James,I have an Avalon Ascent mk-2,and am running one Rel Stentor,coming in at 25hz.It did take a long time,but they integrate absolutely perfectly.NO seams!
As to your room,and mini issue.Yes,a small floorstander,like a Kharma 3.2,or possibly a Verity product,could do superbly.It's up to your commitment.I know your ARE committed,anyway!I know a fellow(actually a friend of my pal,though I have met him)who is now a mainstream reviewer(actually a pretty good one).He used to have a large dedicated room,with a large,complex system.He loved it.Well,he went through a nasty divorce(poor guy),and is now in a small living space.Small room,but he's a fanatic.He really knows his stuff,and has a HUGE LP collection.What he did,and very successfully,was mount the JM Labs Be Mini monitors on a stand that he had custom made(I don't know why he didn't like the normal stand).He then added a small sub(the Audio Physic,I forget which model,but it sells for about two "thou").He is ECSTATIC with the current performance.He has been able to integrate the sub perfectly.Trust me,he knows what he's doing,and all my friends who have heard the set-up comply.Actually he now likes the current system better than the old one.So,it can be done,for sure.Technology has given us a lift,if we chose to use it correctly.
Best!! |
I do like the Vac and it was on my short list when I was looking to change amps but even though it is very good, I just would not trade my Lamm for the Vac. |
Guys, you are forgeting one very important amplifier that competes head to head with the ML2.1 - the VAC Phi Beta 110. In some ways, I feel that the VAC is even better then the Lamm. Both of these designs offer out-of-this-world sonics.
Has anyone here compared the two? |
"Have any of you guys rolled the 6N6P=E182CC with a bendix 6900, or other 6119/5687 variant?" I haven't. Everyone I have talked to who are knowledgeable in tubes seem to think that the only tube to benefit is the 12AX7 as it is the first tube seen by the signal. |
20x40 room, wow, thats a large room. I remember seeing the Ephiphany speakers at Home Entertainment show here in NYC a year or two ago. The room was packed with people, so I really didn't get a chance to hear them because of the crowd, but they were beautiful speakers for sure.
I was checking out Onebgyn's room too, very nice indeed. What's this about a new ML3 - 30 watts for $135k? The Fed better keep raising interest rates because inflation is definately showing its face. :)
My room size is quite small, my listening space is 12'x12' so it's nearfield listening for me. I'm very limited to my room size for speakers.
I wonder if there are other speakers I should consider given the small room size? I've always been curious about a pair of Quads, but I just don't have the space. Monitors and a sub - I'm very skeptical about subwoofers and how they integrate. Monitors with no sub - why not just go with small floor standers? Any thoughts for a small room? |
Have any of you guys rolled the 6N6P=E182CC with a bendix 6900, or other 6119/5687 variant? |
Onebgyn, I bought the ML2 for exact reason you stated. I have also been told the ML2 is a bit better, and on top of it, a bit less $$$. I have heard the Dartzeel at the recent T H E show on the VR9's, and thought it was nice, the bass was not well defined, and the soundstage was not right. I understand it was SHOW conditions, but, hey SS is NOT SET. I have 12 tweeters, and 12 mid bass in my new speakers. I hope I will find my Nirvana, as well. Thanks for the feedback.
Dmailer, I talked to you before I bought my Reimers, and yes, they are real good speakers, I feel they are a bit tougher to drive than my present Epiphany's. My room is pretty large, almost 20 x 40, and if yours is much smaller, these amps should probably work for you. Good luck my friends.
Steve |
Onobgyn,I'm happy you've found audio bliss!Seldom done,IMO!Hey,let's not get too excited about things Lamm.We haven't heard the Japanese Audio Note mono blocks (at least I have not).Therse babies go for 250K!!Hmm!Can you spare some dough?
James,REALLY,REALLY happy for you!!You have a lot of fun listening in front of you.
