Linear tracking turntables, whatever happened?

And Harold, Whether you like it or not, there is no such thing as "friction-less" in the real world.  Ergo, if the groove is guiding the stylus tip, there is a side force generated at the stylus due to friction at the junction (and the mass) between the arm wand and the tube upon which it rides. Albeit the best air bearing tonearms are pretty successful in minimizing this problem.  Why is it so upsetting to mention that?

testpilot, Thanks for supplying the name of that company, Bergmann.  If you re-read my post, you will see that I mentioned first that there was one German company I could not name, and second that I thought Brinkmann might also make an all-in-one SL turntable.  On that score, I may be right or wrong.

Ct and Harold, NO, as I mentioned, I have never owned an SL tonearm.  And NO, I don't categorically dislike the idea.  I have had a long-standing interest in the Trans-fi Terminator, which you can probably verify by doing a search here.  I have heard it and other air-bearing tonearms many times, and I agree they have a lot to offer. Up to now, if I were to want to experiment with an SL tonearm, the Trans-fi would still be my choice.  I do have an opinion that the Rabco SL8, which I have heard many many times, and the Souther are not the way I would go.  These are my opinions.  So sue me.

^- :_)
It never fails to amaze me when people post comments on Hi-Fi gadgets they have never seen live in action not to mention heard.
FYI the best air bearing TAs do not need fancy devices such as servos to show the way, the groove takes over. So any force or resistance is futile. As seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6nMtn8oEJg

Audio and picture may not be the highest quality but hope you like the music as well : )

Good night

But.... after painful setup.... with a Dynavector Ruby the Souther on a SOTA Sapphire could be made to sing !!!!!!

@uberwaltz my sense is several things happening near simultaneously decline of LP in 80’s so investment in mass market even high end table refinement declined
some like B&O required unique cartridges, which were not great...
the relatively simple but consumer rugged servo drives / sensors hunted a lot and did not sell well.....
disclaimer - I managed a sizable dealerships at that time, our only Linear was the Souther, we had Denon, SOTA, thorens, etc

@lewn wrote The only full bore turntable/SL tonearm available now comes from Germany, I think, but I cannot recall its name. Another German company, Brinkmann may also make one.

I believe you are referring to Bergmann and not Brinkmann

^^^^
I have heard it said many times in the past, that it was the DJ’s in clubs that saved "turntables" when CD took over. They used sl1200’s and the like. Very durable built like tanks. Came in a bomb proof silver case.
There is no way an SL10 linear tracker would have lasted one night in a club.

8^0

These are very good comments but I am still left wondering what was wrong with the general consumer models like the Revox, B&O, Technics etc that caused their lack of acceptance.
Surely it was not just all down to the fact that people treated them more like cd players as alluded to?

I've been running a Kuzma Airline for more than 12 years. I like it, it is made well, no issues other than dealing with air compressor, which adds an additional layer of complication to what is otherwise a pretty straightforward design and execution. Otherwise, pretty easy to set up and dial in, minimal maintenance.
I gather the Trans-Fi is the cat's meow at an easily digestible price. 
I remember the Rabco. I think the arm on the Goldmund Reference (old) was similar, but there were/are tweaks to get it to play nicely. 

Atmasphere.

The best linear tracker tonearms use the same force for movement as a pivot arm - the groove.

This depends on what is meant by this statement.

ok - I will rephrase.
The best linear tracker tonearms use the same force for movement across the record as a pivot arm - the groove.

Atmasphere
Quite often with such arms the side to side forces on the cantilever become the tracking angle error! This can exceed a good radial tracking arm.

Firstly - no one I know that owns an expensive tonearm any type - plays bad-ass records where side to side forces on the cantilever become any type of problem. A quick call to Peter at Soundsmith on what he sees when he fixes carts, will illuminate all on side forces with improper anti skating.  
I was talking about the best ones only Atmasphere. Don't be general in your statement Give examples please; maybe in a thread on this topic, and when posting about tonearms in general;  I personally feel you should be using your business partnership with Tri-planar disclaimer on each post.   

Cheers

Lewm - so I take it then that your answer is NO  - you have never owned a Linear tracker in your room ?

Ct, In the absence of any friction at the pivot point, yes there is no need for any external force to move the arm wand/cartridge across the LP surface.  However, in the real world, there is never zero friction.  Thus we first had the Rabco SL8, referred to by Ralph, which used a servo motor to nudge the pivot each time the arm wand moved in tiny arcs at the stylus contact point; the Rabco makes a series of tiny arcs all across the LP surface, the servo motor makes noise, yadayada.  Arguably, it's not even a true SL tonearm.  The Goldmund TF tonearm is naught but a very expensive copy of the Rabco idea.  We also have the Souther tonearm which operates in concert with a "dished" platter (marketed in recent years by Clearaudio), so that the cartridge "falls" toward the spindle whilst riding on a rail.  The most pure form of the art is the air bearing type, which at least strives for zero friction.  But since that is impossible, side forces are created, as described by Ralph. In addition, one must fuss with air pumps, etc. But certain examples, like the Terminator, can be very good. I don't need to own an SL tonearm or turntable in order to know these things.  What about you?

