I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Before slavery in the 1600's, a typical African village consisted of about 100 people. Since there were 12 million slaves imported to this hemisphere, that means we can divide 12 million by 100 to determine the number of villages that were transported on slave ships. That means there were 120000 villages transported to this hemisphere on slave ships.
Each village had it's own rhythm and dance, that means 120000 different African rhythms and dances were transported to this hemisphere. It's for certain the US forbid the drum, that means that all rhythms transported to the US were lost. Only rhythms transported to South America and the Caribbean survived. Since dancing made slaves happy, there is the possibility "African dances" were forbidden, maybe the slaves were allowed to do the "Turkey Trot", or square dance.
There is a possibility that the village next door copied some rhythms and dances, that means those remained in Africa, but that continent still lost quite a few drummers and steppers, along with their steps.
Kunta Kinte, Alex Haley's ancestor, was born 1750 in the Mandinka Village of Jufureh, in the Gambia. He was most unfortunate, his masters forbid him to play the drum and changed his name to "Toby". Times were tough for a slave, but they were even tougher in the US.
By sheer mathematical probability, a lot of song and dance, rhythm and boogie, left Africa that was not replaced.
Seems like an appropriate time to post this again. Interesting Grammy Award winning large scale work by one of the most talented members of Wynton’s JALC Orchestra. The interludes featuring famous presidential speeches makes the work particular interesting.
Billy Strayhorn, "The Peaceful Side". I have listened to different cuts over the years, but never listened to the entire record straight through. He always sounded like he was in complete control with not one extra note, and none left out. Streamed on Tidal.
An acquaintance told me a cute story recently, Being foodies both, and with a sweet tooth, we had been talking about our favorite Pepperidge Farm cookies. He recounted how he had once packed a lunch that included PF “Milano” cookies and a banana. The banana had gotten squashed inside his gig bag and had drooled all over the bag of cookies. Upon tasting the cookies they tasted like....”Banana Milanos”. He actually called the Pepperidge Farm corporate office to suggest a new cookie flavor. Their response was.........“ah, thanks for the suggestion, but please don’t call us, we’ll call you”. True story. 😊
rafevw, lovely and little known record from possibly my favorite Jazz composer/orchestrator, heard on this record alone on piano. One of the few examples on record of Strayhorn without the presence of Duke Ellington and orchestra with whom he had the very long and well known association. Thanks for the reminder.
Gorgeous Johnny Hodges! Love that recording, O-10. Thanks for that. Even Duke performed covers. “Indian Summer” was written by Victor Herbert, not Duke or Strayhorn.
Billy Strayhorn had such a distinctive voice as composer. All his tunes have a certain identifiable personality,
New to the site. Some more recent releases that are really worthwhile musically and sonically. Marseille, Ahmad Jamal. (Vinyl). Pure Jamal with complementary vocal tracks. Just beautiful.
Tierney Sutton Band, Screenplay (CD) Creative vocal interpretations of mostly familiar tunes from films enhanced by her accomplished collaborators. Really worth a listen if you love vocal jazz.
O-10, once you backed off of "it was all gone, nothing remained" and went with "it was significantly depleted," my objections to your theory have turned more "meh."
One nagging thought:
You seem to assume that villages averaging 100 inhabitants were totally wiped out by the slave trade. I'm skeptical because I think sellers and buyers weren't into rounding up every inhabitant (including frail older folks, infants that were unlikely to survive the voyage, and the physically disfigured). This was Capitalism at its most vicious, and limited ship capacity meant exporting only the more marketable subjects. If you have evidence that it was common for entire villages to be taken and thus wiped out, I'm all ears.
This all suggests some degree of survival of music and dance traditions throughout sub-Saharan Africa in spite of the horrors of the slave trade, perhaps explaining why we can still listen to current music and know we're hearing centuries of musical culture that was in place long before Europeans arrived.
Phildbasket, welcome to our group. Phil, since this thread began we have included, along with jazz, every subject under the Sun. The best way to play that is to simply ignore subjects you don’t want to get into and just respond to jazz.
That album by Ahmad Jamal has been well reviewed on this thread and given the highest rating.
