Jazz for aficionados
I'll finish up with one from MY side of town!;) Hilario Duran & his Latin Jazz Big Band - From The Heart (feat. my all-time favorite horn player; Maestro Paquito D'Rivera!) https://youtu.be/Z-KxN-g-Wnw https://youtu.be/cdlJy34vgOU https://youtu.be/pFb7sN5gke4 |
Chazro, I have both artists, here's Lew Tabackin "Pyramid", that is one beautiful tune; [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTp9mjI04kM[/url] I also have Toshiko Akiyoshi, "Desert Lady/ Fantasy;" [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JvUQeelTwc[/url] I would like for you and Jafant to compare these tunes with what you have by them. Enjoy the music. |
The movie was a mess, but the soundtrack is great! Kansas City https://youtu.be/Em_o69_cZng?list=PLA14E2CCB19AEBA3B https://youtu.be/SNEJs1YN8bU?list=PLA14E2CCB19AEBA3B |
Since we're talkin' 'must-haves', here's one of mine. One of the great Big Band recordings; The Toshiko Akiyoshi/Lew Tabakin Big Band - Long Yellow Road https://youtu.be/3II64EHzMqg https://youtu.be/0WrZbQIYt3U https://youtu.be/ppi8DbFyd30 I first heard this in '75, I was 22 yrs old. It sounds as fresh today as it did than! |
| Post removed |
Jafant, I have not recommended any big band or swing, and there is a reason for that. I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record. If I don't have them in my collection, how can I review them? If someone want's to know everything there is to know about jazz, buy an encyclopedia. If someone wants to play jazz, hire a music teacher; or as someone suggested "Go to "you tube" and learn how to play like Miles in six easy lessons". Enjoy the music. |
frogman, I never try to flatter anyone, I say what I believe, no more, no less. I’ve about worn out my "Cuban Fire" LP , played it hundreds of times, was going to mention that Stan was so far ahead in Latin music it was remarkable , but did not want to sound like I was trying to flatter you. Amazes me that people think "BV Social Club " was the Columbus of Cuban music . Also loved the way Stan gave due credit to his arrangers .not that common . |
Schubert, not too sure about the saintly part, but thanks for the kind words. The point you make about the connection between the language of a culture and its music has always been one of the most fascinating things in all of musicology for me. I too like Stan Kenton a lot; "Artistry in Rhythm", "Cuban Fire" and others have always been favorites and are true classics. [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YefLht-j7-c[/URL] Regards 😇 |
I like Stan Kenton a lot , he did a lot of glorified Lawrence Wellk stuff to pay the band, but the man was very smart and his best work with the Great Anita O’ Day was a joy. Basie’s "April in Paris" recording is a fave of mine, just straight ahead music, single malt, no chaser. frogman, your command of English is about as good as it gets. I think in religious terms and your patience with us fools is on the Saintly side . Re the article, in Classical its very obvious that the primary difference between French and German music is a function of spoken language . The thought came to me reading the article that the difference between black and white English , esp. back in the day, was enough to be different languages . The advances in understanding the brain in the last decade may well be the greatest leap in the shortest time in the history of Science . |
I feel that big bands have gotten short shrift on this thread. This is probably my favorite of them all; amazing sense of swing, tightness and subtley. The article in my previous post refers to jazz players "trading fours". For anyone who cares, in the first tune of this clip the members of Basie's brass section trade fours. What a band! Check out the interaction between Basie and Sonny Payne (drums) in the opening tune; amazing. Enjoy. [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TgtU0FKHBzQ[/URL] C'mon in Rok, the water is fine! (I know you're out there) ☺️ |
Came across this article about a most interesting study. In some subtle ways (well, perhaps not so subtle depending on one's point of view) the study touches on some of the issues frequently and hotly debated on this thread. [URL]http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/the_musical_brain_novel_study_of_jazz_players_sho...[/URL] |
Very good Schubert. Truth is that I can be very stubborn; just ask my wife 😊. I assure you that my Dogged Persistence is sincere inasmuch as my idea of the purpose of a thread like this goes. Beyond that, and on a more selfish note, I like words; and, English being a second language, I appreciate an opportunity to improve my use of it. As I grow older and contemplate doing something else with my time, well...who knows? Regards. "Every man prays in his own language and there is no language that God does not understand" - Duke Ellington |
| Post removed |
