Linlai E 6sn7 tubes

@xcool  Tks for your thoughts. I was actually excited by these tubes, still am. But its somewhat disheartening to know there are various models out there and not a single authenticated piece which we all can chime on, considering they are  relatively pricey. Well at the end of the day, its how these tubes sound.  From my initial reading here, the ones with horizontal letterings seem to sound of quality, likewise the ones with vertical letterings,  not sure which is better. But if it is of quality to start off with, than its a good investment either way.  So am keeping my fingers crossed as I continue to burn in these tubes.

@ram18 Yes, I couldn’t agree more. At the end of the day, it’s what sounds good to you that matters most.

Kudos to @rocray that started this thread. I’ve been thinking about getting some good sounding new production tubes and not relying on the NOS market. Who knows how long the NOS supplies are going to last.

All of this back and forth about whether or not the tubes without the Global branding are counterfeit or in some way inferior seems kind of nuts to me.  The simplest and most likely explanation is that the tubes are in fact identical, exactly as they appear to be, and they are simply branded differently for different markets.  The Global branding is a deliberate attempt to sow confusion in Western markets so that 1) distributors are willing to invest in distributing them and 2) they can sell at a higher price.

NOS tubes are exactly the same with many Sylvania and GE tubes etc. etc. selling under many brand names for exactly the same tube.

Perhaps Grant Fidelity adds a separate testing step but the idea that they are getting superior tubes seems ridiculous.  If it helps you sleep at night and you are willing to pay more then buy from them.  Or assume the risk of a more difficult  return and buy from an eBay or Aliexpress seller.  But the idea that tubes that are internally identical but have different lettering are functionally different seems ludicrous.

@pinwa NOS tubes are exactly the same with many Sylvania and GE tubes etc. etc. selling under many brand names for exactly the same tube. But the idea that tubes that are internally identical but have different lettering are functionally different seems ludicrous.

REALLY?

My Linlai elite tubes look identical to the ones pictured on Grant Fidelity's site, so I believe pinwa has a point.

I understand what he wrote, but WHY do the tubes sound different?

I have to say that I’ve been confused about global, non global…… Last night I’m doing some listening,and whatever it’s worth,the Linlai’s that I currently run, sound better in my Motherlode II than any other tube I currently own. Now, I’m not saying that I have experience with 100’s of NOS tubes,and I am the ultimate expert.  I am a relative novice in comparison to others that share their knowledge here.  Other than the cathode material incident, these tubes have been silent, and give me a great textured, full spectrum response with a bigger soundstage than I have experienced before. However,we all hear,and desire something a little different.   I mentioned earlier about the value about ordering from a reputable dealer vs ordering from an epay vendor.  That,of course,still stands.  As with most things in life,proceed with caution, and do what you are comfortable with. 

@danmar123   I may have missed out on a thread. Do they sound different?

Pinwa, Many audiophile here have said Grant Fidelity had high quality tube, I agree I have tasted their quality tube compare to some of the US dealers.But you have to pay premium price, Is it worth it? Yes it is.

@wig

@ram18 Absolutely. The tubes that @bugredmachine sent me also sounded different, (made in China). No base, & Very open top end.

@jayctoy I agree. We get what we pay for.

I just don't like how my tubes presents the low end on my rig. Not as defined (Bloated) as my other tubes. That's why their up for sale.

The pavane 6sn7 I got from China dealer are good too.

On a slightly different topic:

Has anyone tried tube rings on the Global E-6SN7's?

I have no experience with tube rings, so just asking if we might hear an improvement.

I was recently looking for two matched pairs of 845 tubes.  Everyone I talked to suggested PSvane Acme Series as the way to go.  That used to be the recomendation from Grant Fidelity as well.  Then Grant had a falling out with PSvane, and suddendly those tubes are crap and Linlai is the best thing since sliced bread.  I had some conversations with Grant (owner is actually a lady) and she mostly complained about the way PSvane was treating her as a customer.  Very little talk about the quality issue until it got around to her new supplier.  I am always leary of anything a retailer has to say about a product once they no longer carry the item.  Of course the new prodict is going to be so much better.   Short story long, I used DHGate, a Chinese version of Amazon, and order a couple pairs of PSvane 845's.  Order was fulfilled by a company called China HIFI Audio.  The tubes arrived at my front door by DHL in 11 days.  Good tracking all the way.  They sounded good right from the start and my system sounds fabulous about a couple hundred hours.  

@danmar123  Tks for the update.  

Your welcome.

You're

Perhaps Grant Fidelity adds a separate testing step but the idea that they are getting superior tubes seems ridiculous.  If it helps you sleep at night and you are willing to pay more then buy from them.  Or assume the risk of a more difficult  return and buy from an eBay or Aliexpress seller.  But the idea that tubes that are internally identical but have different lettering are functionally different seems ludicrous.

Hey @pinwa, no need to get all fired up on this.  You're certainly entitled to your opinion, and thanks for sharing your thoughts!  

