Cgoodwin, you do your thing and I'll do mine.
Jazz for aficionados
Jazz for aficionados
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
I'm going to review records in my collection, and you'll be able to decide if they're worthy of your collection. These records are what I consider "must haves" for any jazz aficionado, and would be found in their collections. I wont review any record that's not on CD, nor will I review any record if the CD is markedly inferior. Fortunately, I only found 1 case where the CD was markedly inferior to the record.
Our first album is "Moanin" by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. We have Lee Morgan , trumpet; Benney Golson, tenor sax; Bobby Timmons, piano; Jymie merrit, bass; Art Blakey, drums.
The title tune "Moanin" is by Bobby Timmons, it conveys the emotion of the title like no other tune I've ever heard, even better than any words could ever convey. This music pictures a person whose down to his last nickel, and all he can do is "moan".
"Along Came Betty" is a tune by Benny Golson, it reminds me of a Betty I once knew. She was gorgeous with a jazzy personality, and she moved smooth and easy, just like this tune. Somebody find me a time machine! Maybe you knew a Betty.
While the rest of the music is just fine, those are my favorite tunes. Why don't you share your, "must have" jazz albums with us.
Enjoy the music.
31,708 responses Add your response
o10 Enigma has been called "mood music". I’m not sure why. I do know I have to be in a melancholy mood to listen to them. The phrases and chanting are always spaced correctly in correlation to the rhythmic percussion. "Return To Innocence" as well as MCMXC had some "commercial success" but you can take any one of their discs and play it in full with your lady friend in a candle lit room to enhance your intimacy session. Every song seems to be good for the "mood" Return To Innocence extended play with an awesome video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY5xjlTZuJw |
Cgoodwin, stick around and you’ll realize that your concern is unfounded. Personally, I agree with your sentiment 100%, but it really does not apply as current artists, including most of the ones you mention, are and have been well covered. Welcome to the thread; always room for new contributors and new perspectives. |
Acman, that Gil Scott Heron clip was quite appropriate at this time. I recall Gil Scott Heron from the late 60's, he believed that protest would make things better; they've gotten "exponentially" worse for the people at the bottom; may he RIP wherever he is, because he certainly would not be able to rest here. |
acman I really liked that Mike Nock/Laurenz Pike - 'Kindred' clip. Its like a musical abstract painting. I have a lot of ECM label discs with similar music. Artists seem to flock to ECM to express what they are experimenting on and ECM likes this. Pink Floyd was to rock as the ECM label musicians are to jazz. I remember my younger days smoking mary jane and hash while listening to Pink Floyd's mesmerizing long psychedelic jams. Echoes is my favorite Pink Floyd song followed by everything they ever recorded in no particular order. Here is David Gilmour with Richard Wright performing Echoes in Gdansk Poland 2006. Wright passed away 2 years later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMneCi9F_UQ The Great Gig In The Sky is another Floyd song I would blast in my bedroom. My mom came in and said it was beautiful. I'll never forget that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVBCE3gaNxc |
Fellow inmates, I am an old man, I have been to a lot of places, I have seen a lot of things; but I have never seen anything even remotely like what I saw this morning, the normally busy streets here were deserted, it was like a science fiction movie. I went to Walmart, and found many empty shelves, no toilet paper. That should be placed under "National Emergency", it can cause more problems than you would believe. Let us enjoy our quarantine with good music, and stay safe. |
ghosthouse, nice clip. Mintzer is one of the most talented musicians around today. Great composer/arranger/ big band leader as well as player. Bass clarinet: For me the bass clarinet, like all instruments really, is most effective when all its unique qualities are used to their fullest and is played as more than just like another “saxophone” with a different type of tone. Dolphy was, of course, the master and standard bearer. Benny Maupin is a very soulful and underrated player who deserves more coverage here. Funky as hell on saxophones he is one of those who, IMO, also found the bass clarinet’s “soul”. Charter member of Herbie Hancock’s “Headhunters” he has been involved in many interesting projects including his own: https://youtu.be/Mad5PBuGrw0 Very different approach to the same tune: https://youtu.be/0Zlo2mkEo5U https://youtu.be/Gcqr63Q5mEs https://youtu.be/WtORTuLJw7o https://youtu.be/mZy7v_-ss74 |
