Jazz for aficionados

While the best artists have been posted, their best works have not. This is just one person's opinion.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4mNF1G8g6A


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXZWbr2fFrU

pryso.

Ginger Baker trio is the core of the band with Baker on drums, Ron Miles on trumpet, and Artie Moore on bass. The rest are various "guest musicians" hence the DJQ20 on the album cover.

DJQ20 stands for "The Denver Jazz Quintet - to - Octet. See a summary of the album here:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/coward-of-the-county-mw0000241034

That the album was released in 1999 when James Carter was 30, and they put on the album cover "Special guest James Carter", is a testament to the virtuosity of Carter even at 30 years old he was so well known by jazz aficionado’s (he had been playin the sax since he was 16) especially in his home town of Detroit and NYC. Obviously putting Carter on the cover was to help album sales.


This "Ginger Baker Trio" is Baker with Bill Frisell and Charlie Haden:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8GJdPD53w4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49Z2ykdW2gI


And in 2014, Baker recorded another jazz album titled "Why" with interesting interpretations of Wayne Shorter’s "Foot Prints" and Sonny Rollins’ "St Thomas". The sax player for this recording, Pee Wee Ellis, who took lessons from Sonny Rollins but gained his notoriety with James Brown and Van Morrison, shows he can play jazz as well as R & B

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZp9SSDwKeE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ndjnq40e6A8

"Aiko Biaye" , from the "Why" album live in Madrid 5/06/2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azOczMqyu90

Fortunately, some of the best works by lesser known artists have been posted. I would like to keep that going by posting "Sonny Criss"


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crhYor3nbvo


"The Isle of Celia"; that's an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean where I am stranded for life with the fascinating and beguiling "Celia".


     

I would like to point out an artist that I don't know from "Adam's house cat"; Dan Wilson on guitar. Everybody knows Joey DeFranco, but how many people know Dan Wilson?


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ3f1Y8Aw_U

***** What is your take on deserting the Kurds who did much of the heavy lifting against ISIS ?*****

Another shameful episode.  I don't see why anyone would help us in the future.   This time, it's because we have a President who is not a politician, has no policy doctrine in mind,  and is too arrogant to listen to advice.  He just tries to do what he promised he would do in the election.   I think he sees that as the safe way.

Of course we did the same thing in Vietnam, Irag and Afghanistan.

This does benefit Putin and the guy in Turkey.   You do the math. 

Maybe we will have the decency  to arm the Kurds and provide air cover.   They are good fighters, and with proper arms they will take care of the Turks and the Syrians.   Russians also.

Cheers

@orpheus10  & @schubert  

I have found that Women, will confide to their friends, their most intimate and personal problems.   All they expect is for the friend to listen and show understanding and maybe be sympathetic.   But above all, to listen.

When you present problems to a Man, they think the person is asking them to DO something.  To solve the problem.  Or at the least,  tell them what to do.

So, what do you want us to DO, about Slavery and Jim Crow?

Cheers

Btw, the Jazz Queen of Croatia is exempt from the question.

***** The psychological aspects of slavery and "Jim Crow" are alive and well, there is no past.*****

Well, that would excuse   errrr I mean explain so much.   If only it were true.    Whew!!!    We don't want to lose those crutches.   They are like well worn house slippers.   So comfortable.   And always there when needed.

Cheers

Schubert, re “disagreement”.  Exactly! I’m good with that.

Great Gonzalo, thanks! I posted this the first year (!) of this thread. From his American debut recording. Although written by a Mexican composer, possibly the most popular ”Cuban” bolero:

https://youtu.be/EWtucrfzCCg

Does anybody remember Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert? They were two of the best movie critics; while they differed a lot, when they were in agreement, it was time to buy some movie tickets.

Rok, have you ever heard of "The Phenomenology of Guist?" I sat at a table where two college professors were discussing it, and although I listened intently, I couldn't quite grasp what it was about. After much studying, and observing "Hegel's Concept of Geist", 20 years later, I finally understood it.

How remarkably simple it was after I understood it. In a nutshell, it states that each man's "reality" is determined by his "Phenomenology of Guist". That means that your reality is determined by what you, "Billy Bob and Bubba", discussed over a quart of moonshine in Mississippi.

And since they have ascertained it to be the truth, there can be no doubt about it.