At almost three years of age, 5000 posts and 1.5 million (!!!) views this thread, in spite of the disagreements, bickering and drama is clearly doing something right. The small number of active participants is, I think, an indication of its potential more than anything else. For that, and as the OP, you should be commended, O-10. I also suspect that a lot of these viewers are "testing the waters" of jazz and are potential aficionados. That is the reason that I feel that threads such as these have a responsibility to offer more than just recommendations of favorite jazz recordings based solely on personal emotional reaction when presented as definitve examples of "the best". I believe that the seriousness of the music demands that the commentary, at least, strive to some sort of standard of integrity as concerns the commentary on the relative merits of artists, the history of the music and any other consideration that might help someone new to the art form develop a frame of reference for appreciating the music. It would be a shame if the thread were to become inactive. With that in mind, I would like to offer some suggestions for guidelines for better and less contentious interaction going forward: 1. Avoid BLANKET statements about the supposed superiority of one genre or time period in the music. It should be clear by now that doing so will only result in vehement disagreement that will only serve to derail productive discussions about the music. We all have preferred genres and time periods in the music and should feel free to express so, but to disrespect another poster's genre or time period preferences will accomplish nothing positive. 2. When making statements about superiority or disagreement, accompany the statements with musical examples and explanations to back up the position. Emotional reaction is simply not enough for declarations of superiority applicable to anyone except the person making the comment. 3. Keep commentary factual and not personal. Calling a musician that someone takes the trouble to post a "noisemaker" is personal. Disagreeing about the musical merit of a musician and saying that the reason are x,y&z, accompanied by musical examples is not personal. 4. Avoid "clickish" interaction. Obviously, it is sometimes appropriate to address individual posters, but to have protracted two-way dialogue is inappropriate; that is what pm is for. Be inclusive. 5. Let's all try and have thicker skins when there is disagreement. Remember that everyone has different interaction and writing styles and we should all strive to be more secure with our opinions. 6. Let's put the often used fallback position that some posters are not sticking to the premise of the OP to rest; as if the mission of the thread was ever to only recommend personal favorites and nothing more. The OP clearly states: "then you will be able to decide whether they (recordings) are worthy of your collection". 7. Whenever possible, let's push our envelope of personal descriptive ability . To say "I like this recording better than that recording" is not a "review". Pie in the sky? Perhaps. But, as I have said many times before, I hope we can do better. Here are two posts that I feel are parricularly relevant right now; one recent, the other almost three years old: *******it is not a shame not knowing something, but to remain in ignorance is. Finally, even if someone chooses that he likes more 'simple' or older forms of music, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as one leaves the window for opportunity for future things to come. **** - Alexatpos ****rok2id 3,000 posts 03-02-2013 5:38pm I am so nutty, that I buy some CDs that I know I won't like NOW, but maybe I will in the future. Also, if it's considered a great or landmark recording, I want to have it. Same with Classical. So one day, if my theory holds, I will be jamming to Coleman and Dolphy etc.... Musical taste does change over time.**** |
Alexatpos very nice clips. I am getting a sense of your musical preferences and I like it. Thanks for sharing. You might like this lesser known guitar player; one of my favorite guitar players who is seldom mentioned: [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2l1qkAmaa8A[/URL] |
O-10, I really wish you would stop with the unfounded criticisms and attacks. Disagreement backed by examples and data is not "negativity". Negativity on the part of Rok and, more recently, you is what may have driven some posters away. What on earth do you mean "I turned this thread political"? You are the one who consistently brings politics to these discussions. I don’t know how else to try and impress upon you what it is that causes problems with our interaction. From my vantage point you continue to want to make statements that are factually incorrect and then not have any disagreement. Then, when there is disagreement you accuse the person disagreeing of being "negative" and hide behind the "it’s subjective" idea. I am sorry to say that even your most recent post about music demonstrates the dichotomies and contradictions in some of what you post. I point