BTW--The Lamms won't make an appearance until I sell my home,in a few brief years.My kids are grown,but I still have to unload my daughter.No rush,she's the love of my life,yet I'll have a cute SET amp,when she goes!Also,I'm kind of smitten by the (once again overpriced,yet indispensible)Kharma Mini Exquisites.Hope I get top dollar,for my house.BTW--due to size it should be an easy sell,to the wife!! |
I as well have some ML2's heading my way to potentially replace my ML1's. I feel my Reimer Teton speakers at 95db should be able to handle the lower powered ML2's. Davidri, I will post my comparative comments in a few weeks after I have them up and running. |
SirSpeedy, I finally got my SOTA Cosmos setup, and I'm just floored how good it sounds. But then again, this is my venture back into vinyl (which I so happily left back in the 80s for the convinence of remote control and 'instance access'). I'm starting out with the Denon DL-103 and I can't imagine moving up from there. But, someday I just might, maybe when my record collection becomes sizable. Anyway, I have it atop a Symposium Ultra platform like yours as well. Exception sound! I'm using the Loricraft record cleaner as well.
So I take it from your post, a pair of ML2s are in your future? You won't regret it, as you well know.
I'm *casually* on a speaker quest as well, but for now the Living Voices are very very good for their price point. I've heard the Kharma 3.2FE, and I was very tempted. But now that I have the ML2s in my system, the Living Voices really hold their own in many ways.
I'm tempted to try the Zu Driud to hear a xover-less single driver with these amps. |
"I am SO smitten by the magic of this amp(not necessarily a Kharma speaker,btw,though they are fine,even with the almost absurd overpricing),that I will most likely be HAPPY to give up all the stunning dynamic inpact,and bass depth(not to mention I have damn good tone color as of now,and a stunning soundstage,yet nothing touches the little Lamm mono blocks,Imo)that I live with now.I MUST own these,some day!!Like that character,in the movie "Close Encounters of The Third Kind",I keep saying-"This means something"!I guess I get it.It only took me 37 hobby years,to figure it out!!!
These amps are SO good,to me,that I have completely rearranged my musical perspective.Everything I've loved over the years,and all audio preconceived notions,of how a system should perform,is now DEFUNCT,by the fact that these amps exist.Obviously they will need a simple set-up,with some potential compromises.I don't care!!Nothing wrong with a nice two way,for a different look(actually,"listen")as compared to my previous full range stuff.BTW-I'm quite aware that these amps kick butt,and can deliver quite a full range sound,"if the correct speakers are chosen".There's the rub!!" Sir Speedy...like you I have been involved in this hobby for ~35 years and have IMO owned just about every high end amp imagineable from solid state to tubes. Prior to the Lamm ML 2.1's I owned the ARC Ref 600 Mk lll's and thought them to be the cat's meow with 31 tubes per amp. I sold them to buy the new replacement Reference 610T. For private reasons the deal soured and I was pissed at this and looked for a suitable replacement. I had heard Vladimir's amps many times at CES and always felt them to be remarkable. I agonized as to whether these 18 wpc SET's could drive my huge X-2's. I made many enquiries including calls to Wilson Audio and each time was reassured that not only would they drive my speakers but would do so with plenty of head room. I bought them as a result and have had them since July 2005. Since then I can say that form my ears and my system I have reached audio nirvana. IMO there is just no amp that is as musical as this one. It brings smiles to my face daily as I scratch my head in awe.I really feel that I have made my last amp purchase. Bear in mind that Vladimir will be releasing his ML 3's 30wpc SET for CES next year which is a 4 piece set of monos at a reported MSRP of $135K. "Oneobgyn, since I have been following your threads, I decided I just gotta hear the ML2 in my system, so, I am buying one, and will have it end of next week, or first part of the following. My speakers are 95DB Epiphany 12/12. I sure hope I feel the same way as you. The Gentleman I am buying from, is getting the Dartzeel. I just love tubes, SET especially. I just hope I get the same results, as you. I will post after receiving. I already have the Telefunken's, both smooth, and ribbed, along with about 10 other pairs of high end 12AX7's. My question is this, have you rlooed any other tbes in the amp." 711smilin... My best advice to you is to get the ML 2's from that gentleman with a no trade back policy because IMO he will truly miss his Lamm amps after listening to the DarTZeel. If you love SET and tubes this amp is the best of the best. Are getting the ML 2 or the ML 2.1? Some feel the ML 2 was a better amp than it's successor. I cannot comment on that As for tube rolling, I also bought circa 1957 NOS Mullard long plate with square getter halo and found them likewise to be excellent, somewhat warmer in the mid range than the Telefunken but not as defined as the Telefunken. I also found the rib plate Telefunken's to be more defined than the smooth plate. I am using circa 1965 NOS Telefunken with rib plate. As for the Lamm amp I have no vested interest in the company but you can find my testimonial to these amps on Valdimir's webpage.If you love music these amps are the goods and your speakers at 95 Db should be fine as mine too are 95 Db efficient with their 15" drivers. |
Oneobgyn, since I have been following your threads, I decided I just gotta hear the ML2 in my system, so, I am buying one, and will have it end of next week, or first part of the following. My speakers are 95DB Epiphany 12/12. I sure hope I feel the same way as you. The Gentleman I am buying from, is getting the Dartzeel. I just love tubes, SET especially. I just hope I get the same results, as you. I will post after receiving. I already have the Telefunken's, both smooth, and ribbed, along with about 10 other pairs of high end 12AX7's. My question is this, have you rlooed any other tbes in the amp.
