Linear tracking turntables, whatever happened?

Very nice first post and many thanks for sharing that story.
Continue to enjoy your tt and this forum!

Well I ponied up and bought a Nagaoka c502mp cart for my SL-10.
Mighty spendy at $60 shipped😁😁.
It's a decent improvement for sure and now has a very dynamic and forward sound, something I do not mind too much.
I can see it getting a bit more usage now it's in my main system and a half decent Cart installed.

Now I just have to decide whether to buy a top flight p mount cart and if that really would make any significant difference.

Not that there is a huge market in p mounts these days.

Chris
I have to say it is sounding rather good.
Certainly no inner groove distortion, not that I ever really noticed that on the 401 unless my cart setup was way off.
This old AT cart is producing an admirable amount of bass and mid. Some of the top end sparkle is missing compared to the Koetsu in the 401 ( as it should bearing in mind the price difference!).
Certainly very listenable.

Correction to my previous post.
It's an AT92E p mount not a Shure, my bad.

Chris.
Guess it's time for my test mofi pressing of Crime of the Century then.

With the best track being the last track so yes very familiar with it.

Report to follow......

Dragged my old Technics SL-10 out today to take a good look at it. I stopped using it as it had started to sound very sibilant. Plus I had a number of other tables so.
After removing the Azden cart I can see the cause of sibilance. The cantilever was bent to one side, have to put that down to me being clumsy I guess.
Rummaged around in my cart drawer and found an old Shure M-92 variant in a p mount, nice find.
Fitted and sat down and suitably impressed with the SQ in my main rig.

As it takes up so little space I will keep it there for a while and put some miles on it.

This intrigues me and at that price I am SORELY tempted to give it a try on my Garrard 401....

http://www.airprodigy.co.uk/

Just fired up my old sl10 after seeing this thread brought back .
With the Adzen p mount cart in it now, I was pleasantly impressed again .
It resides in my PC room system right now but might have to try it again in my main rig now it has a totally different phono and SUT from the last less than satisfying trial.

I would likely be first  inline for a " New" sl10!

Chris

You could well be right and the older sl10 with a used azden cart may well be suffering from many of the symptoms described under your main causes of sibilance.

Absolutely as the second system total cost is less that the cartridge on my main system it will be much less resolving and likely just does not show up these deficiencies.

Finally got round to placing the sl10 into my main system and what disappointment.

Not because of the sq per se but what must be some mismatch in equipment although it is most odd.

With the sl10 hooked up to my main rig through the GoldNote PH10 there is just very excessive sibilance that cannot be tamed, even dropping loading from 47k to 22k did not rid it even though there was a lot of drop of treble and detail.

Very strange as back in my second system it is perfect, listening to it now.

Chalk it up to system synergy, or lack thereof in this case!

Just been having fun with the sl10.
Have 3 carts for it and been checking out what I prefer.
Still the Adzen is tops followed by the Ortofon MC p mount cart and lastly a Sonus p mount mm ( which I think really needs a new stylus)
This thing has made me lazy though!. Just pop the top, drop an album in, close the top and push start. Enjoy music.

Not got around to placing into the main system yet,so much to do, so little time!

Nice to hear Bimasta.

Not had chance to insert into main rig and in sunny Illinois all next week for work so may be a while but it will be interesting.
Already have a couple of test albums selected that I know well and build towards the tighter grooves.

@slaw 

I understand and take to heart your thoughts my friend!

However it has just about always been my nature, patience has not always been my strong suit! Lol.

But I am now in a position with more disposable income than I used to have and it is hard to resist!

Kind of nice situation to be in though!

The Nottingham table is a keeper forever I think and might just try out arms on it.

The SL-10 may give me some experience of what a linear tracker can do as it was one of the better examples the Japanese built in those wars I think.

Oh then there is the Dual 1019 idler gear drive TT as well.

Yes I am a spoiled brat nowadays!

Chris
I may just do that....
However cw the Azden cart it cost a little bit more than $50 ...lol
It was the Sansui that was just $55 and that was vastly inferior SQ to the SL-10 and has already been relegated.
Maybe tomorrow I will try it.

So I guess my curiosity is sated.

The SL-10 cw Azden YM-P20E sounds mighty good set up in my second system.
Simplicity itself and built like a tank!
It's a keeper for sure.

Chris 
Yes absolute sense especially as my patient searching just found similar information on an old thread on StereoNet Australia of all places!
Apparently the aussies love these things, likely because they will play upside down.... (jk before any angry Ausmen get all wound up!)

Unfortunately as the original excellent mc cart is near unobtanium and I could not find any aftermarket p mount mc carts it will be wearing an Azden YM-P20E for now. So I will just select MM and feed it into my regular mm phono stage.

This was the quote I found, and then a few more posts after it expounding on it a little more

"By the way, the Technics SL-10 doesn't have a built-in MC phono stage or preamp. It's a head amp/pre-preamp; gain stage only, no R.I.A.A. re-equalisation."

I have just acquired a Technics sl10 linear tracker which looks to be fully functional and in good shape.