these things out not to pick on you or to be negative, but in an effort to keep the thread relevant. You have a wonderful way with imagery and descriptions in some of what you write, I appreciate that. But some of what you write is simply not based on verifiable information and is downright misleading to someone wanting to learn about the art form. Example, and this sort of thing happens regularly: "Sal Salvador was the man before some of the current players". For someone who puts so much stock in having hung out with jazz players, you should know what calling someone "the man" means. Sal Salvador was a very good player; but, "the man"?!. "The man", when he was a contemporary of Jim Hall, Joe Pass, Kenny Burrell and others of a higher stature. If he was "the man", what were the others? If fact, and ironically, Sal Salvador’s biggest legacy is arguably as a jazz educator; something that you seem to have no respect for. Additionally, you criticize "classical people" for the way that they talk about Jazz when by your own admission you never talked to your jazz player friend about music. How do you know? You say you never talked to your friend about music and only about "where to get a good bowl of chili". I could say that this explains a lot, but I prefer to point out that I think it’s time to stop the silly tit-for-tat and try and elevate this thread to something better. So, please, don't just get upset and accuse me of "negativity"; please tell me what I am missing. How is Salvador "the man" compared to these other players or current players? Loved the Pettiford clip; great stuff. Thanks! |
Alex, I liked your posts; Sal Salvador was the man before some of the current guitarists, I liked him. Joe Puma's album had a definite West Coast sound, that's what I was into at that time. Oscar Pettiford is my favorite all time bassist. Mingus is my favorite composer; he has so many boss compositions, but when it comes to just plucking the fiddle, Oscar is my favorite. The albums you posted remind me of when I was just getting into jazz; these cities, like Chicago, were so much different then; I liked to get dressed and stroll Cottage Grove in the evening near the 63rd street EL train, and eyeball beautiful young girls. Here's Oscar Pettiford with "Bohemia After Dark"; Chicago was my "Bohemia After Dark"; that's when the city came alive, the night life rivaled New York. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5EwGijmqKc[/url] Enjoy the music. |
I have few of his albums, just listened them recently, so I decided to post. Not so famous player, I cant remember that anyone mentioned him lately. Great guitarist, imho. This album is from 1956. On vibes is Eddie Costa, another player who had no chance to show all his potential due. The album is called 'Frivolous Sal' from Sal Salvador [url]https://youtu.be/nv62s6bwIsU[/url] [url]https://youtu.be/k5Vj7ZrQCrA[/url] On my previous post I have put album of Herbie Mann and Bobby Jaspar. On that album the guitar is played buy Joe Puma. This next two albums also I like, its very nice music, from 1954.and 1957. On first, Puma is joined by Barry Galbraith. The album is titled 'East coast'. On second album, called simply 'Jazz' from later date, he plays with Bill Evans, Oscar Pettiford and Paul Motian.The sound here is not so great, but the cd editions sounds very good. Hope you will like it [url]https://youtu.be/A7qzEaxzC6M[/url] [url]https://youtu.be/T4sivVnRBmI[/url] |
| Post removed |
Learsfool, Rok has contributed more to this thread than you, Frogman, and Schubert combined; and we could do without your twice a year negative comments. Frogman, this thread was going just fine until you changed it from a musical thread to a political thread; that ran all the best jazz contributors away. While there were not that many of them in the first place, they made good regular contributions; but no way were they going to waste their time and knowledge in a political fight. Learsfool, I grew up with professional jazz musicians from childhood, I hung-out with jazz musicians, one of my friends was a professional jazz musician who could improvise like you wouldn't believe; none of them ever talked music to me; what for? I'm not a musician. When my friend, the professional jazz musician lived with me; our conversations were about his life as a professional jazz musician, or "Where can you get a good bowl of chili" My best friend's brother went to "Julee-ard", and when he practiced on the piano, the next door neighbor came over to watch, after he finished, the neighbor could repeat everything he practiced. Brother went on to get his degree from "Julee-ard", and became a music teacher, while the neighbor became a professional jazz musician who I saw perform frequently, he was hot. The last time my friend heard from his brother, he was somewhere in Spain (hard to locate). If you want to be financially successful, get a degree from "Julee-ard"; but if you want to be a jazz musician, just go out and do it; either you got it or you don't. Miles Davis did not graduate from "Julee-ard", he attended for a hot minute until he found Charles "Yardbird" Parker. When Jazz meets classical, it's real light weight; while it can be good music; it's not deep in the groove from which it originated. Classical people are down right funny when they speak of "jazz improvisation"; they say so many things that they didn't know they said. Enjoy the music. |