I hope you can appreciate the positive nature of this comment. As Schubert correctly pointed our supposed disagreement (about music) is, and has been, “not so much”. Of course there has been disagreement. Why wouldn’t there be? We all have opinions and it is highly unlikely that any two people will agree on everything. However, there has been a hell of a lot more agreement than disagreement. I think the key is to use the disagreement as a way to have better understanding instead of immediately jumping to “the dark side” and shutting down the dialogue; or worse...far worse. Regards.

https://youtu.be/gsBC5C5ERho

***** That means that your reality is determined by what you, "Billy Bob and Bubba", discussed over a quart of moonshine in Mississippi.*****

The discussion was with Colonel Beauregard.   And no self respecting Bigoted, Narcissist would be caught dead drinking "moonshine'.   We think too much of ourselves.   That's a drink for the common man.
I was always partial to I.W. Harper.

Cheers

Speaking of slavery...
Just a reminder on Liberia case.
Liberia was founded as a colony for former African-American slaves ( "send them back"). The ones who came at that time to Liberia, imposed modern slavery on natives by exploiting them for labor. 

Long live liberty...

Back to jazz...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/music/reviews/xm4h/

Gary Bartz
Uhuru Sasa
https://youtu.be/rsxht79qbMc

Gary Bartz
Love Ballad
https://youtu.be/MC7gHaOJ4Gw

p.s.
"Btw, the Jazz Queen of Croatia is exempt from the question."

Ooh...I got my title back. Now we can talk normally. What was the question...?

p.s.1
"Does anybody remember Gene Siskel and Roger Ebert? They were two of the best movie critics; while they differed a lot, when they were in agreement, it was time to buy some movie tickets."

:-----) lol, if you by any chance spot some of the ancient review resemblances, please inform me about the movie title...

p.s.2
"I think the key is to use the disagreement as a way to have better understanding instead of immediately jumping to “the dark side” and shutting down the dialogue; or worse...far worse. Regards."

fro, I watched yesterday a reality show. A woman reacted on man's bad behaviour with extreme politeness. She showed understanding, tolerance, kindness. But you know, my point is, that now and then one has just to 'jump to the dark side' and say 'shut the f*** up' or throw something (a plate or similar :---)) in the right direction :--) Kindness is definitely not sine qua non in just every case.

**** Kindness is definitely not sine qua non in just every case.****

Of course not and I don’t disagree at all with what you say, mary_jo; there is a limit to everything. However, my comment referred to a person’s reaction to simple and honest disagreement and a suggestion for a better way to interact following the disagreement. The subsequent response to an extremely negative or abusive reaction to the disagreement is a different matter. Although, it is also true that the provocative comment is sometimes made simply to “stir the pot” and illicit a reaction (loneliness and boredom can be a b!tch). In that case the best reaction is no reaction at all and to leave the small minded provocateur “hanging”.

That’s true mary jo.,Humans who have suffered a lot tend to inflict on others
what they have gone through to give some meaning to their suffering .
In Germany a few years ago a law that medical interns can not work over12 hours a day or 60 hours a week was passed .Why? Because they were making too many mistakes to include death .
German Doc’s were bitter over that and most wanted interns to work the 24
hours shifts they had to.
You could 20x that in Liberia !

If mankind was not basically peaceful we would all be dead by age 20 .

rok, what I would do is make curing ,as much as we can ,now seems about 60% , of traumatic suffering children THE # 1 job of the nation no matter what . FYI, the initial studies (21,000) were largely white middle class .

As a soldier you know Napoleon said a lot of things , some were even true .

My favorite is "There are no bad soldiers , just bad Generals" . Apt for many things in society .
Your answer on the Krurds was  brilliant and worthy of a great  Staff S-3 !I say brilliant because that is EXACTLY what  my old  E-8 brain thought as well . Leaves bad taste in my mouth .The one thing I am most proud of was I led from the front and never left anybody behind .

acman3Thanks for the article John coltrane's new blue world set. And the music also

***** All of this is going on in your, "America".*****

I ask again, what should we do?    The answer might be found in Brazil.   We aren't there yet.

Cheers

Liberia:

The President of the country of Liberia said during an interview on a European news broadcast " Liberia never had the ADVANTAGE of being a European Colony".  

President Ellen Johnson.  Harvard Educated.

She was attempting to explain the long running civil war and poor economic development.

Talk about food for thought.

Cheers

@schubert

My favorite is from The great Dictator and music critic, Stalin, who said during the war:

"It takes a brave man to be a coward in the Red Army."