Keegiam, it will not come as a surprise that I agree with what you wrote and this is not intended to pile on against O-10’s theories on the matter. I’ve done plenty of that already because I simply don’t agree with a premise that, as you suggest, defies logic and to me is inaccurate and incomplete at best. It is a fascinating topic that actually deserves more accuracy since it is actually quite relevant to the subject and history of this thread, Jazz. Ironically, and inaccurately, the universally accepted idea that the influence of African musical tradition is one of the key ingredients of Jazz has been staunchly denied by O-10 and another participant here on many occasions. Ironically, this opposing view is in direct contradiction to the much more accurate premise discussed now that those traditions were transplanted to Brazil where they became part of the cultural mix that created “Brazilian music“. Why anyone would think that the same would not happen in America is a mystery to me. Of course, it did happen.
Personally, I think that a closer look at all this is important because the music and the culture of a people deserve a more complete and honest look and not one romanticized by unverifiable personal notions and incomplete “facts“. A very interesting actual fact is that in many African cultures there is no word for “music” or “dance”. One of the main reasons that the way this topic is being discussed here is incomplete at best is that it is being discussed through a Western lens and a Western theoretical framework. Our notion of what music and dance are is a Western abstraction and in many ways is not applicable to a discussion of African music since “music” in Africa was inextricably linked to every day life and utilitarian in nature in many ways.
The idea that there were 120,000 different African rhythms is....well, to quote O-10, “I don’t want to be offensive”; but, then, I don’t have the musical acumen to be able to identify 120,000 different rhythms ☺️. I am reminded of driving North through Portugal to cross the border into Spain’s North Western tip in order to visit distant relatives in the small town of Verin where my maternal grandfather was born. It was fascinating to experience how at every stop along the way from Lisbon to Verin the Portuguese language literally morphed closer and closer to Spanish until just over the border in Verin it was identifiable as Spanish. With many remnants of Portuguese still, but (obviously) still using the same alphabet and syntax . This is probably very similar to what happened from village to village in Africa. The rhythms (inextricably linked to language) in the various villages in Africa while having different “accents” or even being different dialects shared the same “alphabet” and “syntax”. They survived.
As always, O-10, I appreciate your passion for all this and I hope there can be disagreement without drama.
"Ironically, and inaccurately, the universally accepted idea that the influence of African musical tradition is one of the key ingredients of Jazz has been staunchly denied by O-10 and another participant here"
Frogman’s statement is not universally accepted nor does it jibe with anybody who has ears for music. Clearly, African music can be heard all over the Caribbean and South America, but not in the United States of America; Why is that?
Give me just one example of music that is clearly African in origin, during, or just after slavery? Why does African music exist everywhere that slaves were sold except here?
Music was a way for slaves to express their feelings whether it was sorrow, joy, inspiration or hope. Songs were passed down from generation to generation throughout slavery. These songs were influenced by African and religious traditions and would later form the basis for what is known as “Negro Spirituals”.
That’s what was in "Google". Has anyone been to Africa and heard them sing "Negro Spirituals"? Has anyone heard anything from Africa that sounded like "Negro Spirituals"?
Negro Spirituals are the songs of Africans imported to the US and stripped of everything including their dignity and their culture. They were given the King. James version of the Bible and told to pray. That’s why all of those "Negro Spirituals" refer to stuff out of the Bible. If they were African songs, they would refer to stuff out of Africa.
Since this argument can be audibly refuted, I will give you an example of African music, and let you compare that to "Negro Spirituals" and see if you hear any resemblance.
I even tried to find something as close to Western music as possible, all the music in my collection is extreme African with absolutely no resemblance to most music here.
O-10, it runs much deeper than that and I have previously given you several specific examples of, among other things, the origin of “blue notes” in Jazz, the origin of the idea of “call and response” in music, the origin of “swing feel” as it is defined in Jazz; all with roots in African musical tradition. Theshe concepts are most certainly universally accepted. Read any authoritative musicological text, tome, book, treatise...whatever, for ample explanation and evidence; not to mention, the opinions of just about every Jazz musician that has been discussed here. Those opinions are well represented as well. Influence as part of the cultural mix, just as in Brazil. Influence, O-10, INFLUENCE.
I don't know where you're from Frogman, but I'm from the city. Modern American jazz is from the cities of this country. From the late fifties on, through the 60's, I was in St. Louis, Chicago, Atlanta, San Antonio, Detroit, and LA. There was one thing all those cities had in common, and that was jazz. No, the jazz was not different from this city to that city, during that time, whatever lounge I was in, the jukeboxes were quite similar; they contained the same tunes we have reviewed on this thread many times.