Thanks for all those links, Frogman. Lots to consider. re Eric Dolphy and the bass clarinet. I wish I could appreciate him more. There is something there, no doubt, but he is beyond me at this point in time. You might recall, a while back, Rok posted a B&W video of the Chas. Mingus sextet doing take the A-Train live somewhere in Scandinavia. In addition to a great Jaki Byard solo on piano, ED solo'd at length on bass clarinet (you characterized it as "wonderfully eccentric", which it was). Mingus walked off stage in the middle of it...to use the restroom I suppose. That is a fascinating clip that bears repeated watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xObINuHiMGI |
I’m sorry, but you can’t call yourself a Jazz aficionado if you can’t even list artists from this century. Jazz is a living, breathing art form. Wow!! On his very first post on Audiogon, he defines Jazz and gives the criteria for being considered an 'aficionado'. Which apparently, we ain't. Save The Frogman, of course. Some folks seem to think Jazz is something akin to the old teenage music listed on the 'top forty' or 'hit parade'. Everyone was famous for a while, measured in weeks. Jazz is more like Classical Music. It does not get old. It's timeless. Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Charlie Mingus, etc....... will be listened to, and talked about for centuries after those noise makers you listed (McBride excepted) are completely forgotten. In fact, most are forgotten already. The Frogman's First Law. You need to check out the Dick Clark thread. See what's 'new'. Cheers |
It seems as if the thread has become victim to the noise pandemic. Fortunately, I have a vaccine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5Hbh_-IRs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LHMNxk8DqA Listen to these twice a day until noise subsides. Cheers |
https://youtu.be/UnPMoAb4y8U ....and probably best to be leave others out of your diatribes. Tense time, so I’ll overlook this one 😊 Btw, you really think Corea will be forgotten before McBride (great as he is)...if ever? Not a chance. |
If anyone is in doubt as to what their taste in Jazz really is, just answer these two questions. 1. What t do you buy with your money? CD / LP. 2. What do you listen to most of the time? Repeated listening. The answers tell you what you like. End of discussion I suspect the only time a lot of this stuff is listened to, is when it is posted from you-tube clips. Cheers |
I was rummaging through some boxes in the basement that had sat for so long that I had forgotten what they contained. At the bottom of one of the boxes was a dusty crystal ball. I rubbed the dust off to see if it still worked, and to my surprise a vision began to appear; a man singing a song; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIuSTT277XI Fortunately, that didn't last long, but it was followed by this foxy lady singing the same song; could this portend to our future? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--VoDLuUh18 |
It's amazing how this music became a part of my life, it was the backdrop to places and events, like the soundtrack to a movie, the movie of my life. Let me explain; while other people bought a record and played it on their record player, I put a quarter in the jukebox. I went from one lounge to the next in 72; there was a lot going on in my city, and I didn't want to miss anything. It's funny how I didn't have to take "Manu Dibango" with me, he was waiting at each lounge I went to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWK_Josc0Og From one event to the next, from one barmaid to the next; that's the way I rolled at that time and I met Manu Dibango at each pit stop along the way; youth must be enjoyed and savored, not wasted, and I have the memory of Manu Dibango's spirit and music enjoying those times with me. |
Rok, I am not in the mood for bickering, but I am always in the mood for dialogue for the the sake of clarity and hopefully progress in understanding points of view. As I said, I do agree with the general sentiment expressed in cgoodwin’s post: “Jazz is a living, breathing art form”. This is my viewpoint and I have no expectation that anyone else will feel the same way. First, as I have said several times before I have trouble with the word and description “aficionado”. I’m not sure what it means and it is way too easy to hide behind that banner when none of us here can live up to the complete definition of the word. Fan? Avid fan? Sure. Aficionado? For some reason the word always conjures up visions of Hugh Hefner in a silk robe and pipe listening to his hi-fi. Call me weird. There’s way too much that all of us don’t really understand about this great music. Personal taste and preferences are not knowledge and understanding. Now, your diatribe: “Facts“? ....right. “in some circles”? Not a chance; you need more than one to make a circle. To not recognize what a contribution Corea has made to the music as composer, never