I will say, the Trans-Fi Terminator arm is VERY reliable and does not have concerns regarding the air supply. I have one and never had any issues because of the type of pump used. It does sound extraordinarily good for the money and stays the way it's setup. You sometimes have to recenter the carriage if it veers too far to one side--a 2 second adjustment.
Linear tracking turntables, whatever happened?
Curious as to the demise and downfall of the seemingly short lived linear tracking TT.
Just from a geometry point of view I would have thought a linear arm should be superior to one with a fixed pivot that sweeps through an arc.
Obviously there is much more to it than that, sort of the reason for this thread.
I am genuinely interested in trying one out for myself as well.
Just from a geometry point of view I would have thought a linear arm should be superior to one with a fixed pivot that sweeps through an arc.
Obviously there is much more to it than that, sort of the reason for this thread.
I am genuinely interested in trying one out for myself as well.
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uberwaltz uberwaltz Your weather and your dollar exchange are just well....... not fair. My older neighbor is a snowbird. The summers must get unbearable ? The only healthy thing about the ridiculous dollar exchange; is it killed any desire to browse at stuff south of the border. |
Dear @uberwaltz: The TT's you ask for have many limitations and some of them are: some models accepts only plug-in cartridges, others work with cartridges inside a limited weigth range or compliance range, cartridge alignment/tonearm is dedicated you can't change it, in some you married with the tonearm where you can't change it's " flavor " as with removable headshell normal tonearms, audiophiles do not take very seriously those units, are unexpensive and does not "impress/impact " our friends when see it, etc, etc. In the other side, as pivoted tonearm linear tracking tonearm has its own trade-offs ( does not exist the perfection in audio. ) no matters what. I owned the Southern, Denessen and the ET and listened the Forsell, the Kuzma and the ones coming in the Rockport/Walker and Goldmund TTs. The ones listened in other systems I have to say very good megabuck systems. Well, certainly performs a little different than good pivot tonearm designs and the main difference is a critical one: I never heard that its wuality low bass performance been with the rigthness that only can be achieved through a pivot tonearm designs. This is a crucial negative trade-off because bass range quality level performance affects all the system frequency range. The quality level performance in any room/system depends first than all in that bass range management. The Tales tonearm is a pivot design with almost no tracking distortions because tracks in linear way. Btw, some one in this thread posted that the linear tracking tonearm performs with better soundstage and other audiophile sound characteristics adjectives than the pivoted ones but no one of those adjectives exist in the recording and certainly never in a live MUSIC at near field position where the recording microphones are " seated ", there are no facts. You can go with the Tales. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Good question about a myth perpetuated by early “prominent” reviewers whose understanding of proper setup was limited. The ET2 gives me superior bass to any of the pivoting arms that I mentioned previously in terms of natural tonality and, most importantly, agility. Except, of course, unless one considers the overblown and exaggerated bass that the SME V produced in my system to be “better”. Now, re sounstaging? Haven’t had my coffee yet; so, later 😊 |
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Dear @ct0517 : I admire your " devotion " to the ET but even that each tonearm has its own trade offs as I already posted. In those times I bougth new a SOTA TT that came with the ET mounted. As a fact I did it due to really well regarded audio magazynes reviews. No I'm not an expert on the ET but now let me to ask you: how many times did you listen ( at a good home dedicated room full range audio sytems. ) the Rockport, Walker, Goldmund or Kuzma top TT's ? and which are the ET trade-offs? @frogman certainly the SME V is not the best example for rigth low bass range, you can have better bass range for it but needs some tweaks. Maybe both of you need to listen somewhere what I mean with the rigthnes on low bass range. Obviously the best way is in a live music event at near field position ( 1-3m. ) from the source. I don't want to convice any one about and is only my opinion that even is not the main subject on this thread. So please ct05 do not make a " big deal " about. R. |