Just finally caught up on reading the last week and a half of this thread. Wow. Most of what I would add has already been said by Frogman, Schubert, and Alexatpos. To Rok - the differences here are NOT "irreconcilable." The reason you think they are is that you are stubbornly resistant to educating yourself more on the subject. I think it is very important to reiterate that NO ONE is criticizing your listening choices, or saying you are wrong about what you like listening to. What is objected to is when you attempt to argue about something you clearly have no idea about as if you did, and your refusal to improve your state of ignorance, which is a real shame in someone who loves it like you clearly do. It is simply not possible to argue effectively about something that you do not really know about, and this is painfully obvious to everyone who does know about the subject in question. Everyone who has educated themselves more about music is telling you that their enjoyment of listening has been increased. Not one single person has said that they regret learning more, or that it did not increase their enjoyment. Don't you think, then, that there might be something to it? Frogman has pointed out that all of your heroes, Wynton, etc., most certainly agree that the visceral experience is only a part of the whole. So why are you so resistant to the idea? |
die Phänomenologie des geist; we need to reflect the reasons for our reasons, the goals behind our goals; therefore, the real progress of any person, a given society and humanity is not to be reduced to merely 'technical progress' (tools, means, at any level) but on a more basic level. Progress requires an improving reflection and understanding upon all goals. What are your goals Schubert? |
O-10 , hate to keep picking on you(really), but you need to get off that "geist" stuff. There is little more established in Psychology than people like what they are exposed to most . Jazz and Classical combined are less than 5% of the music sold and if God was"geisting" they’d be 90% . I’m sure the reason I loathe rock is that it came along and killed the Great American Song Book standards on the radio I’d been listening to since, according to my mother, age 3. That I found Classical and Jazz was just plain luck . |
Very good and insightful post, Alexatpos. ****it is not a shame not knowing something, but to remain in ignorance is. Finally, even if someone chooses that he likes more 'simple' or older forms of music, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as one leaves the window for opportunity for future things to come. **** Exactly right. That Jazz Daredevil clip is very funny. Nice to see my pal Scott Kreitzer having a good time with it. I enjoyed the Bobby Jaspar clip. The kind of tune that jazz players love to improvise over with a set of harmonic changes that is both interesting and very comfortable to play over. Jasper is very nice swing tenor player that reminds me a lot of one of my favorite swing players, Zoot Sims; both have a similar approach. Also good to hear Herbie Mann on alto flute for a change. Thanks. [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P2f2smMowT8[/URL] |
Just a couple of words, if I may, and than will post some good music. Personally, jazz music that I currrently like and listen is more or less from 50's and up to year '65. at the most. Sometimes I buy the later published music but its usually from the same protagonists, from previous decades (Miles not included) meaning that their style had not gone thru major changes. Note that I said currently listen. I remember the time when I bought my first pop rock record, I was 9 years old, the record was double red album from the Beatles, compilation of their hits from 1962-1966. Guess it was 4 years later that I bought their 'white' album, listened it couple of times, did not 'dig' it, put it on shelf, and forget about it . Must I said that now I consider the 'white' album as their best ? My point (its been said before ) is that at some moment in time, all art was considered modern. Believe that I don need to point at obvious examples in art, music, film or literature that prove how once, art that was scrutinised, later was considered great. Admit that I find no need to defend the feeling and thought that my rather archaic musical personal taste is the best one, even I admit that I dont listen other music genres suc as (in alphabetical order) hip hop, metal, pop, rave and so on. But at same time, am I aware that years and years ago, I liked hard and bay area rock, liked