Cwlondon, good eye. I just went through the posts and verified what you point out. The writing looks similar too. If it's the same person, using the same computer, Audiogon would see the same IP address for 6 or more members. Maybe they don't have time to police the forums on that level. Then again, the company behind the product advertises on this site, so maybe they don't care.
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A similar phenomena happened a year ago in this forum: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1246375714 An interesting comment was made by someone in that thread: 07-31-09: Jp1208 |
I only met Louis Motek from Lessloss three days ago @ an audio Friends home along with 3 other guys from our audio club. We also had a reviewer there as well from Stereo Times. We got to listen to the Lessloss signature power cords and the Blackbody. Both of these products worked very well. My review is below mainly about the Blackbody. Lessloss does not deserve the bashing above. Instead they should be commended for paving the way for us to get closer to the sound of live music. We first put in 6 signature power cords. 1 on the Meridian 861-preamp 1 on the Marantz UD 9004-source 2 on the Vacuum State mono tube amps 2 on the sub portion of the Avantgarde Duo's This was a very large change. This went from a very hard to listen to system to very smooth and open. But the problem was the only good power cables in the set up were the Virtual Dynamics Master power cables on Source and the Avantgarde subs. All other power cables were just better than stock power cables. This left little time to spend quality time with the Blackbody. But we put just one Blackbody on the source and immediately there was an obvious change in the sound that everybody could easily hear. The depth in sound stage and ambient information stood out for me. But something was not quite right maybe a little brighter and thinner. I believe that maybe it started to reveal other issues in the system. I do know there is a ton of other equipment in this system with all the automation and theater gear. The dedicated lines are not hooked up yet. Still through all this I heard great potential but the evening ended. I do wish we had more time to figure the issues out. The good news was Louis agreed to bring the Lessloss Blackbody to my home for us to play with the next day. The next day we had decent time to listen to some music and the Blackbody. My system is tweaked out to the max and is very revealing of any change. First we put 1 Blackbody 4 inches away facing the side of the MBL 1621 Transport. I was not prepared for this change and it was within just the first few seconds of listening. The best way that I could describe the sound was the same if you ever listen to your system late at knight as apposed to the middle of the day. Just cleaner with more sense of space. We then put a second one facing the other side of the MBL 1621 Transport. A bit more of that same quality came through. We then added two more 1 each facing the side of the Mark Levinson No33 mono amps. I had my mind set thinking it was going to get brighter and more detailed. But the sound just filled out more with a more relaxed presentation. What I mean is the quite spots between notes filled in with ambient information and just gave me a better sense of the space the music was recorded in. Next we put two more one on top of each speaker facing down right where the voice coil of the top mid range would be. This was the largest improvement yet, thou this just could have been because it was last. The overall presentation became much more cohesive. The other thing that really stood out was the depth of the sound stage went much deeper than I have ever heard before. The sound was much more 3D. We put a couple more facing the already treated side of the Mark Levinson No33 side of the amps. I noted a little improvement maybe with a little more moving around of these Blackbody boxes i am sure we could have made more improvement . But in my simple system I think six was the magic number. I will eventually get six of these things but business is slow right now. I will probably buy just one at a time as money allows. This was just as big of a change if not larger than any tweak I have done this far. Then again it could be because it was the last tweak that I did. For me in my audio system the money for the Lessloss Blackbody is well worth the investment. Thank you Louis for pioneering the way of audio. |
Lessloss does not deserve the bashing above.Toymanmark, I don't believe anyone is bashing Lessloss here. The only thing that happened is Cwlondon noticed 7 new members came out of the woodwork to give testimony to this product. They have no prior history on Audiogon and/or they've only commented on Lessloss products. I noticed the same thing happened last year. I wouldn't call that bashing. I'd call it observation. |
Mingles, I did reread above and you are right there was not any bashing it just seemed to be headed that way. The Blackbody's made such a big improvement. I just think everyone should be able to listen to these in there own systems. Here is a trusted source I know that sells right here on Audiogon. He just had the Blackbody's in his system. Give Jeff a call or email him at avsolutionsca.com. Mingles, do not worry you will not get sucked into the black hole with these. Just give them a listen. |