mind as player, only makes cgoodwin’s point. Name me one tune written by McBride that has become a Jazz standard. Corea has several. Name me one bass player that names McBride as an important influence. The list for Corea is very long. As I said before, McBride is a great player; but, really? As always, I don’t care that you don’t like (mostly) the new stuff. What I do care about and find ironic and unfortunate is that you claim to be such a purist and “keeper of the flame” and yet, when someone who clearly states “I love the old stuff” and goes to the trouble of posting here for the first time you attack instead of being welcoming and encouraging more involvement. Mind you, he probably could have been more tactful, but hey....what is it they say, “the pot calling the kettle black”? 😄 See, had you left me out of it as is appropriate you would have spared yourself (and me) all this 😊 Be well and stay healthy. Btw, always sad to hear of someone’s passing and probably in bad taste to say anything remotely negative about someone who has just passed, but to add to my point about “facts”, “old vs new” and “personal taste vs understanding”, I notice the headline of the article about Dibango refers to him as “Saxophone great...”.....I’ll stop there. |
First, as I have said several times before, I have trouble with the word and description “aficionado”. Most of us here use the term as a form of self-mocking. Making fun of ourselves. No one takes it serious. At least I assumed no one did / does. To not recognize what a contribution Corea has made to the music as composer, never mind as player, only makes cgoodwin’s point. Back in my LP days, I think Corea played with a group, can't remember who. Anyway, I put him / them in the fusion crowd. I have 3 CDs by Corea, all had rave reviews, I never listen to any of them. In fact I don't even remember playing them just to post here. I didn't mention him because I don't like his style. For some reason I think of folks like Jarrett and DeJohnette. Not really my thing. If was not a scientific thing. you claim to be such a purist and “keeper of the flame” and yet, when someone who clearly states “I love the old stuff” and goes to the trouble of posting here for the first time you attack instead of being welcoming and encouraging more involvement. I like the music because of the history. I don't separate the two. I don't consider any of it 'old'. I always, or nearly always speak of the music and the players in the present tense. I am not a 'purist'. A post of Mingus and one of Elmore James are both fine with me. However, I will speak up when someone shows disrespect to the people who made and played this great music. And disrespect takes many forms. Btw, EVERYONE who posts on this thread, has probably forgotten more about Jazz than I will ever know. Hardly a keeper of the flame. First Time Posters:It's best get off on the right foot. He displayed an 'audiophile' attitude. A drive by shooter. Makes an outrageous comment and you never hear from him again. If you were making your first post to this thread, would that have been it? Dibango:Never heard of him. His 'greatest hit' did nothing for me. The Frogman's first law applies. Btw, they played that tune on the French News tonight when announced his death. I don't get it. Cheers |
On page 422, Cgoodwin tells us that we can not call ourselves "jazz aficionados" if you can’t even list artists from this century. You, Frogman, have trouble with the word and description. First, you and Cgoodwin should reconcile your differences in regard to the word "Aficionado". Shortly after this thread began you had a problem with the word and I suggested you start a thread of your own and name it whatever you like. That was then; you have contributed a lot to this thread and I’m not suggesting that now, but if you have a problem with the title of the thread, I can’t think of anything else for you to do. Maybe you and Cgoodwin could come up with something more constructive than this thread. Since the dictionary has no problem defining the word, I don’t know why you have such a problem understanding that definition. This thread has gone on for years accommodating not only different tastes in jazz, but even different genres of music. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it; that’s my motto. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen; that’s another one of my mottos. If you don’t like what’s going on on this thread, find one that suits you (I just made that one up) not really, this is not the first time and it won't be the last time; it's kind of like a marriage. Frogman, I can not count the times you referred to someone as great, and I disagreed with you but let it slide; that’s not even worth mentioning in my opinion. In conclusion "Soul Makossa" really floated my boat, and I dropped a quarter in the jukebox to hear it in every lounge I went to when it was popular. That was the way I rolled, and I didn’t ask anybody’s permission then, nor am I asking it now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWK_Josc0Og |