german psychodelic bends, listened to british prog music, etc, and all that eventually led me to jazz. So, the fact that i dont like 'fusion' music, or some other 'modern' form, or other type of musical expression does not necessarily means that it will remain that way. Also, I believe that is very important to learn about art in general and about art form that we are interested in. Only that way one will be able to understand the hystorical and social origin of process that affects us by forming our personal taste. Guess we are fortunate that couple of professional musicans choosed to participate here, and I am often using that opportunity to try to learn something new, by looking or hearing things from their point of view. Doing it so does not makes me feel threatend or even ashamed because my personal taste might seemed simple, it is not a shame not knowing something, but to remain in ignorance is. Finally, even if someone chooses that he likes more 'simple' or older forms of music, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as one leaves the window for opportunity for future things to come. There is no reason what so ever for anyone to have hard feelings about differences in music that we all like. But, as strange as it may seems, I found out that there are other individuals who obviously have bigger issues with 'modern' music, than as some of 'ours' guys. Note, aldo this page is quite good and educative, I choosed this clip just for fun, not as something that to put more fuel on fire. [url]http://www.openculture.com/2016/01/hear-the-experimental-piano-jazz-album-by-comedian-h-jon-benjamin...[/url] And finaly, some good music, an album from 1957. under the name of Herbie Mann, but I bought it becuse of Bobby Jaspar, from Belgium, who played with many greats, only to die quite young in 1963.Hope you will like it [url]https://youtu.be/otengS4cE3Q[/url] |
Rok, I got sidetracked, but now I'm going through posts. Arturo O' Farrill, Afro Cuban Jazz with a whole lot of soul; "Blues Guaguanco" is smokin, it's all the way live; I can dig it, got to git it. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB52YOghww[/url] "Mox Nix", I know you heard this expression a lot in Germany. This jam takes me back to the past when I put a quarter in the juke box and the hippest jam on the box popped up; Benny Golson in his prime, can you dig it? [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py7URoogRj0[/url] All this mediocre music that Frogman is praising is giving me an upset digestive tract, I can't handle anymore of it; it's time for a brandy (not since last year). Let me see what's "Killer Joe" up to? [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u23Etcb-L9M[/url] "Killer Joe" is too cool for words. 10-4 over and out. |
If bickering will take the joy out of you listening to music it wasn’t about music in the first place. The most brilliant Professor I ever had, which is saying a lot. was a Frenchwomen who was the most eminent scholar in the Philosophy of Social Science in the world . She once said, "If you can’t say it in one sentence you don’t know what you are talking about " . |
@orpheus10, The 'Rap' threads are not about music at all. I think we all know what they are about. Sort of like "Jazz for Aficionados. Sometimes I wonder if it is about the music. The post by Acman3 was just an attempt to make fun of, and show them the stupidity of the whole thread. Good luck with that. ***** What do you think is the solution Rok; I'm totally lost. ***** Now now OP, you are not lost. :) The problem first, then my solution. Problem: This thread is light years away from what it is was supposed to be. Read your initial post again. The atmosphere has become so poisonous and malicious, and in a personal way, that I don't even like it anymore. It has in effect, become an 'Audiophile thread'. No different from all the rest. Solution: As I said in a previous post, irreconcilable differences. There is no common ground. There is Nothing to talk about. To each his own, but for me, I think I'll call it a day, and head for the house. If you run across something that you think, I just have to have, email me. Stop all the bickering. It will eventually take all the joy out of listening to this great music. Cheers |
Chazro, the Maraca clip is fabulous! I can't thank you enough for that. Love how the chamber orchestra weaves in and out of the Jazz and vise versa. Fantastic instrumentalists and improvisers. I have a lot more to say about it and your other clips, but sadly used up my time embroiled in the bullshit. As an aside, and along the lines of the often talked about miracle of how Cubans keep all those old cars running, it is miraculous how great those musicians sound on what are, in many cases, second rate instruments at best. Scary to think what they'll be able to do when things finally do improve for Cubans and they are able to play on really fine instruments. And that violin soloist! Omg, she can play like that and look like that! 😊 |