The Blackbody is for real. I post very infrequently but you should be able to find comments from me over 5 years back. I admit the cost is steep and since I have a mid level system I am reluctant to go whole hog and buy a number of these products. But even within my financial and system limitations I find it of great value. If I could paraphrase what I think it does I would have to say that it acts as a full spectrum filter for RFI and EMI. I think that it is the transformation of those noise elements that allows you to hear a more natural rendition of the music. If you can afford it and are not concerned about justifying a purchase to a significant other, I would recommend that you try it. In fact if you have a number of audiophile friends or an organized audio group, it might be a good idea to audition one of these baby's as a group. I am sure the collective judgement of a relatively experienced group would be enlightening for all. Al |
"I post very infrequently." Why would anyone with honest intent and unbaised participation in these forums need to defend the number and authenticity of their posts? In my opinion, because they are yet another shill. It's rings a little bit of "I'll be honest with you...or Let's be honest" which of course is the refrain only of people who are not always honest. cwlondon Audio Enthusiast Since 1978 No Agenda |
"CWLONDON",I am afraid I will have to disapoint you. I am not a shill and you may check with Audiogon regarding my email address over the years which precede the appearance of Lessloss. I would also be happy to talk with you if you are interested. Just send me a private email with your number. Also, you may be happy to know that apparently, the LessLoss products will be carried by a vendor in the states. Therefore, you or someone you know may actually be able to hear the Blackbody in action. I simply hold that you should judge for yourself but you should at least audition the product you are trying to knock. |
Aaapers I am not disappointed, and if you are a sincere enthusiast, you have my apology. But to be clear, I have not yet knocked, or indeed even commented on the Blackbody device, as I have no experience with it. For the record, my impression is that in a double blind, AB comparison, the Blackbody would make even a Tice Clock or a Shakti stone look like bargain priced tweaks with state of the art engineering. But that is another matter. What I have commented on, however, is the obvious corruption of this thread by people who are presumably affiliated with the manufacturer. They have appeared to both me and other long time Audiogon participants to have been stuffing the ballot box with glowing reviews of this expensive, and if I were betting in Vegas a spectacularly high margin, audaciously promoted device. As someone who values the enthusiasm, intelligence and generally high integrity of this forum, I do not react well to thinly veiled infomercials. It is not only unfair to people who are seeking honest advice, but worse, it is arrogant and condescending. Regards, cwlondon |
Cwlondon, It is also unfair when you discover a product that you do not share your findings with others. Especially one that makes such a large impact on your system. As to what it costs to build I can not speak. But for the retail price I found the Blackbody to be an excellent bargain for what it brought to my system. You should judge for yourself and there is a good chance you may be making your own infomercial. For the record I just met Louis less than two weeks ago. |
Toymanmark I am not being unfair. If you or anyone else has purchased and find value in the Blackbody, then great! I think that is wonderful and wish you listening pleasure and happiness with as many as you can afford to purchase. Everyone in this forum is free to make that determination for any of their components or "tweaks" - indeed, one could argue that is the main purpose of the Audiogon forum. But I have not participated in this thread because I have listened to the Blackbody or really even care about whether or not this device really works, if it is a high priced placebo (my impression), or the worst of the worst in overpriced, snake oil quackery (a possibility). No, I only continue to participate in this thread, because I care about the integrity of the Audiogon forum. Because in my opinion it is generally a great community of enthusiasts who are willing to help others interested in our hobby. And because I care about this Audiogon community, I dont like to see threads which are obviously corrupt, where dealers or manufacturers make up posts, fail to disclose their commercial affiliations, stuff (or have their friends or affiliates stuff) the ballot box, or masquerade as friendly, helpful audiophiles with no commercial agenda when in fact they are really just shamelesly promoting their products. Worse, when they do this sloppily in such a way as to arouse suspicion from multiple participants, because not only is it dishonest, but it is arrogant and offensive, and exacerbates what might already be a rip off. PT Barnum said "there is a sucker born every minute" which means he might have been a successful manufacturer of cables or tweaks. For the record, I have been buying and experimenting for cables and tweaks for about 30 years now, or since I was a freshman in high school, where I used the proceeds of mowing lawns and delivering newspapers to buy my first pair of Magneplanars, Hafler amps and a Kenwood KD 500, which was tweaked and modified with an SME III arm, a Grado signature cartridge, an Orsonics record clamp, anti resonant putty stuck to the underside of the platter, and one of the first sorbathane accessory mats. So I am not being stubbornly scientific in my objections here. Again, I hope you are being sincere and if so, I wish you the best with multiple Blackbodys. For you or anyone who finds them useful, I bet they would be equally helpful with all of your televisions and home theatre equipment, your car stereo, and if used in the kitchen, would probably also improve the taste of your food and wine. Whatever the case, I would like to thank everyone in this thread who takes time from their day(s) to be an honest, non professional audio enthusiast, who tries to help inform others, help beginners get started, and advance our hobby with no professional bias or affiliations. Regards, |
