@frogman As requested.. A link to Andy’s very good "Earth + Sky". Unfortunately not the entire album - something of a playlist mix - but you can tell the tracks that are from E+S by the album cover. I hold Andy’s post-Police solo work in high regard. Piece by piece collecting a good bit of that portion of his ’oeuvre’. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28plEPacLZs&list=PL8F0DF9DDF60D2980 Unlike Green Chimneys and Peggy’s Blue Skylight, that are interpretations of music by Monk and Mingus, respectively, the compositions on E+S are Summers own. By the way, I certainly agree with your favorable opinion of the ECM label...as you say, interesting music and typically very well recorded - great sonics. My first experience with ECM was a Ralph Towner LP I borrowed from the local library years ago. Knew nothing about him or the label at the time. Fortuitous. My buying habits lean mainly to CDs but I enjoy looking for good condition, used ECM vinyl. Hope you enjoy Earth + Sky. |
Czarivey, glad you enjoyed those clips. ECM is a fantastic label with some of the best production standards. Amazing catalogue of well recorded and very interesting music. More to come.
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****Strange comments from a Classical player. Remember it the next time you play Mozart, or Beethoven, or Bach, or............ well you get the drift.****
Actually, Rok, it’s not a strange comment at all. It’s a comment heard often among players and would be heard even more often if ALL that classical players were to play were music from one period; one of the reasons for musical diversity in orchestras’ programming. What makes the difference is that orchestras program not just Mozart, Beethoven and Bach, but also Stravinsky, Bartok, Schoengerg, Lutoslowski, Adams.......well, you get the drift.
What perhaps I wasn't clear about and what I meant with ****what are those guys saying that hasn't been said a thousand times before?**** is that it's not just the tune choice but how they are being played. Of course, its always possible to play a very familiar tune and a new and unexpected way. In that sense, Kleiber's Beethoven's 5th is completely different from Klemperer's. |
Rok, you have a very poor memory, SANTANA is not fusion, nor was that intended to represent FUSION, I like Santana, and Shadowfax better than some fusion OK. (or maybe it is fusion, ask Frogman)
Enjoy the music.
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Rok, this is what went out of Scott AFB when the Tsunami hit in the Indian ocean. http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/135288/amc-aircraft-people-support-tsunami-r...I couldn't care less what Mavis Staples is talking about, but it wasn't Katrina, it was the Aftermath in New Orleans. I was stationed at Scott in the reserves as a "loadmaster", I know what a C5A can carry; Scott was 2 hours from New Orleans. Lewis Armstrong International was dry, no problem landing a C5A. This occurred eight months before the "Katrina" disaster. The Indian Ocean is half way around the world from Scott AFB, and New Orleans was two hours flight time from Scott. While the city was flooded, Louis Armstrong International remained dry and able to receive air traffic. C5A's are really huge aircraft, and just one flight complete with food, water, hospital staff, and rescue personnel, plus the ability to coordinate all military resources in that area; would have solved New Orleans problems, and all it took was one phone call from the White House. KATRINA TIMELINE By ThinkProgress on Sep 6, 2005 at 11:53 pm Sunday, August 28 APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD [Times-Picayune] Monday, August 29 — KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE [CNN] 7:30 AM CDT — BUSH ADMINISTRATION NOTIFIED OF THE LEVEE BREACH: The administration finds out that a levee in New Orleans was breached. On this day, 28 “government agencies, from local Louisiana parishes to the White House, [reported that] that New Orleans levees” were breached. [AP] 11:13 AM CDT – WHITE HOUSE CIRCULATES INTERNAL MEMO ABOUT LEVEE BREACH: “Flooding is significant throughout the region and a levee in New Orleans has reportedly been breached sending 6-8 feet of water throughout the 9th ward area of the city.” [AP] 8PM CDT — GOV. BLANCO AGAIN REQUESTS ASSISTANCE FROM BUSH: “Mr. President, we need your help. We need everything you’ve got.” [Newsweek] LATE PM — BUSH GOES TO BED WITHOUT ACTING ON BLANCO’S REQUESTS Tuesday, August 30 U.S.S. BATAAN SITS OFF SHORE, VIRTUALLY UNUSED: “The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore. The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents. But now the Bataan’s hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty.” [Chicago Tribune] Wednesday, August 31 SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: “A 2-year-old girl slept in a pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. ‘We pee on the floor. We are like animals,’ said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. … By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. … At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming.”" [Los Angeles Times, 9/1/05] 3,000 STRANDED AT CONVENTION CENTER WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER: “With 3,000 or more evacuees stranded at the convention center — and with no apparent contingency plan or authority to deal with them — collecting a body was no one’s priority. … Some had been at the convention center since Tuesday morning but had received no food, water or instructions.” [Times-Picayune They remembered all of those resources that were directed out of Scott Air Force Base, Ill, for people half way around the world in the Indian Ocean; but they forgot they had them for the citizens of New Orleans, which was only two hours flight time from Scott. |
*****
But, geez, how many times does a person need to hear those same tunes. What are these guys saying that hasn't been said a thousand times before?