O-10, as much as I hate saying things like this, I think that what is really going on here is that you are a bitter and angry person, unnecessarily fueling the flames of our little soap opera; as demonstrated by your last post. Here you go again running to Rok for support on a position that has no merit and that will only serve to be controversial and divisive; not to mention misrepresentative of what has been going on. I praised your most recent "old jazz" contributions (Farmer) and here you are making blanket statements about my "knocking" your "old jazz" contributions. I make a recommendation to you of a new artist (Lundy) that you might like who is reminiscent of a new artist that you posted, and here you are claiming that I "knocked" your new artist posts. All this, as if there were something wrong with not liking EVERYTHING that you post; especially when I have been very specific as to why I didn’t like certain ones and, incredibly!, as in the case of your "new jazz" example, you later went on to agree with me. It boggles the mind. Worst of all, to somehow suggest that the fact that I have not participated in other threads (!!!) that you have deemed indicative of some "problem" with new music is an example of some sort of inconsistency on my part is absurd. And top of it all, instead of having the courtesy and cojones of addressing me directly about it, you run to your cohort for support. If all this weren’t so pathetically sophomoric and plain stupid there would be no recourse but to call you an a&&. How pathetic. Obviously, you are not interested in turning a new leaf or, as I have plainly suggested, "having more mature interaction going forward"; too bad. BTW, if you had bothered to take off your blinders to read what was posted in those "other" threads you would have found that there was overwhelming criticism of the OP’s premise, and in the case of #3 (by our own Acman3) it was a parody of #’s 1&2. Your last post was either the ultimate troll or an example of a desperate attempt to find validation by someone who apparently feels very little of it. That you are "totally lost" is obvious; I suggest you look for a solution somewhere other than where you are looking. Once more, here’s to more mature interaction going forward 🍷 |
Rok, under the topic of music, there are 3 threads that don't even discuss music. I really don't know what they're discussing; I'll give you the titles and you can discern it for yourself. 1. When rap came out 30 years ago I thought it was just a fad 2. Why do people who are into rap and hip-hop even want a high-end audio system 3. Should we use ridiculously priced cables to listen to Rap? These three threads are under the topic of music. Is number 1 a philosophical question, or what? Number 2; why don't they take a hip-hop rap survey? Number 3; I wouldn't use ridiculously priced cables to listen to anything. I consider these three threads as an indication to how bad current music sucks. Ok, O-10 seem upset that those clips were ignored. Speaking for myself, the reason is simple, I didn’t want to open yet another can of worms. But if you insist: I will admit that "Smooth Jazz" is not my favorite genre, but I have room for it generally and some of it can be a heck of a lot of fun. But, I find those two examples to not be very good examples of the genre. As much grief as smooth jazz gets from some, the fact is that some smooth jazz artists are terrific musicians and in most ways stick to the spirit of jazz in having a strong sense of spontaneity, improvisation and instrumental ability; not those guys, sorry. I find those two examples to be extremely formulaic and the music sounds as if they stick strictly to a written out or pre-determined template. I would bet you that if you heard them play those tunes live they would sound EXACTLY the same as they do on those clips; not the case with some other musicians in the genre. When I found good "old jazz", Frogman knocked it. When I found "new jazz", Frogman knocked it, but he doesn't have a problem with those three threads. What do you think is the solution Rok; I'm totally lost. |
For some reason Judy Garland reminds me of when St. Louis was really a grand city; that's when we had street-cars, and large 3 story red brick homes on boulevards with grassy areas in the middle that looked like small parks. I spent weekends with a cousin who lived in one of those grand homes. Even today, I never miss "The Wizard od Oz". [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmx1L8G25q4[/url] Enjoy the music. |
Well, THAT was a constructive comment, O-10! Does that mean that you don't want to have discussions? Apparently not. If I am mistaken, tell me what about my previous post is not true. Love Art Farmer, btw. And what, pray tell, would cause you to even consider that I might think that music is too hip or too old considering that at least half of what I have posted here is in that very genre? You do get it right sometimes 😊. Very nice clips! |