The only full bore turntable/SL tonearm available now comes from Germany, I think, but I cannot recall its name.  Another German company, Brinkmann may also make one.

The best linear tracker tonearms use the same force for movement as a pivot arm - the groove.

This depends on what is meant by this statement.
A number of linear trackers employ an air bearing, and thus have lateral tracking mass that is several times that of the vertical tracking mass. Quite often with such arms the side to side forces on the cantilever become the tracking angle error! This can exceed a good radial tracking arm.


So I'm not sure that qualifies as 'The best'.


A servo to control the rear of the arm as the arm moves across the LP (such as the old Rabco SL8) is a better solution, although the Rabco itself had many other problems. But if a modern version of such an arm were built, it could easily solve most of the issues that were a plague to the Rabco.

Uberwaltz
IMO - Those decks are probably the closest thing to the convenience of a CD player.
Put in a record and close the cover. But owning a good TT rig requires TT hygiene. The record and stylus needs maintenance and cleaning. Its I think easier to forget about this especially to a younger person. The styli , from younger lazy people (like my son i.e.) , probably got so gunked up with dust and other debris that they deteriorated the sound worse and worse over time. The stylus hard to see if you can believe it.  

With the focus on convenience they were made very compact with a tiny tonearm/plinth. Not good.  But overall for its size still had heft.. 

I used to own an sl1200 that I used to loan out to people.  I should have done a comparison shootout with the sl10 when I had the chance for curiosity. But have since sold the sl1200 ...and ...unlike my stocks  8^(((... the sl1200 has gone up in price... alot !  

It would be foolish to judge a linear tonearm by the look. Should they be made of gold and diamonds to please all the doubting Thomas´ and naysayers ?

As our fast running friend just pointed out, OP may very well refer to vintage packaged deal TT setups. Actually my friend once had that Technics SL10 and it worked just fine and sounded quite convincing.
Beautiful gadget.

@ct0517 
You are correct,my initial thread post was in reference to the all in one decks like the Revox b795 etc.
I do realise there are still a number of aftermarket linear tonearm for sale.

But not really anything you see sold as a complete package ready to go as per conventional tonearm/belt drive/direct drive TT are.

So more of a question along the lines of why did they appear to fail as a package deal to the consumer in general?

Lewm - As to the problems, everything of a technical nature has its pluses and minuses. So for a linear tracking tonearm, the problem is to drive the tonearm and cartridge across the LP surface, some sort of for force is required. That can be in some cases a servo motor, in some cases gravity, and in some cases just an attempt at zero friction back at the pivot point.

Huh?

The best linear tracker tonearms use the same force for movement as a pivot arm - the groove.

But they do not need antiskating and the cart does not sit at an offset.

Have you ever actually owned and used a linear tracker in your room, Lewm ?  

****

Uberwaltz - I believe you are referring to the packaged deal TT setups that included a table, tonearm, cart and available for reasonable amounts? Something like the Technics SL10 I have kicking around in a closet somewhere.

Normally they are the ugliest 

 First of all, what makes you say that the idea of linear tracking is dead? While there are not many all in one linear tracking turn tables on the market these days, there are still several high-quality linear tracking tonearms available. And as someone else has already mentioned, one of the best is the  trans-fi  terminator. It was off the market for a while, but I now believe it is for sale once again. As to the problems, everything of a technical nature has its pluses and minuses. So for a linear tracking tonearm, the problem is to drive the tonearm and cartridge across the LP surface,  some sort of for force is required. That can be in some cases a servo motor, in some cases gravity, and in some cases just an attempt at zero friction back at the pivot point.  Usually extremely low friction is obtained by having the pivot point on an air bearing. Many different types of air bearing have been tried, and most of them work to one degree or another. People argue about whether low pressure or high pressure air is best, for one example.Then there are other issues like what is the proper length of the tonearm? At least some devices attempt to ride the cartridge very close to the stylus tip, with almost no “tonearm“. All of these solutions have their pros and cons .

Visit Trans-Fi Audio, UK.
https://www.trans-fi.com/terminatortonearm.htm

I bought mine in late Autumn of 2008, ten years ago when Vic the Magician had just introduced his unique design online. I have lived happily ever since.
Now I have two of them. What you are looking at is the latest implementation with carbon fiber wand.
Have fun ; )