*****
Strange comments from a Classical player. Remember it the next time you play Mozart, or Beethoven, or Bach, or............ well you get the drift.
Cheers |
Ghosthouse and jzzmusician, thanks for the clips. I enjoyed the Andy Summers clips and I always enjoyed his work with The Police. I look forward to more clips from you.
jzzmusician, I love that Herbie Hancock clip. I posted that very clip about two years ago (!); thanks for bringing it back and for keeping the timeline. Two years ago, I seem to recall that the only response it got from the clu......ahem....purists, was a comment about Herbie's shoes. Personally, I dig Bennie Maupin's suspenders the best 😊. Maupin is one of the funkiest saxophone players ever; deserving of more recognition.
I must say that I find it very ironic, but not surprising, that the entire genre "fusion" is being panned by some, yet what is being posted is newer Santana with its cheesy synth sounds and formulaic compositional and production values, and New Age (!!) Shadowfax (!!!!). Seriously? To each his own I guess; no point arguing about it. Importantly, as I knew was the case and contrary to recent assertion, there is much more than zero interest in fusion.
Ray Brown: good jazz players. But, geez, how many times does a person need to hear those same tunes. What are these guys saying that hasn't been said a thousand times before? My definition of (and to quote our resident New Age aficionado) "stereotypical jazz". I am left with the question, why?
1975 next.
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*****
Rok, I want the low down on whatever you've finished listening to.*****
I played Mavis Staples first. It's hard to listen to Jazz while watching the game, thought this one would be easier.
One of the few CDs I have purchased in recent memory that was totally unsatisfactory. I hate it. This woman needs to enter the 21st century. She is still whining about picking cotton. Good grief. Not that she has ever been within 100 miles of a cotton field.
"Down in Mississippi where I was born" a line from the opening track. But, wiki says she was born in Chicago. She is self absorbed. It's all about her. She sings a lot of traditional songs, but she sings them as if they are HER life story. Not the story of a people.
Hard to get into songs that insinuate that Katrina was the fault of white people. I guess primitive uneducated people think white folks have unlimited power. They control nature. I think that's the preserve of The Good Lord. They should be praying The Lord does not send Katrina 2.0 to finish them off.
Well recorded, but the effort was wasted of this claptrap. I recommend this strictly for Kool-Aid drinkers.
Cheers
Sorry for the rant, but I take all things Mississippi personally.
BTW, were any white folks affected by Katrina? I know, Bay St Louis, Mississippi, where Katrina made landfall was completely destroyed. Nothing left. Nothing. No one seems to be aware of that. Guess they didn't whine loud enough.
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You guys are killing me! I've been working 10-12 hours a day for the past couple of months. I come home, land here, listen to music and go to bed. Geez, o10 cost me almost 45 minutes with one post. (Trilok Girtu) Thank you all. I've been listening to all the recent clips; found some new stuff I need to buy and visited some old friends, (Cecil Taylor). Saw these guys at around this time, they started the gig like they'd been rehearsing for days. It was off the charts and the first time I was lucky enough to hear Bill Summers. Herbie Hancock, Spank a Lee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWgrzmF-34Q-- Bob |
Rok, I want the low down on whatever you've finished listening to.
Enjoy the music. |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uy31fe40Rg4&list=RDuy31fe40Rg4#t=370Listen to all the tracks. This is great stuff. Great video and audio. Check Gene Harris at 0:50 on "Things Ain't What They Used To BE". He sits like a choir boy, hands on knees while Morrison is soloing, then he nods his head and then breaks into this big smile. I love that stuff. Cheers |
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Shadowfax:
Liked them both. I think I had some of this on LP back in the day. I used to give all the LPs I was not too fond of to friends when I PCS'd.
The images were not even necessary, the music stood on its own merit.
And you accuse me of living in the past! I had all but forgotten these guys.
Cheers |
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O-10:
Today I Received the Donald Byrd replacement set. much better packing this time. Also the Grant Green / Sonny Clark set, Marvis Staples' "We'll Never Turn Back" that was posted by The Frogman, and Ellington's "Latin America Suite". Will report later.