Cheers

***** what I would do is make curing ,as much as we can ,now seems about 60% , of traumatic suffering children THE # 1 job of the nation no matter what*****

Excellent point.   I would say that the vast majority of children born and raised in inner-city America are victims of child abuse.   It approaches 100%.   Either physical, emotional, verbal, sexual, or all of the above.  This explains the conduct more than anything else.  Being poor, lack of finances,  does not make you a killer.
Being Poor in a spiritual sense, morality and humanity can.
That's where they are poverty stricken.

Cheers

frogmanSpeaking of players who sound better as leaders I'll refer you back to a you posting of yours  of the first meeting between Stan Getz and Bill Evans recorded on Verve. this album was not released till after Stan Getz died in the early 90s. I am quoting this information from his biography that I am currently reading. The author stated that both Stan and Evans  privately stated they where not happy with their playing  and did not want the music issued.  getz had veto power so the  session was issued without his permission after he died.  the author said Stan played like his usual self but Evans was tentative possibly due to the Rhythm Section.
 I had listened to several cuts prior to reading this and enjoyed them but went back to listen to the album after reading this and I could hear that Evans did play tentatively not spinning out his usual lyrical lines. I think there  are three interesting points  of observation:1)   the pressures that artist(s) put upon themselves to achieve a higher level of playing. And the fact that two great artists were getting together they both expected great music to be produced.2)   although they may not have been at the top of their game we both enjoyed the pairing and the music produced despite the fact that they may not have raised each other to a higher level.3) the session was produced by Creed Taylor. He also included coltrane's drummer and 2 bass players  ,Ron Carter and Richard Davis at different sessions and maybe thought the  pairing of thesegiants would be a super session. Although well-intentioned it may not have worked out that way.

orpheus10  Charles Mingus always got the best out of his side men that is what made him such a great leader. Debating whether someone has a better Jazz performance as a leader or sideman could be endless. I'm sure we could all come up with instances of great performances in both. Seems like an exercise in futility.

Great posts, nsp.  Excellent points and well laid out.  Your observation about the pressure that artists put on themselves is exactly right.  Musicians are their own toughest critics.  All this brings to mind a quote often repeated by musicians: “If I don’t practice for one day, I know it, two days and the critics know it, three days and the audience knows it”.

"Being poor, lack of finances, does not make you a killer."

Rok, when I was a kid, that statement was true; being poor meant that you lived in a crappy house, and didn't have the best clothes; but on this year of 2019, poverty in the wrong place can be a death sentence.

If the Gods picked any number of hard core poverty stricken inner city Ghettos; including Frogman's New York City, poverty can be a death sentence; kill or be killed.

But just like in Chicago, those who live on the Gold Coast couldn't care less about those who live in less fortunate parts of the city.

Every man for himself and God for us all; but when ever you get through, every him or her is going to do whatever it takes to survive one more day.

orpheus10
I admire your concern and compassion for others and your concern about societal issues and political problems. 
To be quite honest I come to this forum not to discuss politics but to get away from it.   Schubert had some good comments but I'll leave it at that.I think change is possible but the will of the  people has to be strong. I also feel this is for the Young who  should get involved because they shall inherit this mess.  at this stage of your life you should be looking for peace of mind and I know that's not always easy ,but that's my advice.

Frogman , similar  to a professional  infantryman , 3 days of no running and other PT and the edge is gone .

Right on , rok .
If it costs 500 billion a year the nation has to break the circle .
If we could spend a trillion on the F-35 we can find half that for our childrento fight our real worst enemy ..

nsp, I made a number of jazz posts and you didn't comment on any of them, why did you comment on this post that was meant for Rok?

Hey frog, yes I certainly saw your answer to Children Song #1, so thanks for that.  I have "Crystal Silence" but have not listened to it in years* -- maybe that was the familiarity?  I need to check out your other references.  And thanks for the greeting as well.

pjw, I also need to take some time with your Baker links, so thanks for those too.

Getting settled into my new home is taking longer than expected.  I've still not set up my music system!  Plus other references here have been coming fast and furious here lately.  Thanks to all.  As the song goes, "I'm Over My Head"!!