Rauliruegas - I am disappointed that you were not able to share technical information on how to get the best bass having owned the tonearm. I thought you learned on the ET2 thread about setup, even if you do not still own the tonearm. This is not an ET2 thread so I won't go into setup detail here. The ET tonearm 2.0 and 2.5 versions, are standalone tonearms, designed to be mounted on many types of turntables. To say it was mounted on a Sota or other table, unfortunately does not tell anyone how you actually set up the tonearm "to perform". That's the info that is valuable. Bruce Thigpen, through his business partnerships arranged to have it mounted on a number of turntables. i.e. Sota, Oracle, VPI etc... To answer your question I have heard the Kuzma Airline - same room with an ET2. An MC was mounted on an ET 2.0 and it was mounted on a different, what IMO was a lesser table than the Kuzma table that the Airline was mounted on ; so it was not an apples to apples comparison. Still it was enough for me to stay with the ET knowing what I knew. Regarding Gear and classes of gear. I have no devotion persay to gear. I can also talk passionately about my room, my speakers, amp, preamp, etc... I do run my gear hard - all hobbies - I keep the good ones and that is the end of it. The Gear are not trophies. The only thing of value is the Room/Space and the music; not the digital files - easily replaced - but my record collection. I do believe that gear does fall into classes. For example assume a person owns just a regular Cartridge W, Tonearm X, and it is on turntable Y. If the person then upgrades the turntable to Z and keeps all else the same, and the results are much better. Then it probably can be said that the tonearm in this case, out classed the previous turntable. That's my opinion. With that each time my reference turntable was modded to the better, or bettered with another table - it took my ET 2.5 to new heights. The best bass comes when the tonearm is set up for the highest vertical inertia. |
@ct0517 - I'm interested in your comment about setting the ET for highest vertical inertia. How do you accomplish that? I've had the Kuzma Airline for at least a dozen years and remain happy with it (the only issues have been compressor related and now that I have a relationship with the SIL folks here in Texas, I've pretty much solved that problem, though it does require more maintenance than a conventional arm). Bass? Not in your face, thwacking slam. But if it is on the record, you will hear it. There is something very 'unmechanical" sounding about these arms. I did have an ET that was given to me many years ago, but never got around to setting it up. Herb Wolfe, who only recently passed away, was supplying a lot of the pumps and hardware to the NY audio mafia back in the day. He was a very cool guy. |
The ET is a phenomenal tonearm and I can’t believe it sells for as little as it does. It just pulls out that much more natural detail and subtle soundstage cues which tells me it’s allowing the cart to do its job. I run a portable construction compressor into a water separator into a regulator. It provides me with a half hour play time with a 2 minute run time. Arm is rock solid, never goes out of adjustment. |
Chris’ (ct0517) assertion that high vertical moment-of-inertia produces the best bass is to me, a user of London (Decca) cartridges, VERY interesting. That cartridge exhibits far lower vertical compliance than horizontal, which aligns well with a pickup arm exhibiting higher vertical m-o-i, no? @analogluvr, I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again---Eminent Technology’s Bruce Thigpen is as brilliant a hi-fi designer as there has ever been, including Peter Walker! |
Hi Whart @ct0517 - I'm interested in your comment about setting the ET for highest vertical inertia. How do you accomplish that? The Eminent Technology tonearm comes with four counterweights and it is quite easy to remove enough weight, so that the lightest weight resides at the very end of the I Beam. Highest Vertical Inertia. In recent years due to our demand and interest, Bruce introduced an I Beam that is now in the length he originally intended it to be. Due to constraints with - Dustcovers - from tables it was partnered with, he had to go with a shorter I Beam in the original design. The longer I beam now reduces the weight requirements by half still - increasing vertical inertia even more. The Setup Issue in learning how to use this unique design, most people, including me in the beginning, just used all four weights in setup, and let all the weight reside on I beam, wherever it ended up based on the VTF needed. This is wrong, and sometimes the weights ended up very close to the Air Bearing spindle - not ideal, and goes against the setup design. **************************** On the Airline from what I recall you are provided with two counterweights with the Kuzma ? Correct me if wrong. Try to do set up so that the lightest counterweight is furthest back on the rod. I don't know if two weights give enough option to run this way. Anyone looking to setup an ET 2.0 or 2.5 should upgrade to the longer I beam. Bruce also now offers a new Solid aluminum Mounting Plate and Joint (we call it the Gooseneck). they replace the Carbon Fiber versions. |