Cheers |
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During the 70's, there was no "you-tube" to help you decide what records to buy,consequently, you depended on music reviews, or recommendations from other people; the music reviews could explain how I got all these ECM records. I had gotten tired of buying "crappy" records I didn't like by known artists even; it was a real crap shoot, because you couldn't take records back. That's when I began going with what I had heard, or the most consistent artist. Santana was certainly consistent, and sometime he included known jazz artists, like Alice Coltrane, but today I'm more in the mood for something more current by Santana; like "Blues For Salvador". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xxr3-CBams&list=PL5wKk_oSFx1VL0aYDSHiOSOSRtQikam9Y&index=2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVeFsfOwCa8&list=PL5wKk_oSFx1VL0aYDSHiOSOSRtQikam9Y&index=5Santana was a heck of a lot more consistent than jazz at that time; I had spent too much money for saying WTF after the first cut. Enjoy the music. |
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Rok, I forgot, you never met Miles aunt Corine.
Enjoy the music. |
Carlos Santana is one of my favorite artists, and when I mentioned him before, I was trying to establish the mood of the early seventies by naming other artists in different genres who were popular. I know when I visited some of my other friends who were jazz aficionados, they also had the latest "Carlos Santana". Here's another Santana I like a lot; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_YsoCDrnH4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrWqli5cq1EEnjoy the music. |
*****
I don't know what this gal is singing, but I like it.*****
Don't feel bad, she probably doesn't know either.
*****
Rok, who does this remind you of? *****
Bits of a lot of people, but I am too senile to remember who. Nice rap.
I listened to all the posted 'tunes' from everyone. I have decided that,
As Chief of Unwashed Jazz Police, I hereby place all of you under arrest for impersonating Jazz Aficionados.
I am reminded of a scene from the remake of 'Tinker, Tailor, Solider, Spy'. The Soviets capture this British Spy and 'interrogate' him by strapping him in a chair and placing headphones on his head. No beatings, no pulling fingernails, no truth serum, no threats.
When they took the phones off, he told them everything he even thought he knew.
According to the CIA, The KGB did buy a lot of Fusion. Just saying.
Cheers
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Frogman, you've touched my 'weak spot' which is ECM and which is most of my jazz collection. ECM mostly records innovative and creative musicians, but vast portion of my heart leans towards Carla Bley that mostly appears on WATT label which is again part of ECM. Almost all of my personal records of Carla Bley have her signature taken during her live performances
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1974: The genre is really hitting its stride about now. Dave Liebman and Lookout Farm release what is one of the greatest records in the genre. Liebman is probably the most soulful of all the post-Coltrane tenor players. Miles alum as well as of the great band with Elvin Jones in which he was paired with fellow tenor player Steve Grossman. Imo, anyone who doesn't think this is jazz (fused or not) needs professional help (I'm booked up): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=svDy-H0O90MWith Chick Corea and Herbie Hancock dominating the piano scene in the genre, Steve Khun was a somewhat lesser known player; but highly inventive. Steve Swallow on bass and the great Jack DeJohnette on drums. One of the first recordings which would define the label ECM's "house sound": https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PL18yhXvkVdCDkFoebEdbRjFBsyy9riS5L¶ms=OAFIAVgD&v=ngYi7G..."Soul" comes in different flavors and to try to define it strictly based on one's inevitably limited palette and frame of reference is foolish. John Abercrombie is an interesting player in that his music can sound intellectual, but has its own brand of deep soulfulness. Unique guitar sound: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLiddD2xaVE9NXE73cEAcdsh9SUkaBQlAd¶ms=EAEYATgBSAFYA2ILNU5tN... |
The name for the day is Trilok Gurtu; he is a very interesting individual who has collaborated with a number of master jazz musicians. Without a doubt, he is one of the most innovative percussionist around; not only that, but he can work in a lot of different grooves; here he is with his own trio. I don't know what this gal is singing, but I like it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtI91wVr6vs"The Magic of Drums" with Airto Moreira, and Trilok; and this is just the beginning of what Trilok can do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISj_X-qgyj8Enjoy the music. |
It's not fusion; I was yanking your chain. But, you still don't know fusion when you hear it; obviously. So, you didn't pan Taylor, does this mean you actually like it? There might be hope yet 😕 |
Larry Young:
I have the CD UNITY. I never thought of it as Fusion. Just goes to show that maybe I don't know fusion when i hear it. :)
Cheers |
Duke's piano: Thanks for the heads up. I think I'll pass; I already have Basie's and my wife would kill me since I'm holding out for Cecil Taylor's. I think you'll like this: Cecil Taylor in 1973: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RSv0uR-uupU |
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Alex, thank you for the introduction to Ganelin Trio. I agree with your description; impressive musicians. I previously commented that "free jazz" sometimes is no more than bs masquerading as jazz; these players definitely do not fall into that category. Impressive interplay and musical intuition; all with a uniquely and subtle ethnic (non-American) slant, as it should be. In its way, very soulful. I’m sure it doesn’t come as a surprise that I don’t feel that fusion is a dead end at all; and the notion is, as you say, only a theory. If the discussion continues I think you may reconsider. You pose a very interesting question. I will offer some thoughts when I have more time.