Thank you both for your responses to MY diatribe. Rok, **** Most of us here use the term as a form of self-mocking. Making fun of ourselves. No one takes it serious. At least I assumed no one did / does. **** News to me and glad to know. As I have said before I believe you and I agree in spirit more than it may seem; things just get a little muddled sometimes. Well, not too sure about the “no one” part. I guess that means that you too should “start your own thread” 😊 O-10, it’s just a word. I already explained why I have trouble with it and Rok helped me out. No need to rehash. Actually, as I think about it, it’s a bit like the debates about what is and what is not Jazz; and, why ultimately it doesn’t really matter that much. Your thread is just fine. I did like Hefner’s “friends”. Romantic and lady killer that you are you will surely appreciate that 😘 Rok, **** However, I will speak up when someone shows disrespect to the people who made and played this great music. **** To quote the poor guy who had no idea just how much heat was in this kitchen: “I love the old stuff”. We’ve called it that countless times here. Where’s the disrespect? O-10, let’s not confuse matters. It was the article that referred to Dibango as “saxophone great”. I had no idea that you too thought he was a saxophone great. Had I known, I would have “let it slide” despite my strong disagreement. Seems to me there is a difference between someone ”floating one’s boat” (once?) and considering him one of the greats. Way too low a bar in my book. Adele must have been really something and really raised your bar 😉 Just having a little fun, you guys. See what social distancing and having all my spinning classes cancelled does to a person? I finally have time to bias my amps’ sixteen power tubes 😱. Oh, shi#, does that mean that I am an.....”audiophile”? Please, nobody tell Rok. Anyway, putting all the silly pseudo-personal stuff aside the important point for me in all this is pretty simple. We complain about how this art form is dying and/or claim that this thread is some sort of exclusive club with few members. Yet, we do little to encourage more participation when new folks show up that either have a different point of view, are less than perfectly clear or tactful expressing it; or who don’t yet know where the kitchen’s fire extinguisher is kept. Seems to me that it’s not the best way to keep the Jazz flame alive. Everyone be well. |
The Chick Corea that has been stuck in my mind since back in the day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppUpj90YAFU Things seem to have changed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V39lXlaj830 We now have a real bass, a real piano, and a Saxophone. Not a guitar in sight. We can assume he has seen the error of his ways. Now, if they would only get their suits out of the cleaners in time for the gig. Cheers |
Gets even better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uYDBVoUjPo Questions to The Frogman: When players 'quote', is it always done on purpose, or do they find themselves in a situation where it's the logical thing to do. 'Having played these notes, these logically follow' type thing. Cheers |
Once again Frogman, you have derailed the current mood of this thread, and your penchant for having the last word has exacerbated the situation. This all began when some one who has never posted on this thread before came to us in a disrespectful manner that you can read on page 422. On your last words, you stated that you had no idea that I considered him a saxophone great (I never said that) I was showing respect for someone whose music I had enjoyed, who was no longer with us as a result of COVID 19 You consistently defend every "Johnny come lately" no matter how disrespectful he comes to this thread. Maybe you can e-mail him and the both of you can "keep the jazz flame alive" I am quite capable of expressing anything I have to say explicitly, no help needed. I shared with my fellow "aficionados" (of which you are not one of since you don't like the word) my relationship and happy memories of the late Manu Dibango's music. In regard to your (snarky) statement, "I had no idea that you thought he was a saxophone great". If after all these years of posting on this thread you have no idea of the musicians I consider great----------- I wont even go there. Happy Lock-down. |
Rok, check this out. Ghosthouse commented on this recently. I posted it a while back. I suspect you overlooked it based on an assumption. We could talk about assumptions; but, hey, what was it that Otis said? 😊 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLvxWibFr0wiKOyy4lwYc8zn6wnvsEMNJR Nice clips, btw....both. |