Analogluvr Bruce' pricing is consistent with his other products. he has never been part of Audiophile Markup strategies you see elsewhere. Personally I don't consider $5000 US, without a pump cheap ? But, if it was being sold in Europe, I am pretty sure it would be selling with a 2 -3 times markup on top. bdp24 Bdp24 Hi Eric. Its not really my assertion. Its the way the arm was designed to run from its maker. My personal experience in running the vinyl rig alongside Master Tape Dubs (running 10 seconds behind) and switching between them helped confirm it for me. My Studer would out perform my vinyl when I first got it. Now the Studer is in need of hot rodding, if I was so inclined as my Vinyl Rig matches it or (better) as it can be tuned. This made me stop looking for tapes. I use the Studer now with the tapes I did buy as a reference point. Regarding cart compliances, all ET 2.0, 2.5 I beams come with either a single, double, or (triple) leaf spring to deal with different compliance cartridges. The leaf spring by design isolates the counter weights from the air bearing spindle. High compliance - single leaf spring, and so on. Most of us use the double leaf spring on our I Beams. If my stocks were doing better 8^((( , and our dollar exchange wasn't so bad, (everyone sells in US dollars), I would maybe have some cash to look at the decca next as a cartridge. So forget that and I will just continue to plod through my music library. |
@ct0517, I attributed the "The best bass comes when the tonearm is setup for the highest vertical inertia" statement to you. Does your "It's not really my assertion" statement mean that it is actually that of Bruce Thigpen in regard to his ET arm specifically (but not necessarily universally)? Regarding the price of the London cartridges, the Super Gold Mk.7 (line contact stylus) is around US$1500, a little more with the Decapod mount. When I got a Decca the second time (in the early 90's, the first time being in '73), its' North American distribution was being handled by a Canadian company. I would say that would have been a good time for a Canadian to have bought one, but the Londons are definitely an improvement on the Deccas, well worth the difference in price between the two. |
@whart what size counterweight are you using with the Kuzma Airline currently, and where does its position lie on the rod in respect to the air bearing? Interested in your findings. ********** Eric - my and other owners findings confirm this; the actual assertion comes from Mr. Physics. 8^0 The Et2 owners manual is clear that it is ideal for setup to go to the highest number on the I Beam - the end of it. ET2 owners know what this implies. Will illustrating with an analogy help ? $1500 us is now $2000 Cdn plus customs/duties. I don’t mean any disrespect by this, but Americans don’t seem to have an idea the plight their dollar is having on the rest of us. |
Just want to second all that Chris has said re highest vertical inertia based on my experiences. As Chris may recall, early on in the history of his thread I mentioned that a few years previously I had constructed a long I beam fashioned from balsa wood. Due to the, not exactly state of the art, ways that I had figured out to attach the I beam to the bearing tube it was not a permanent tweak. However, the experiment showed me that there were sonic benefits in doing what he described; particularly in the bass. Frankly, at the time the notion of “highest vertical mass” was not what drove me to try it. It was simply something that seemed logical to try. One of the reasons that I love this arm is that it invites experimentation and I make most setup adjustments based on what I hear with the “theory” secondary. There is a symmetry to the visual impression that the arm demonstrates with the longer I beam that (not meaning to get too Zen about it) seemed natural. Maybe I just got lucky. I recently got two of Bruce’s new and longer I beams each of a different spring compliance. |
Thanks for the confirmation Frogman. Eric - I don't want you or anyone else to misunderstand my US Cdn dollar comment. So let me add something. Looking at myself, I have discovered I am the type of individual, that when a good deal appears - the cash flows - its too hard for me to resist. Good deals rarely happen so when they do - if my instinct says so - I pounce on them. Its never been about can I afford to buy item X at the current price. It's all about - if it a smokin' deal. With the current environment - dollar exchange - there are no deals for Canadians - IMO . Remember also Dealers like to "tack" on an extra dollar exchange value, onto products as well, above their markup. It is what it is. To think my main speakers and Studer were purchased from the US when the Cdn dollar was worth more than US one. Cheers |