Thanks in advance
Steve |
I have a different type of system,yet one that is incredibly musical,to me.Rowland modded two chassis 8t amp(switch mode PS in second chassis,taking the place of battery,and even quieter),driving fairly large Avalon speakers,with a REL Stentor sub(coming in at 25 hz).I cannot be happier with my sound,and have owned a ton of stuff.Speakers are quite sensitive,and demand little of this superb amp.So sonically it is really quite effortless.As good a solid state based set-up as I've heard,and to me, at least as good as the high powered tube stuff,as well,though my phono stage is tubed,thank God!
Now for the meat of my post.Though I have friends owning superb high power push/pull tubed designs,all driving superb systems,I am still confident that my set-up remains at the very least,as musical as those systems(almost all my stuff is heavily modded).Actually I prefer my own type of presentation,in my room.EXCEPT---I have always prided myself as NOT being a rationalizer,in this fun hobby.It's hard to admit to something being better,when one has spent their own dollars.Well to be candid,and I only mentioned the info,in the first paragraph to lend some gravity to the following,which is-------I have been exposed to the Lamm 18 watt mono "treasures" on quite a few occassions.Driving Kharma 3.2's,as well as midi Exquisites.I have heard them driving a few other efficient designs,as well.I've also heard the 90 watters,on the same speakers.Though superb(remember this is only my opinion,but I own NONE of this stuff,yet that "Gestalt" business clearly stands out to me,and I've been at this hobby about 37 years)it is clearly the smaller wattage amp that is the "Dream Catcher",when partnering a really good match in speakers.So good,that the business of "does it go low enough,or crack plaster,or would it sound great on an MTV type rig" flies completely out the window.Actually,it's jet propelled out the window!!Glass,frame and all!
I personally think the adding of a sub,if mated with a speaker like the 3.2(I have heard the Kharma sub,on a few occassions)ruins the magic of this amp/speaker combo.That "gestalt" thing again!!
I am SO smitten by the magic of this amp(not necessarily a Kharma speaker,btw,though they are fine,even with the almost absurd overpricing),that I will most likely be HAPPY to give up all the stunning dynamic inpact,and bass depth(not to mention I have damn good tone color as of now,and a stunning soundstage,yet nothing touches the little Lamm mono blocks,Imo)that I live with now.I MUST own these,some day!!Like that character,in the movie "Close Encounters of The Third Kind",I keep saying-"This means something"!I guess I get it.It only took me 37 hobby years,to figure it out!!!
These amps are SO good,to me,that I have completely rearranged my musical perspective.Everything I've loved over the years,and all audio preconceived notions,of how a system should perform,is now DEFUNCT,by the fact that these amps exist.Obviously they will need a simple set-up,with some potential compromises.I don't care!!Nothing wrong with a nice two way,for a different look(actually,"listen")as compared to my previous full range stuff.BTW-I'm quite aware that these amps kick butt,and can deliver quite a full range sound,"if the correct speakers are chosen".There's the rub!!
