Linn Bedrok LP12 Plinth Upgrade

@daveyf

Question is what price is it that elicits push back??

Answering that question is why marketing people get paid!

Or to put it another way, is the Pro-Ject Signature too inexpensive to be taken seriously by audiophiles?  I am sure it is a tempting upgrade for owners of lesser Pro-Jects ...

@richardbrand  It would seem that the marketing people believe that in high end audio, the sky is the limit. 

Yet, there seems to be significant price hesitancy in the used market at the moment. I know of a couple of fine folks who are trying to sell their used gear at considerable discounts and still not getting any activity. 

@richardbrand

…….and marketing…..and at what price

Mylogic…..Always buy hi-fi (except maybe for cartridges) second hand.

Buying second hand will always be a win win.
The same theory applies to buying cars……As soon as a new car is driven off the forecourt you have appreciably devalued it. Buy a car from someone who has recently done just that!

Same applies to hi-fi.

The loss (if any) selling used is far less. ‘’Hesitancy’’ in the used market is probably caused by sellers who after buying at full list price are now asking for ridiculous sums.

Do the Math…..Simples!

After thought….…..remember some things are just too highly priced with sales pitches and marketing hype.

@dover 

diamond hardening refers to a heating and cooling process used to harden the steel, it is not a coating. The Dohmann uses maraging steel - which is really an alloy, likely including elements of copper and nickel that results in a harder steel than ferrous metals, more stable

I just looked at Dohmann Audio's website and for the Helix One Mk3 they claim:

• Diamond Like Coating Amorphous Material Bearing Friction Modifier (DLC)

To me this looks like the real thing, especially the low friction effect.  Of course, the coating may be applied to a hard steel shaft.  Many claim to use 'tool steel' but maraging steels are also hard.  They are characterised by very low carbon contents but typically are around 15% nickel.

Once upon a time I was a metallurgist, and I do apologise for the naming confusions we promulgate.  All steels are actually alloys (mixtures), but the term 'alloy steel' is used where carbon is not the main alloying element.  Ferrous metals are alloys where the main element is iron, which is true of all steels.

Hardness in these contexts is measured by pressing a diamond into the metal, and measuring the size of the indentation.  Rockwell C uses a conical diamond, whereas the Vickers hardness test uses a pyramid shape.  Diamond is harder than any metal, hence my inquiry into what 'diamond hardened' really means.

Just as an aside, I worked at a Vickers subsidiary which was at that time the most modern alloy steel plant in Europe.  We made hundreds of grades, and the final test was using an angle grinder to throw off sparks which could be compared against hundreds of samples.  The length, shape and colour of the fireworks reflected the underlying composition of the alloy.

Talking of sparks, after working close to three-phase, 110-ton electric arc furnaces with 2-foot diameter electrodes shorting onto cold scrap, I amazed I can still hear.  120-dbA.  Mind you, the furnaces were drowned out when rail cars, two at a time, full of scrap, were tippled so the scrap fell down a huge chute into an even bigger bucket.  Lots of uncontrolled resonances!

@daveyf

"I suspect these very same folk would have little problem with the same looking Bedrok if it was priced at three times the current ask. Question is what price is it that elicits push back??"

I can’t imagine Linn would have sold many Bedroks at $33,000 each. That would have made the upgrade as expensive their top turntable new with arm, cartridge and phono stage. Remember very few Klimax LP12 owners paid that much in the first place - the vast majority have upgraded in steps over many years or decades. Some like me bought second hand.

Gilad has said that they design products to sound as best they can make them. Then they set the price to make their required profit margin. It isn’t in their interests to set prices any higher as they’d sell less product.

Having said that, I think they may have been tempted to go for a higher than normal margin with the Bedrok because they can only produce them in low volumes anyway - a kind of rationing by price. I am guessing here, but it does fit.

It is a very expensive turntable upgrade in comparison to Linn's other offerings.

$11,000 rules me out, but who knows I might have been interested at half that price.