@ct0517 - Chris- (or so i gathered), here's a photo of the back end of the arm as set up. Counterweight is the stock part: https://thevinylpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/DSCF0778.jpg |
I never even knew that ET was literally just up the road from me, less than a 2 hour drive in all honesty. Interesting indeed. In fact the wealth of information I have gathered from this thread makes me glad I started it even though it did have a different slant to it upon conception. Thanks to all so far. |
@whart I doubt the arm design has changed. See what Franc says. Myself, I would be tempted to remove your counterweight and bring into a machinist. He can make up new counterweights for you using the thread pattern the rod uses and in whatever material you like to match your arm. i can't see the cost been alot and the reason I mention it. You could start by having him make something that will work. Then if the difference is dramatic, have counterweights made in the material you prefer. From the looks and angle of the picture it looks you are giving up 15 -20 % leverage (physics) If its a cartridge you are going to keep on there for the long term its worth pursuing. With vinyl rigs I have always found that it is the attention to the small details that make big differences. |
@ct0517 - thank you. The FAQ on Franc’s site talks about an optional lighter counterweight. The Airtight Supreme is going to get rebuilt very soon, and I may also try a couple other cartridges, but I guess what you are suggesting is what- smaller lighter weight to go further back on that rod further away from the headshell? My bet is Franc could probably supply those without much trouble, but yeah, there are a couple of pretty good people here who rebuild vintage bikes, do basic mechanical work, so getting it done isn’t a problem, knowing exactly what to ask for is my challenge. Or, re-reading, it is a materials issue, not just a weight/balance issue? |
@whart you can take your counterweight as is into a Home Depot right now and go to the bolts section. they have a rack with bolts sticking out. See which of the bolts it threads into. Coming from Europe it will be metric. That gives you the thread pattern information. Then you can pick up a few nuts fatter and skinnier with that thread pattern and use those to test with. Use as many as needed to get it to the end of the rod. Once the number of bolts required is known - take them into the machinists/bike people and see if they can make you up one nut in that weight and thread pattern. DIY |
My knowledge of physics is rather limited, so let me ask those of you who finished high school (;-) if the following is correct: To achieve higher moment-of-inertia (same as mass?) in the vertical plane, the mass of a counterweight should be located as near as possible to the line described by the arm tube running through the arm’s bearings. In other words, extending left and right of that line in the lateral (horizontal) plane as little as possible, i.e. as close as possible to the arm's bearings laterally. The opposite of that is the Groovetracer counterweight made for Rega arms, which is in the "longhorn" style---extending a couple of inches to the left and right of the rear stub onto which it is installed. If the above is true, I can envision, say, lead weights being attached to a counterweight above and below the hole running through it for the arm tube’s rear stub, but not to either side of that hole. Correct? |
Bdp24 - My knowledge of physics is rather limited, so let me ask those of you who finished high school (;-) if the following is correct: @bdp24 I never learned Physics in school. It was learned through real life experiences...especially near death ones. 8^0 Picture this - approaching a corner at speed, just after a rain, in a 1996 rear engine 993. ************ I am not sure what you're asking Eric; but I can tell you the Eminent Tech Tonearm has a horizontal inscribed line on the center of the manifold housing. When doing setup the User is supposed to set the record level with this line. Another area where setup error occurs. If you follow the center of the air bearing out to the counterweights one can see that all is in the same line. The I Beam is level with this inscribed line. Now the interesting part. If one loosens the end cap that holds the I Beam and Weights. and tilts it downward a bit - one can tune the bass and give it more heft. You will also be changing the VTF when you do this. Like wise in reverse - tilt it up - and the signal becomes leaner. One can set the sound to ones room depending on the gear. If the room is bass heavy tilt it up a bit and vice versa if the sound is lean. ****************** @whart are you able to loosen a bolt on the Kuzma Airline to tilt the counterweight rod up or down ? |
