vu struck me as being the model of how a good audio retailer should operate. Each of his listening rooms sounded great, each clearly set up with a lot of attention to detail, and Vu was very generous with his time and experience, and not at all pushy. A stark contrast to dealing with some of the 'used car salesmen' one encounters at rival stores.
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Rooze,
I completely agree with you about Deja Vu Audio and Synthesis. I too, really like their amps and think that the A40 (KT66, built in DAC) would be a fantastic choice with the AN-K, except that the OP has a Backert linestage and is only looking for a power amp.
I own a Deja Vu custom-built linestage and a Deja Vu custom-built stereo power amp based on a Western Electric 133a amplifier (has genuine Western Electric parts, including the correct input and output transformers). I actually like the 133a amp more than i do the Audio Note Kageki amps I also own. This store is certainly a place to discover gear you will not find anywhere else and experience a different kind of sound that is a far cry from conventional high end.
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He however, is squarely in the SET camp and suggested Quests given my price range and need for a dedicated power amp.
@scottya118 SETs have this way of more and more limited bandwidth as you increase power. Usually this means 7-8 Watts (usually via a 300b) is as much power as you can get and still call it 'hifi'. Since output transformer bandwidth falls off with power (its not the tube's fault!) usually its the bass octave that suffers as bass response is usually the hardest to get when designing an output transformer.
That is why I recommended a push-pull amplifier! A 20 Watt or even a 60 Watt PP amp will have wider bandwidth (for example the H/K Citation 2 has bandwidth past 100KHz) and will have much lower distortion.
To give you an idea of the latter, a typical SET is 10% distortion at full power (which is why you usually don't want to run them past about 20% of full power...). A PP amp might be 1%. BUT- and this is a big one- the distortion of the PP amp is considerably lower at the power level that an SET makes at full power! Depending on the amp, by a couple of orders of magnitude.
Distortion obscures detail plain and simple. With a good PP amp its no problem making out detail in the rear of the sound stage that you can't with the best SETs.
I know Vu, we've shown at audio shows in the past and he's a good guy, but in this case I think he's giving you bad advice: your room is a bit on the large side- and the Audio Note speakers are not as efficient as they claim IMO. That's why I recommend a bit more power than will be practical with an SET.
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Food for thought and thanks for the response Atmasphere. Vu's tube preferences for the K's were 300B's and 6L6's. That conversation and your comments bring something like the Canary M-90 to mind. Anyone had experience with that one? -Scott
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I am a BIG fan of the 6L6 tube, but, that would mean a pushpull amp. The KT 66 is a very similar sounding tube. Both have a rich, harmonically dense sound without sounding murky or sluggish or soft on dynamics (some of my personal issue with some 300B amps). I love real or clones of Western Electric 124 amps (350B tube, which is the very expensive equivalent of the 6L6 tube) running the 6L6 tube, and other 6L6 vintage amps, like some RCA amps and Northern Electric amps. There are not that many current production 6L6 amps because they put out less power than roughly comparable tube types (e.g., EL34, KT88, 6550) which makes it hard to market a 6L6 amp to buyers who seem to only recognize power as a quality factor.
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@larryi
I would concur … 6L6 amps often sound 2nd harmonicly rich but with good base and top end extension.
One of my favourites being Sansui AU-111 intergrated from the mid 60’s , fantastic bandwidth Hashimoto transforms dont hurt either.
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That Sansui integrated looks terrific, and with Hashimoto trannies, it probably sounds great too (I have not heard this amp).
I know a young man who has heard various Western 124 clone amps (Deja Vu Audio) using vintage transformers and liked the sound so much that he planned on designing and building his own clone. Unfortunately, he got to hear the same clone amp with the real deal Western Electric 171C transformer. After that experience, he put aside the idea of building a clone because the model with the real output transformers sounded so much better, but, those transformers would make the build too expensive. That is how it goes in audio, something sounds really nice and you love it until you hear something better and that spoils your joy over the lesser item.
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@larryi … Unfortunately So, unless one goes OTL with say one of Ralph’s superb amplifiers the Quality of Iron is King
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Some great discussion here @rooze @larryi and @tsushima1 I have also heard that Synthesis A40 actually driving the exact same speakers I own AN-J/lx's really lovely sounding and such a good value. I've not ever owned a 6l6 amp but have always been curious so many folks I know with good ears love them, I also love the KT77 tube as a replacement for the EL34.
That Sansui amp looks great and I'm sure it sounds fantastic I'm guessing if you could find one it would be serious $$$. And yes iron is king I've been lucky to have bback to back amps using vintage trannies first Accrosound and now Eico and love that sound.
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I built a 6FW5 pp about ten years back using Sansui 1000A pulls for OPTs. Sounded very nice for vintage iron. Hashimoto does build good transformers.
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Iron is indeed the king with tube gear, for both pushpull and single-ended amps. There is hardly anything new and novel in tube design, so most of it comes down to parts quality, build quality and voicing by the designer.
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You are entirely correct; there is very little novel in the area of tube design (unless you count ss assist). Most ’designers’ simply optimise component values for their particular application of a certain pre-documented circuit, or at the most give it a mild tweak - and sometimes they don’t even get that right. Ironically. some recent ’advances’ have have occured due to the re- examination of long forgotten texts.
There have been, and are very few true innovators coming up with novel ideas and making advances in the field. And I certainly don’t count myself among them.
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Considering a Decware Tori II MkV for my K's. Atmasphere's comments were influencing on this thread. Have certainly decided that a 20-40W pentode design is a good path. Keeping in mind the K's are in a 12x26 room go with KT 66, 77, or 6L6 for an "EL-84 tactile and immediate" kind of sound? Other considerations are C-J classic 62, and BAT VK-56. There's a listing on Canuck Audio Mart for a pair of Master Sound (Italy) 845 monobloc's. Another worthy consideration? -Scott
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Have certainly decided that a 20-40W pentode design is a good path. Keeping in mind the K's are in a 12x26 room go with KT 66, 77, or 6L6 for an "EL-84 tactile and immediate" kind of sound?
If it were me I'd be looking for an amp with Ultra-Linear operation since UL allows the output section to have the same linearity as a triode. Or find an amp that is actually triode. Push-pull amps that are triode, even using Directly Heated Triodes do exist.
Ultra-linear is nice since the power tubes usually used are easy to find. Since you don't need all that much power a 6L6 or EL34 based amp would certainly do the job.
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