The only city where the music was a little different was LA; they had the same jazz plus what they called "West Coast Jazz". When musicians from New York, went to LA, they didn't change their style one iota, they played the same jazz they played in New York.
West Coast jazz could be heard in spots that are now famous for West Coast Jazz. LA was so hip, that all you needed was a boss tuner, they had more radio stations that played jazz than anyplace. When it came to musicians and live jazz, LA rivaled New York, but the musicians weren't famous. As good as they were, I wondered why that was so. It seems that good musicians didn't need to leave LA to make a living; they could do movies, or play clubs all up and down the coast. In regard to West Coast jazz or East Coast jazz, they played whatever the patrons of the nightspot they were appearing in demanded. (Good musicians can play more than one style).
When I say modern jazz, I'm speaking of the music that originated with all the musicians who surrounded and worshiped "Charles 'Yard Bird' Parker". That would include "Miles Davis"; Miles wore out a pair of shoes and the sidewalks of New York looking for Bird. Don't take my word for it, read Miles Autobiography.
That jazz is music that expresses uncommon and complex emotions; some can hear it, some can not. Many people who like the music can not hear everything in it, but so what. In regard to the people who are primarily responsible for modern jazz, for Gods sake let us not go back to Africa. Their history begins in the city in which they were born; Bird was born in Kansas City, there is a contradiction in regard to where Miles was born, and where he was raised, that's because he doesn't know anything about where he born (Alton Ill) but he knows a lot about where he was raised, E. St. Louis, Ill.
All of the cities I mentioned were wonderful places to live and have a good time in; I know, I lived in a few, and had a good time in all of them. Oh, I forgot Indianapolis, that was where Wes Montgomery began. Just about all the jazz musicians we reviewed on this thread began in local clubs in their hometown city before they made the big time, but Miles began in New York, so I guess that's where we'll have to make his hometown city.
The beginning for modern jazz musicians is the city in which they were born.
Not much time today, but it appears O-10 is skipping over New Orleans, where jazz emerged around the turn of the 19th Century. I encourage any member here to read "Louis Armstrong's New Orleans" by Thomas Brothers. The book is well researched and, as the title suggests, is as much about the social fabric of N.O. (which differed from most American cities because it flourished as a non-US trade hub for so long) and the earliest roots of what became jazz as it is about Louis. There were distinct borders for Creole, white and darker-skinned Negro neighborhoods. Storyville, King Oliver, Buddy Bolden, Kid Ory (who moved to L.A. in 1919 at age 33... hmmm). Very informative and a good read.
According to Thomas, Louis recalled that, as a child (long before he learned to play himself), he was fascinated by a poor neighborhood "rags, bottles and bones" guy playing music like he had never heard on a cheap tin party bugle someone had thrown away. The music soon spread up the Mississippi River Valley and to the Northeast to many of the cities mentioned by O-10. And, yes, the influence of music from Baptist and Sanctified churches figured prominently.
Lets try it this way. O-10, you accept that there was a strong Afro influence in Brazil’s music along with native and Portuguese. Why then, was not a similar, if not identical, influence exerted unto American music (in New Orleans, initially)?
When I find myself in times of trouble, Mother Mary comes to me Speaking words of wisdom, let it be And in my hour of darkness she is standing right in front of me Speaking words of wisdom, let it be.
Keegiam, I have never been to New Orleans, nor have I any desire to go to New Orleans. I consider the musicians you mentioned "Dixie Land", and unfortunately, they are mostly absent from my collection. I don’t collect records just to say I have them, I buy records to hear music that I like, no other reason, and I don’t like "Dixie Land"; take me out back and shoot me if you like, but that’s the way it is.
Books are composed of words written on paper, records are composed of music that is recorded on vinyl, such as "modern jazz" which is somewhat different from a lot of music that was recorded before it’s time. The same musicians who were playing before it’s time responded by changing their tune.
Writers have to write, and jazz musicians have to blow. Writers can not become jazz musicians, and jazz musicians don’t want to write, but writers have decided that they must write about modern jazz (that which they do not understand) but just like birds got to fly and fish got to swim, writers got to write, and some people believe what they have written.