Moment of Inertia is denoted by I and is the angular analogue of mass. It is defined as the sum of (mass of molecule x distance to pivot squared). This is approximated by an integral (calculus), which is easier to calculate. Thus, for a beam of just sufficient length and just sufficient strength to support the counterweight, the greatest Moment of Inertia I will be obtained by positioning the beam extending from the pivot parallel to an extension of the arm wand. The obvious tradeoff is the amount of material required to position the beam that way. There are other tradeoffs - one wants adjustability and rigidity and resonance control in the beam. Thus a system of a light but rigid tubing (say magnesium), with a lump of tungsten on the end, threading into a nut on the end of the arm, would give you the highest I/m ratio, but may be compromised with respect to resonance. I should try that on the Trans-Fi. |
@ct0517 - another good question which will require a little exploration by me. Just when I thought I knew how to set this thing up after all these years! Your learning is valuable and obviously transferable-- Just literally removed my regular cartridge- have a rebuilt vintage cartridge arriving today as a stop gap (of all things, one of those old Monster Genesis 1000s). So, I can at least mess around with the arm a bit even though the cartridge I'll be using for now is far different in mass (and other things) from the Airtight that is going off for a rebuild. |
https://flic.kr/p/S8x8RW Dunno if this will work but here’s a shot of where the counterweight threaded tube mounts on the back of the air-bearing housing- looks like it is a threaded hole. Period. Thanks, @ct0517 if you click on the image link, and then click the image itself once it opens, it will enlarge. |
@ct0517 , Regarding your post above...that the ET user should set the record height level with the inscribed line in the center of the manifold.....although I’ve owned mine for 30 years, and I set mine up (eyed) for the record height to be in the center of the spindle (looking straight into the spindle), I never remember reading in the manual any indication of that "inscribed line", therefore, I never noticed it. I just uncovered mine just to check and it is correct. (These types of things would be great to read in the manual.) I think it could use a re-write. Thanks for that post. |
Hey slaw, I guess you have your ET on a VPI, not your Townshend Audio Rock 7, ay? ;-) What arm is on your Rock? My Rock Elite (Mk.2) was made with it’s damping trough having an arc diameter appropriate for the shorter-than-usual Townshend Excalibur arm. The Zeta I use with my Rock is very close to the Excalibur in that regard (pivot-to-stylus distance), but has much better bearings (and a great stiff arm tube). The Helius Omega arm has found favour amongst UK owners of the Rock 7. The Silver/Ruby version is especially nice, but at a not-so-nice price ;-) . Townshend Audio and Helius just happen to share the same U.S.A. distributor. Tim de Paravicini also recommends the Omega for use on his EAR Disc Master turntable, the table Audiogon member folkfreak owns (I saw and heard it in his music room last year), though he uses different arms (two) on his. |
An interesting story [possibly apocryphal] about Jack Rabinow, the inventor of the Rabco Linear Tracking Tonearm : While traveling on a train, Jack went to use the restroom and was intrigued by the sign, "Please Do Not Flush While in Station", and when he returned to his seat he began figuring out a way to disable the flushing function of the toilet when the train was standing still. He took some wire coat hangers and twisted them into a device that did exactly that ! I guess that kind of thinking was the same that went into the original Rabco tonearm ! I owned one for a few years and even tweaked it with a balsa wood replacement tonearm but never was happy with its clunky performance. A Revox b795 and a Technics SL-10 were next in line and both were good TTs, but it wasn't until I mated a Souther Linear Tracker to my Garrard 301 TT that I finally realized my "Audio Nirvana". A Lyra "Helikon" cartridge is supremely happy with the arrangement. On very rare occasion the "tonearm/trolley" that holds the cartridge and runs along two parallel quartz rods will hang up and require the rods to be swabbed with alcohol to correct the problem. I see no other TTs in my future --------- . |
This has been a pretty informative thread~ For another story, I knew a guy back in Pittsburgh, where I grew up, who mounted a Vestigal arm (remember those, with the wagging headshell attached to a string which tensioned it?) to a Rabco. In theory, I guess it made sense.* In practice, I don’t remember. This was back in the mid-’70s. _________________ *Or maybe not, given the discussion of vertical inertia here- I don't have the physics knowledge to assess this meaningfully. |