O-10, let it go and lighten up, please. Stress is not a good thing; especially now. Humor, on the other hand, is. From my vantage point you, as the OP, should take the high road and engage and inform a newcomer. Personally, I saw nothing particularly egregious or insulting in what he wrote; certainly no more than what some card carrying aficionados have sometimes written. Feel free to have the last word. Stay well and smile. |
Herd Immunity might be the last resort. Otherwise we will survive just to stand in the soup line.No, no, no and no. That attitude could bring us exactly in the soup line. Herd Immunity makes sense only when you know with what you are dealing with and you want to control the spread at the same time. Noone has the full insight into the nature of this. It can mutate in unexpected forms and could go beyond any control. It is highly contagious and can spread fast and easy among large population. I mean, who would help everyone at the same time if that would happen. There would be chaos! In addition, there would be countless number of individuals with permanent damage in health (and later would become certain ’burden’ to the entire system not just the health system). In short, if being off the leash, it can paralyze the whole system. The answer is only, to prevent, to test, to prevent, to test, to prevent so that humanity can buy the time till vaccine appears. No need to stop the life in complete. The economy would severley suffer. People (especially the stupid ones) has to be educated and in majority protected. But of course, how we can possibly protect anyone or prevent anything when we can’t even provide the toilet paper in the stores. Should I even mention protective masks, gloves, etc...They are talking about damn masks as if they were made out of gold. It must be since it’s impossible to get them and if you do, you’ll pay a lot for it. And there is also this problem in USA: https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5806312/coronavirus-treatment-cost/%3famp=true Message: better to stay home and spread the virus For some reason people mostly like this (health) system. I guess they like it because they hope that they will be among the rich ones who can afford extreme hospitals bills but sadly, it’s more likely that they will end up selling at least a house they live in and a kidney to cover their hospital bills. Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming... |
What bothered me was the summarily and almost contemptuous way he dismissed the 'old stuff'. Like..... yeah, yeah, yeah, we know all about them, now lets move on to the REAL Jazz players. And who are they you might ask, well, read'em and weep. Snarky Puppy, Esperanza Spaulding, Jazzmeia Horn, Linda Mae Han Oh, Brad Mehldau, Adam Ben Ezra, The Frogman's First law was written with them in mind. Cheers |
Thank you Mary_jo for a sensible post, it might stop my ranting and raving, I was about to go on another rant before I read your post. People my age are dropping like flies; that's not exactly good news, plus I'm not feeling well after going out yesterday, but that's not totally unusual. (not feeling well) Now they're arguing about ventilators! If I need a ventilator, the next guy down the line can have mine, I prefer someone to say the last rites. |
Rok, interesting question and excellent comment on the possibilities. If you think about it, it is both. If one starts with the premise that everything that a great improviser does is done “on purpose”, which it is, then there’s your answer. Sure, they get “lost” in the moment, but they are in control at all times. However, “quoting”, as we know, is sometimes more effective than others. Sometimes a player wants to throw in some humor (speaking of humor) into a solo and throws in a quote of a tune in a way that isn’t in context logically as you say. Great as he was, how many times do we have to hear “Mona Lisa” in a Dexter Gordon solo? To me, it often sounds forced. Quoting is most effective when it is used more organically (hate the overused word, but appropriate). For instance, and I suspect this is what you refer to: Kenny Garrett quotes twice (quoting the tune one is playing itself doesn’t count) in “Straight No Chaser”. Around 3:10 or so he quotes the beginning of “Camptowm Races” (!); then, around 4:00 or so he quotes “When The Saints ....”. Go back and notice how he starts his solo. He begins his solo with the very note that Hargrove ends his solo with. That very note happens to be the first note of the tune “Camptowm Races”. Perfect logic. These guys are brilliant. They have a huge “vocabulary” to draw from. Great clips, thanks. |
Re the intrepid poster: I just don’t see it that way. He wasn’t dismissing the old stuff at all. For some reason he wasn’t aware of the fact that the new stuff is covered here as well. I would bet that he scanned the first couple of pages of the thread (old stuff) and posted. Too quick on the draw. I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt and get a better read on what he has to say. Are our skins really that thin? Btw, I notice you took Corea off the “list” 😎 |