You read books and listen to records, since abstract modern jazz can not be put into words, you might have a problem if you can only understand words. Jazz aficionados perceive abstract modern jazz; maybe this is a case of "You have to have sung the song before you can understand and feel it". Jazz expresses so many abstract emotions that are unique, primarily to the city, that maybe if one is from the country, they haven’t experienced those emotions and don’t get the message that Miles, or Bird, or Monk, or Charley Rouse, or Mal Waldron or so many other people are sending out. ( as much as I like Herbie Mann, I intentionally left him out because as well as he can play jazz, he wanders all over the place)
Modern jazz does not "resonate" with everyone; this is what happens when the music excites something deep inside yourself; maybe you have it and maybe you don’t, but modern jazz is not an intellectual exercise, it’s about emotions, if you don’t feel it forget it.
I would dare to say, at least from my own personal experience, that jazz music is, for me, a state of mind and in a same time an estetic preference as well as an emotional experience. I do not necessarily connect it with outside world (for obvious reasons as it almost does not exist in my near surroundings except when I ’play’ it) so I have to keep it and carry it with me almost as an accomplice. To be able to sing or to play must be very comforting, among many other things...
You just did. Actually, you first heard it three or four years ago when I posted it. You liked it then and I’m glad to see you still like it. Whether you, O-10, can hear it or not is not an indication that it is not there. Maybe 120,000 of anything is just too much to handle; confuses one’s brain. Great record. Pepper kills.
The following music is proof enough to me, that centuries old African rythm is alive and well, in many different genre's of music in North America. It is an album by the son of the recently departed NEA Jazz Master, writer, composer, arranger and master saxophone player Jimmy Heath. R.I.P.
Jimmy's son James was born in Philadelphia in 1946. His father Jimmy had an addiction problem at the time which caused him to end up in prison and James was raised by his mother and stepfather, a jazz pianist named James "Hen Gates" Foreman. Young James took his stepfathers last name and was known as James Foreman.
In 1966 James Foreman, now 20 years old joined a black empowerment group and its leader, Maulana Karenga, gave James the name Mtume which means messenger in Swahili. Here is Mtume's live album release titled
Mtume Umoja Ensemble - Alkebu-Lan: Land of the Blacks
Listen to the whole album including the 4 plus minute spoken introduction if this subject interests any of you. I am posting it because there has been a lot of unnecessary debating creating a negative vibe on this thread for quite some time now about the subject of African rythmic influences transported to other continents. Every one is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. Since I wont pretend to be an expert on deciphering rythm patterns this is just my humble opinion.
With respect, your first mistake is assuming that the first wave consisted only of “Batista’s”. Moreover, “enthralled” is rather demeaning of the very real and morally principled reasons that many joined the first wave; which were, in short, to escape the inevitable and resultant oppression and to seek freedom. TV? Again, with respect, the notion diminishes the values of a culture that believes in self reliance, hard work, family, God and freedom. TV has little to do with it. In fact, I would say that those values have been passed on to the younger generation IN SPITE OF television. Regards.
<<
You read books and listen to records, since abstract modern jazz can not
be put into words, you might have a problem if you can only understand
words.
>>
OK O-10, I'm outta here because this is downright insulting. I began learning to read and play music in the early 60's. If I can "only understand words" as you've concluded, all that training, hearing, listening and connecting means nothing. Nice.
BTW, I've been a big fan of "modern abstract jazz" ever since. You should get to know the members in the forum better. I didn't bring up N.O. because that's my favorite jazz, I brought it up for historical value.
Keegiam, dont take it to your heart, I believe no harm was intended in Op’s words. Sometimes its just the heat of the moment behind ’harsh’ tones here, but I am sure you are a ’big boy’, stick around
Thanks for your kind words, and you have it exactly right. I took O-10's words the wrong way. I also misspoke when I said "I'm outta here" because my intent was to pull out of that conversation, not the forum.
Back to the music - one of my longtime favorite musicians, Yusef Lateef:
As Alex suggests, it’s important to be a “big boy”; and that applies to everyone here. Being a big boy also includes taking responsibility for one’s words and how they are conveyed; during and after the fact. There is a way to disagree, even vehemently, while still showing respect to the person that one is disagreeing with. Respect includes not making self aggrandizing claims that are exclusionary and which are no more than opinion not backed up by anything verifiably factual. The notion of subjectivity in music ends beyond what our individual personal preferences are. Beyond that, there is little that has not been covered authoritatively and demonstrably and can be verified. Unless of course, ego is at work and the grand opinions are shown to be no more than bs.
Everyday people attempt to rewrite history, but someone always digs up the facts.
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.
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