Some people, including myself, just like to make an informed buying decision.   I want to know what I am paying for, and I don't like to pay more than I have to.   Since the manufacturer would not acknowledge those tubes with a different logo, hands on experiences shared by members like @danmar123 ​​​​and @rocray are very valuable.  Isn't that what most members are here for?

Anyway, it's all good. It's part of the fun of this hobby 😀

Cheers!

And so it was that Shuguang beget PSvane, who beget Linlai.......    It's a story of bibical proportions.  🤣

@bigtwin 

I'm waiting for Western Electric to come into play. eg 6sn7

I’m waiting for the WE version too @danmar123. However,the info they recently released,says nothing about a 6SN7. I guess time will tell. 

I don't know what they could possibly do to make them sound so different if the internal structure looks identical.

Maybe the amount of gases??????

Bought a pair after following this awesome thread.

I do quite a bit of tube rolling with my Freya+. My system and recording studio is very revealing of gear. After burning in, this is my take on them. Really nice tight bass. I'm very particular about bass. Voices are sweet, fun and alive. The top end is just a bit too ’sparkle plenty’ for my tastes. Almost like the original recording engineer, decided to add a just a taste of tight reverb. Which to me created a bit of a mask of what was beneath. Don’t get me wrong, these are wayyyy better than JJ’s, Electroharmonics, standard GE’s and standard Sylvania's etc, etc. They are great, just not my cup of tea. I’m back to my reference uncolored Russian military tubes.

Bought em for $200, selling them on ebay for $150. 60 hours of burn in, and a couple hours of listening.

Cheers guys!

There shouldn't be any gases in a 6sn7 tube

When you spoke to Grant Fidelity about the Chinese 6sn7 session ( the ones with the horizontal letterings) did they say it wasnt originals or just a matter of distribution in Asian markets as we had discussed prior. Also do you have the Globals too ( the ones with vertical letterings) and if so, how do the Chinese 6sn7 Linlais compare to the Globals.

 "I understand why they sound good in the Freya and Sachs preamps when used with a complimentary cathode follower."  May I know what you mean by this? Err in layman terms please. 

Complimentary tube means a different pair of tubes which add their sonic signature to the total sound; ie, using a neutral tube with extended highs such as Linlai in the gain-stage and a Ken Rad with powerful bass and holographic sound as followers. Both sets of tubes contribute to the overall sound.

Grant Fidelity didn't comment on my Linlai with horizontal lettering. Rachel only inferred the difference between the HIFI tubes as entry level and not up to the performance of the Globals.

I'm disappointed with the Chinese E-6SN7, nothing special about them. They lack bass extension and are basically dull sounding in the mids. This Is the first time a tube has sounded better during the burnin phase compared to completely bedded-in. Lots of bass when first installed then turned into a bland sound overall. 

I've since replaced Linlai with Ken Rads, Melz, various Sylvania and sonics are much more engaging.

@lowrider57  Tks for the clarification. Got that part on complimentary tubes. Well sorry the Chinese 6sn7s did not work out for you. @rocray and others have been seeing good results with the Chinese 6sn7s.  Possibly in your case the match may not have been exactly right. Also a strange case of tubes sounding poorer after bedding in. Well looks like  you have a great array of NOS tubes. So happy tube rolling!

@rah50 

 

On a slightly different topic:

Has anyone tried tube rings on the Global E-6SN7's?

I have no experience with tube rings, so just asking if we might hear an improvement.

Tube dampers are used to tighten up the resonances produced by a tube. A damper can help suppress the ringing sound from a slightly microphonic tube, once the tube has become fully microphonic nothing will help. Dampers will also tighten up a booming bass.

The reason I used them in one of my setups was when I had components with exposed tubes, audio rack on side wall, and the speaker dispersion was hitting the tubed components causing vibration.

Thanks @ram18 . The difference between the E-6SN7 horizontal logo and the Grant Fidelity Global Elite is still a mystery to me. There must be more than a different logo and different base. Specs may be different due to plate current and maybe emissions or different getter elements.

I wouldn't doubt if they are the same tube, maybe screened a little better from Grant Fidelity. If they truly are different, then why doesn't Linlai just say what the difference is inside the tube. All I know is my elite 6sl7 tubes sound better than my old favorite 1940's ken rad 6sl7 tubes, they even beat the ken rads in bass detail and impact, but the jury is still out on longevity.

@invalid 

It's great to hear about the performance of your Elite tubes. And to beat out 1940's Ken Rads especially in the bass is a big deal. I swapped out my E-6SN7 for a Ken Rad black glass and instantly had deep extension and full-bodied sound.

A couple of us have contacted Linlai factory and Grant Fidelity regarding a difference in tubes and both sidestepped the question. Linlai's answer is to only buy from their dealer, Grant Fidelity. Their warning about unauthorized dealers on Ebay is clear enough. But GF would only comment on the 2 types of 6SN7's they sell.

Based on the results of your Elites, and the poor performance of my horizontal lettered E-6SN7 in Audio Note and Atma-sphere components, I believe there are two different types of tubes. Just about any other 6SN7 inserted into my Audio Note preamp produces deep bass.