Best to all!! |
The JL-2 is a completely different beast than the Lamm. My very close friend has JL-2's. I have heard them and find them excellent but in a different sort of way than the ML 2.1.
I would compare the JL-2 to my last amp--Audio Research Reference 600 Mk lll's |
If you have the opportunity to audition the Convergent Audio Technologies JL-2 amplifer (100 Watts, Class A, Triode), I would do so. Along with the LAMMs, among the best. |
Interesting
I just bought circa 1965 NOS Telefunken ECC 83 rib plates and I was blown away as to how much better the ML 2.1 sounds as compared to the 12AX7 tubes supplied by Vladimir. Mine were Sylvania.
I did research on the tubes and everyone recommended the rib plate vs the smooth plate
I also managed to buy circa 1957 NOS Mullard 12AX7 long plate with square getter halo. I find these to be warmer than the Telefunken but not quite as detailed |
|
"but once I got the correct input tube in place" I am curious as to which input tubes you switched to |
I recently got the ML2s (predecessor of the 2.1s) and am still in the "jaw dropping" stage - am an experienced SET listener (300B and 2A3 amps in particular), but once I got the correct input tube in place, the ML2s are redefining my system's capabilities - still have the "lit from within" quality of lower-power SETs, but with superb extension at frequency extremes, detail and propulsion - the music is projected into the room with a tonal density I've never before encountered. This is in the context of 104dB horns with powered subs. Certainly, the ML1.1s would be overkill in a high-sensitivity system such as this...YMMV. |
I own the ML1.1s, have not had the chance to hear the ML2 or 2.1 at any length. The ML1.1 is about as good as you can get with push-pull--an extremely natural, non-electronic sounding amplifier. While I could probably be seduced by the 2s, they would not do as well in my system because my speakers are 90db sensitivity and I listen to a lot of Mahler and other power classical music. My understanding from those that know is that unless you have VERY sensitive speakers you will only be scratching the surface of what the ML2s have to offer and you might be better off with the additional power offered by the ML1.1s. You may not get quite that same purity of sound you would get from the single-ended amplifier, but it is very close. If you do have sensitive enough speakers, though, you should go for the ML2 or 2.1, as otherwise you'll probably obsess over it!
The only other amps I would suggest you listen to that are in the same league musically are from Jadis (I'd suggest their single-ended models, or else the JA 30 or JA80), which might be more reasonably priced in France, or else the Audio Aero Prestige monoblocks, 40 watts of single-ended power that sounds drop-dead gorgeous. The predecessor to the Audio Aero monos, from Audio Matiere/Audio Sculpture (can't remember the name, it wasn't the Equilibre), were possibly the best amps I've ever heard, along with the crazy expensive Siltech amps. |
I have the ML 2.1 and I can honestly say that of all of the amps I have ever owned none have been as musical as this amp. I toyed with the idea of the ML 1.1 only because I thought that more watts would drive my X-2 Alexandrias with more ease. How could only 18 wpc drive the 15" drivers in my speakers? I must say that I continue to be amazed at how good the ML 2.1 really is. I can play my speakers at ear bleeding levels without making the amps clip. As far as reproduction of music the ML 2.1 is as good as it gets. It will be your last amp purchase. |
The ML2 is very difficult to surpass. I haven't heard anything that comes close IMHO. I cannot speak about the other ML1.1 amp.
If you get a chance you should really shoot for higher sensitivity speakers. I've heard the Kharma 3.2 and they were very very nice. I think the Living Voice has a little more in terms of lower end dynamics. I cannot imagine what the true high sensitivity crowd enjoys.
The ML2 really shines when you can appreciate the dynamic energy that can be released in higher sensitvitiy speakers. I have not heard this kind of energy release in any amplifier solid state or tube. Now combined with the crystal clear signal that carries infinate ease of delivery and drive. I think this is the 'natural sound' you are referring to, which is really hard to describe unless you've heard it in person. I think you would search long and hard to find it regarless of price. Price really doesn't enter the picture here. My senese is this type of 'geshtalt' of music reproduction is not in the 'High End' or rather 'HiFi' type of audiophile sound. But I am highly biased.
Anyone have any further thoughts? |