*  Before moving I sold a little over 2,500 LPs to a local audio store.  That included a lot of good jazz.  But at my age how much will I still have time to listen to?  I did move over 1K LPs, including a few hundred jazz favorites, so hope to begin enjoying those soon,  

@rok2id 

<<Slavery was the best thing that ever happened to Black folks.
(got them out of Africa) (a green card was not an option in the 1600’s.)>>

<<Jim Crow was the second best thing that ever happened to Black folks.>>

Rok, unfortunately your words remind me of the Nazi flyers left on our front porch when I was a kid.  The depressing thing is that you'll never get it - as so many Americans never will.

The USA is doomed to never-ending racial strife.  It will be a big part of our downfall.

O10, it would be a pleasure to meet and share observations.  But this is the web.  Just let it be known we're "in tune."

Is this a political/ideological forum or "jazz for aficionados"

Forum etiquette; IMO.

The idea that, for reasons mentioned and sadly borne out many times previously, it is best to keep discussion to the stated topic of the thread seems to be a hopeless cause here. I do hope I am wrong about that. One specific piece of etiquette that, if observed, would help prevent things from getting out of control even further than they often do is the idea that any comment or music (!!!!!) posted is fair game for anyone to comment on. Sure, anyone can address another contributor specifically, but not exclusively. Seems to me that this why there is private messaging. It also seems to me that the purpose of wanting that kind of exclusivity in a PUBLIC forum is to, not only keep the dialogue exclusive, but to also make sure that everyone else views it without having the benefit of participating. Not cool.

orpheus10
My response yesterday was not in response to your posting which came up just before mine and which you responded to rok.
 my response was to your post of 10/6 /19 to myself.

And I echoe pjw's question " is this a political/ ideological forum or " jazz for aficionados"

frogman
Larry Young had a  short life and career. I have everything he recorded on Blue Note records, pretty much his best output. He was the first guy who comes to mind who broke out of the Jimmy Smith method of playing organ.   also participated ontwo cuts of Bitches Brew.  unfortunately his later output after 1970 was not up to the same standards mostly commercial output,  something he was probably pressured to do by the record company issuing the music.I'm featuring several cuts from earlier Larry Young when he recorded for Prestige or the new Jazz label .Some solid Blues:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjK76JXf9vs  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRqJ70umXpE
 

I knew Wynton played Classical, did not know he composed it also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTsAkAHMvf4

Cheers

Thanks for the Larry Young clips, nsp. Great stuff. I agree with your assessment of the various stages of his career. Nice organ sound on this early stuff; very “church”. Another favorite organist. Just plain fun rendition of this classic tune:

https://youtu.be/H2R3o35fA14

Ms Wright is awesome.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pGh7PkUV3A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcE0b_dddXY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R_Qk1AN5S4

Cheers

@nsp 

Ideally, this would be a forum to discuss jazz and jazz only.  But would you remain silent when someone posts this stuff?  I can't, and no one who gets jazz should either.

<<Slavery was the best thing that ever happened to Black folks.(got them out of Africa) (a green card was not an option in the 1600’s.)>>

<<Jim Crow was the second best thing that ever happened to Black folks.>>

What's disappointing is that I've been the only one to call Rok out on this post.  How can this be?  Get rid of the blinders and stop pretending nothing's wrong.

Keegiam, you are not the only one who thinks that such post is out of the place, but, the Rok has a history of such expressions, its better not to take him serious. If we would react on every such move, this place would soon end up beeing a place where we discuss jazz music. There is a good example about it, just few pages earlier. So, it can be sad, that perhaps we got used to it, which of course does not excuses us, but its perhaps a lesser evil in comparation to likely desintegration of forum in case we start to answer to each other on every such sentence that we might object. Since there are just a few people writing here anyway (there are lots more views, but no actual responses or contributions) maybe it is a wise thing to do.Personally, part of me sometimes screams with a wish to say few things, but I am quite sure that it could be also very easily taken as offense by someone, but to what point? Pick your battles where it make sense to fight them...

I simply love this version of my favorite standard . Nothing wrong with just plain pretty .
To my hears Galliano is a great artist .
https://youtu.be/9hjMisX997Y

In the Bible, Joseph is sold into slavery by his brothers, where he, by God's grace, is raised to a position where he is able to save his family. 

I have often wondered if God would again use evil to move Africans out of the African continent to other locations for His good.

In other scripture, God tells Abraham "Four generation later, your decendants will return here and take this land, because only then will the people who live here be so sinful they deserve to be punished .

What do you think this means for the U.S.? Are we reaping what we sow?