The grid structure between the two Linlai's may appear to be the same, but there must be something different internally. 

@hollykumi Hi . I own a Schiit Freya + as well. Just wish to ask what tubes you felt matched well with the amp in terms of sound quality from your perspective. My speakers are Klipsch 6000f RP  by the way.

After reading about how well the Ken Rad Vt 231s perform, am tempted to get these to match my Linlais at the buffer stage of my Freya +.  These are 6sn7s. Again there are two variations, clear glass and black glass. Is there any difference between the two?  I have someone selling the black glass KR vt231 6sn7 version locally. And overall will the Ken Rads be a signifcant upgrade from Sylvanias. As the KRs are a bit pricey, appreciate views from those who have experienced these tubes before I purchase. Thanks!

Some say the black glass ken rads are better, but they both perform very well.

@invalid Tks for sharing!

@ram18 

I have a few sets of K/R & Sylvania JAN's, in my system the Sylvania's are more clear sounding, so I mix both sets to my likening. You can't wrong with the Black glass! Even Tung Sol pre 50's are no slouch, if you can find them.

The best place to buy the ken rads is vintage tube service, but you might have to wait a while to get them as he is backed up right now.

@ram18 -

     Brent Jessee mentions having 40’s, VT-231 Ken-Rads in stock.

     I loaned a pair of black glass, to a fellow ’goner, some months ago, "just to try." 

     Haven’t heard from them since.     Guess they liked ’em!

     The bottom-gettered Sylvanias, listed just below the Ken-Rads, are what I’m presently using.   I prefer them to the Ken-Rads, but: still have a couple pair of the VT-231 Rads, for back-up.

                                  Brent Jessee’s website, 6SN7 page:

                                 http://www.audiotubes.com/6sn7.htm

After pulling the E-6SN7 Linlai from my system, I'm back to my typical setup. Amp; K-R black glass VT-231 in gain stage, Sylvania VT-231 as follower, and Sylvania 6SN7GT 1952 bottom-getter as driver/phase inverter. Preamp has Tung-Sol VT-231 round plates. 

@rodman99999 

I stocked up on Sylvania GT bottom-getter 2 and 3 hole plates (Bad Boys) as prices started to rise. Also have a couple pair of WWII VT-231.

@lowrider57 -

     I don’t even remember buying my pair of two hole, t-plate, bottom-gettered, VT-231 Sylvanias, or: ever having listened to them.

     Must have been when I was going through that 6SN7 comparison from Chimera Labs, and trying everything on it (+), decades back.

     BUT: when I bought Brent Jessee’s last matched pair of round plate Tung-Sols (my fourth pair), a couple years ago and found the Sylvanias hidden in my stash, I tried them in concert in my Cary monoblocks.

     Nothing I’d tried before had given me the organics and sound stage depth of that combo.

                                            They’re still in there!

@rodman99999 

I assume you're talking about the Sylvania VT-231, the 1st generation of the GT's. They're fantastic, super quiet, revealing, holographic. They dont go very deep but I get the bass extension from other tubes.

Right now there are more VT-231's available than the early 50 GT.

Hi All thanks for your impressions. Looks like the Ken Rad black plate stands up to its reviews based on your impressions.  @invalid  @danmar123 @rodman99999  I am actually getting my  KR black tubes locally here in Singapore.  Just wish o check  if the ones am planning to get  in the link below are the same  KR black  glass NOS tubes you are referring ?

Thinking of replacing my Sylvania GTBs with the KRs along with my Linlai at buffer stage. The Sylvanias are pretty good but lacks a bit of bass which the KRs  seem to have in abundance. Am still running my Linlais (non global ones)  in the gains and if it doesnt measure up, then I plan to remove my Linlais at gains and  combine the KRs with the Sylvanias. 

Appreciate if you can help by letting me know if the KRs black glass in the link below are the right KRs am getting.   Dont wish to get the wrong versions like the Linlais I purchased. You need to drag down the pic as its sold. But the dealer told me he still has stock. Guess its used.  Thank you.

@ram18 

 That's them!

@danmar123  Oh Great! Its cheaper here locally compared to US prices.

I have 2 pair KR VT-231 Black glass and 2 pair VT-231 clear glass. The last time I called Andy at VTS, a pair of black glass was $400. So I bought the clear glass for about $200.

I swear the BG have better bass than the clear, but Andy said that's not true. Outstanding tubes.

@lowrider From what I have read, some do say black KRs have better bass. Great to hear these are outstanding tubes though. I recall you do have the Sylvanias too. Do you rate the KRs better? Tks for your impressions.

@ram18 -

     Those are the ones.

     The CKR, bottom-gettering and copper rods (at the top), are a dead giveaway.

      Be very careful about obtaining tubes rigorously tested/guaranteed for low noise, if they're going in a preamp.

@rodman99999  Tks. Glad to hear they are the same. These tubes are going to be plugged into my preamp. Not sure to have it at the gains or buffer stage yet. Tks for alerting on the testing part. Am new to tune rolling, so will be relying on my dealer to do the testing.

+1 Rodman for noise testing.