At this point, any time an audio manufacturer claims to be run by a "physicist", as does Lessloss, I know somebody is trying to separate me from as much of money as possible. I have owned Lessloss interconnects and a Synergistic Research power conditioner. Both were mediocre at best. And both companies are run by "physicists". I have yet to find an academic paper authored by any of the physicists who run Lessloss, Synergistic Research, or Bybee. I am also still looking for a reference to "quantum tunneling" (as performed by Synergistic Research) in Richard Feynman's books and lectures on quantum mechanics. |
Mcondon, I tend to agree with you about the flimsy nature of the scientific basis for these products. I read the Lessloss description of the Blackbodies and was thoroughly unimpressed. I can see how the technological nature of the discussion would prove impressive to many audiophiles. A lot of conceptualization with little evidence that an audible change would result. A half hour of intense listening to Blackbodies in and out of a system convinced me I wasn't going to spend any more time on them. Even if they did *something* it was so insipid that it wouldn't be worth my time. One can get a far greater benefit by swapping a pair of interconnects, imo. I am not anti-tweak in my perspective, but I demand that a product pass what I call my Law of Efficacy; it has to make a significant, immediate, easily discernible, repeatable difference - to the casual listener as well as the audiophile. One "tweak" which has consistently passed the Law of Efficacy is treatment of CDs. Though there is debate over the proposed benefit from a technological/scientific standpoint, the result audibly is clear, and so I treat every disc. The second you think, "Well, there MAY be a difference," or "... I don't care for the sound, but I'll have to let it break in for a few weeks," or "... wait, let's try placing them here (after the third time)," the product is unworthy of consideration regardless of price. That is, if your goal is to eschew marginal improvements in favor of major improvements to the rig. The ART system demoed for me at RMAF the and Blackbodies both failed such simple testing. I wrote "nearly" instead of "clearly" as I have not used every tweak out there and there is a (perhaps remote) possibility that some technologically driven tweak guru has developed a seriously beneficial product. I try to base my conclusions on products I have heard versus those which I think cannot be beneficial, that precludes making a universal statement about them all being ineffectual. |
I enjoy very much trying audio tweaks, lets face it, some of them work and add to the experience, and it's fun to "play" with it! Heck, with some of the audio gear costing so much money, where is the harm in having some fun and maybe improving your enjoyment without spending a fortune! That said, when it comes to the blackbody, I purchased two of them......and this was not an inexpensive tweak, so I expected some bang for my buck. To be honest, I moved them around, tried placing them in different positions, and just could not feel comfortable about keeping them. I think they do something, and probably more or less of something depending on the system, but, they were not worthy of being kept in my system! If others have had positive results with them, all the power to you and enjoy! |
Here’s the science of it, in an alternate scientific path. The devices in the article have been proven to be functional by 6 different organizations, including NASA (repeatedly!), and the Chinese have confirmed it’s function in space. FYI, just so you know, the Chinese have taken this so seriously, they are moving to dominate space, period. Ie, the half trillion dollar level of pressure over the next few (3-5) years. It’s true. Start looking. The space race is on. Hard core, full bore. Tools that are functional have become available. Enabling has become real. Land Ho! (Just in case you’ve been sleeping. The vast number of humans are) Mars in 20-40 days, no notable (spacecraft) mass restrictions. Pluto in less than 200 days, in the same spacecraft. 300k-400k/km/h and higher, kinda thing. Looks very probable. Thorium reactor, a couple of megawatts for the drive.... and you’re off....(I can't imagine micro meteorite impacts at those speeds!) The article incidentally provides scientific connection to the borderline 100% reality of the function of the Blackbody device, via explaining the reality of the devices in the article. The proposed EM drive. It involves, unruh radiation, blackbody radiation effects, and the quantitization of inertia. https://arxiv.org/pdf/1604.03449.pdf I’m not talking about the efficacy of such things in audio systems, just the science. The efficacy is a personal thing, a personal choice and understanding. The science is looking to be very very real. |