@slaw, I know the Moerch arms are another favorite with Rock owners, which is surprising to me given their relatively low mass characteristics. I’ve seen listings for a Townshend Audio Excalibur II arm, but no pics. I have also heard talk of a replacement for the Rock 7, but that was a couple of years ago. The table itself has been in and out of production a LOT of times over the past 30 or so years. For those who are unfamiliar with the Rock, it is intrinsically unusable with linear tracking arms, owing to the arms’ front-end damping trough, which mandates a pivoted arm. |
@bdp24 , Using my ET with the VPI MKIV, I realized that the spring suspension wasn't optimal. I then modified that table to use Symposium Rollerblock Jrs. That was a definite improvement in SQ but still, I felt the ET needed a solid/stable support. I use to see the ET on SOTA tts all the time. Since I've never owned one, I cannot comment. The one thing I've learned over the years is, in audio, things aren't always black & white. |
It seems I really started something here which is wonderful. However most of it is way over my head and makes me think I must be missing out big time on my vinyl reproduction. But then I step back take a deep breath and put a record on and think, "well if it gets better than this I am not sure I really need it!" Keep up the banter and information as some of it is sinking in! |
@uberwaltz, It's a great hobby. The idea of the stylus tracing a record exactly as the cutting head makes perfect sense. Yet there are different ways of going about it for the best sound, the least wear on records etc... If you're looking to fall in love, (as I did) years ago, just like @ct0517 mentioned earlier, "LTL", you have that outlet to explore. |
Brooks Berdan was (RIP) my turntable guy, and he loved the ET. He was first mounting it on the Oracle (a table for which he came up with a mod, which Oracle themselves eventually incorporated), and later the VPI's, particularly the TNT. The arm likes a high mass platform, which VPI's of course are. He was also a Versa Dynamics dealer, but that linear tracking arm/table was a LOT more money. |
analogluvr analogluvr et al Taken from Stereophile data. Now taken from the Brooks Berdan website "Eminent Technology was established in 1983 to create innovative products in the audio field. Eminent Technology's first product was a air bearing straight line tracking tonearm for phonograph playback. This was the first implementation of a captured air bearing for tonearm use. Eminent Technology's second product, dubbed the ET-2, was a more advanced version of the captured air bearing tonearm concept and it went on to become the most successful selling high-end tonearm." ********* Sales Strategy To those that read between the lines - summarized above is the pricing and the marketing strategy that made it the most successful. IMO - This sales strategy was not about putting out 25 pieces and charging the highest audiophile pricing like is done with some of todays products. This was about bringing this technology to everyone. To help achieve this the sales strategy placed the tonearm as an option on the most popular tables of the day. Now owners pass on, and inheritors put these arms up for sale. One reason they come up on ebay. If one comes up on Ebay ask the seller what PSI the arm was set up for. It can run on 3 psi and the early ones partnered on SOTA, Oracle, VPI tables were probably these versions; unless the previous owners had a higher pressure manifold put on. Bruce Thigpen also customized each manifold PSI setting based on customer needs, for those tonearms sold that were sold individually. We have discussed how to determine what PSI the ET2 manifold/air bearing has been set for on the ET2 Tonearm Owners thread. (in the case of someone buying one used on the market) *********** Frigid temps here again today Uberwaltz - shaping up for a Digital afternoon warmup and then bring in the heavy vinyl artillery. |
Harold in the barrel and Terry 9. I am also a happy owner of Vic's Terminator and Salvation with all of his modifications. In addition, I purchased a machined aluminum arm mount from Owen Young (Dark lantern) and will receive a graphite wand from Andrey tomorrow. I am not interested in the debate of linear versus pivot but I am very interested in the modifications you have made that improve performance Terminator/Salvation. I got the impression you two were going to take your further discussion regarding Terminator/Salvation off line. If you do not mind I would like to participate in that discussion. Thanks Steve Gunther |
sgunther et al who use the Terminator: The most knowledgeable guy I know as regards the Terminator is Dave Garretson. He devised a novel way to reduce drag of the wiring on the movement of the arm and he also manufactured a novel arm wand with adjustable effective mass and reduced resonance. All this was done under the aegis of Vic. Perhaps you know all this. Dave is a member here. |