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The Frogman:
BBC News just reported that many items from the Duke Ellington estate are being auctioned off in NYC. Includes Clothing and Music scores. His piano is expected to go for a cool million. Better hurry!
Cheers |
acman3,
Whoa, Larry Young? Who? Never heard of the guy and now I'm scrambling to find a copy of this.
Thank you!
Bob
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frogman,
You said, "
Art reflects the culture. Think about it: is it any surprise that a
culture that moves more and more towards the elimination of borders and
away from individuality and self-reliance should see more and more
"fusion" in art? Whether the fusion is good art or not is dependent on
other things."
I couldn't agree more. Our world has changed greatly in the last 20 years, or 25 or 30. We are really living in "one world and one planet" and the awareness and the wonderfulness of the diversity of cultures are, at least for me, beyond excellent.
From the music, to the food, dance and literature, and the blending of all of them to discover new ways to express them is perhaps my greatest joy.
Rok,
The Invictus Choir; thank you for posting that. I watched the entire thing and cried at the end.
-- Bob
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Free Jazz "Keith Johnson of AllMusic describes a "Modern Creative" genre, in which "musicians may incorporate free playing into structured modes -- or play just about anything." Hell, I can do that. Anyone can do that. But then, that's the purpose of this so-called music. Soviet Free Jazz: Any music that could gain the approval of the commissars and bureaucrats in the Kremlin, did not have anything we would recognize as 'emotionally intense'. But, the Soviet Union was the perfect place for 'Free Jazz' to strive. They are both soulless and meaningless. Cheers |
'The late Soviet Union was not renowned for its contributions to jazz,
but it did produce at least one notable group, for in the '70s and '80s the Ganelin Trio was arguably the world's greatest free jazz ensemble. Comprised of pianist Vyacheslav Ganelin, saxophonist Vladimir Chekasin, and drummer Vladimir Tarasov,
the trio's mostly improvised music was as emotionally intense as
anything being created in the U.S. -- or anywhere else -- at the time.
The three members were extraordinarily skilled, possessed abundant chops
and imagination.' https://youtu.be/n6kOpdtwSzYThis next clip is also interesting, in regard to that theory that fusion was a dead end ( I am not a fan of it) but still one should ask himself how its possible that on two opposite sides (in many senses) of world, man can find many similar things in art? https://youtu.be/WGYDPFJMT0g |
"Jelly Roll Morton", the man who invented jazz, how could you go wrong there?
Enjoy the music.
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Frogman, if your post is interesting, I'll respond to it.
Enjoy the music.
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O-10, you are without a doubt one of the most disingenous individuals that I have ever had interaction with; it boggles the mind. No, I don't think the interest is below zero and I will post as I see fit; thank you very much. |
*****
Now that the interest is below 0, I think we should let Rok take us into whatever direction he chooses.*****
Back to the future!!! Jelly Roll here we come!!!
Cheers |
I have no problem with not referring to it as fusion-jazz. Honestly, it simplifies matters. From now on we'll refer to it as simply fusion and I actually think that's pretty much how it's been so far. I don't think the other way degrades anything; but, hey, if it makes you happy.....How's that? 😎 |
Frogman, almost all genres of music relate to something that's common to a lot of people in some segment of this population; blues, "My women done left me"; jazz, hip city streets; hillbilly, rural life, mostly in the south; country and western; horses, cowboys, rodeo life; you get the picture, and you can go on and on with the different segments of the population.
"Jazz fusion"; look at the covers on the albums, and the titles; "Hymn to The Seventh Galaxy", with electronic space music; there's no way that music could stand the test of time. Music doesn't exist in a vacuum, it has to relate to something that relates to human beings in order to withstand the test of time.
Since you were enthused with "Fusion", I was certain that you could lead us to whatever we missed, and that I might be able to add something new from that genre of music.
Now that the interest is below 0, I think we should let Rok take us into whatever direction he chooses.
Enjoy the music.
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Words matter. I( think a pro from NYC said that on this very thread.
Cheers |
*****
Not good jazz as far as level of improvisation and interplay between the players? Seriously?*****
Interplay and improvisation can exist in non-Jazz music. Seriously.
I think I posted a Classical piece a while back with interplay between the various instruments.
Cheers |