My question is concerning the RCA out.
It looks like it has a built in phono amp as the little button next to the RCA outs says mm/mc.
Does this mean it cannot be used through a phono amp as there does not appear to be a bypass to this , just choice of mm or mc.
Thank you

Great information.
I have always used and been a fan of the Mitchell clamp rather than a weight per se. Works on any spindle just about and I would have thought would not intrude in the path of any linear arm.
I would think some of the taller weights would not physically fit with the design of some linear arms.

@frogman 

Exactly the type of real world knowledge was looking for.
I did actually see that one on ebay as I have a regular empire cart 

Well to cut a long story short I acquired a Technics Sl10 this morning in fully functional order at a price I don’t think anybody could have walked away from.
Well I could not at any rate.
However it has no cartridge.

So any suggestions for a good p mount cart that is not going to break my bank.
Ones costing twice as much as the TT are out!
Let’s just say sub $100.
A quick look on eBay reveals many options but I have not much idea on good or so so.

I did read that the Shure m92e was supposed to be a decent performer?
So any real world suggestions welcomed!

I do have a question on these higher end arms that just occurred.
Do you need or can you even use any type of record clamp or weight or rim clamp?

Just to give you all a laugh and bring this thread back to the actual area I first envisioned.
I bought an old Sansui P-L45 table in working order but no stylus.
Fitted a replacement AT stylus that was correct to the AT p mount cart in it and spun an album.

I am honestly shocked just how nice it sounds!
For a grand sum of $55 all in.

Talk about the high life!

Great info as usual Chris.

You do not want to know it is supposed to be 78 here today?
Standing here in shorts and t-shirt listening to a ripped CD through my Aries Mini.
Usually save the vinyl until evening.

It seems I really started something here which is wonderful.
However most of it is way over my head and makes me think I must be missing out big time on my vinyl reproduction.
But then I step back take a deep breath and put a record on and think, "well if it gets better than this I am not sure I really need it!"

Keep up the banter and information as some of it is sinking in!

Maybe indeed.
I did see they were selling the et2.5 for $4500 🇺🇸 💵.

Sorry.....

I never even knew that ET was literally just up the road from me, less than a 2 hour drive in all honesty.
Interesting indeed.
In fact the wealth of information I have gathered from this thread makes me glad I started it even though it did have a different slant to it upon conception.
Thanks to all so far.

Frigid weather... lol
Guess I am now one of the soft spoiled southerners as it is 78 degrees here in North East Florida today.

I may experiment with a linear tracker at some stage but it will NOT be with pump and airline et al.

Quite a few other options from what I have learned from this thread which I am very glad I started as it has opened my eyes to a lot of ideas and information.
Thank you all for that so far.

Fairly sure early on in this thread when the Rabco was discussed that Ralph or Lew mentioned the tracking wheel is fairly common item needing replacement along with belts.
Might start there?

Sat down to read Stereophile and one of the first articles was of a new tangential tracking pivoted arm.
Made by Klaudio and coming in at either 9k or 12k it looks like a major mechanical Marvel.

Some other brands of current production tangential arms noted were;
Bergmann , Clearaudio, Kuzma , Reed, Schroeder, Thales, etc.
Still very much alive today.

https://klaudio.com/tangential-tonearm-12-inch-equivalent-kd-arm-ag12

So the Harman Kardon ST7 with the Rabco arm is likely to be one to be avoided. I guess HK bought out Rabco in the seventies and thought this TT would be a good idea

Ketchup
It was not really the setup of an air bearing arm I was referring to.
But more over all the attendant hardware, lines, pumps, etc and the noise however slight from a pump( unless you can set the pump up in another area?).
Just my choice , which is why I started this thread as I am intrigued by the concept of linear tracking but sans air setup.

Prof
I did not want to really comment as the dedication is to be admired for sure.
But if air bearing is the only real way to make a linear tracker work at its best then it absolutely is not for myself either!
However that is not to detract from the concept or to those who do have the dedication and conviction to see it through to the end.
Just not my cup of tea though.

Glenn
The Pre Audio looks very interesting and a very fair price.

Anybody here actually own one?

From responses so far it does appear I can summarise the demise of the linear TT as a package, nothing to do with later linear arms.

They were out at the time that vinyl in general was on a rapid decline due to CD.
They were packaged and marketed for the most part as a simple and easy alternative to CD, with the result that a lot were neglected, heck it would not surprise me if some people did not even realise there was a stylus in there that needed cleaning.
They were somewhat complicated electronically ( required to compete with CD) and as such were more prone to breakdown than regular pivot arm manual TT of the time.

A pity that the general public did not share your enthusiasm Sleepwalker.

I have never tried one of the 80,s linear tables but maybe I will.

These are very good comments but I am still left wondering what was wrong with the general consumer models like the Revox, B&O, Technics etc that caused their lack of acceptance.
Surely it was not just all down to the fact that people treated them more like cd players as alluded to?

@ct0517 
You are correct,my initial thread post was in reference to the all in one decks like the Revox b795 etc.
I do realise there are still a number of aftermarket linear tonearm for sale.

But not really anything you see sold as a complete package ready to go as per conventional tonearm/belt drive/direct drive TT are.

So more of a question along the lines of why did they appear to fail as a package deal to the consumer in general?