Schubert, Galliano is undoubtedly a great artist. How can one ever argue with “just plain pretty”?. Very pretty rendition of the tune. Loved it! Thanks. I loved how they crept into the melody by first just hinting at it before making a full statement of it. Beautiful!
And, what a fantastic and interesting example of the meeting of cultures: A tune composed by a Hungarian which became an American Jazz standard, as performed by a French man born to Italian parents and played with a Cuban cha-cha beat! Wonderful. |
An acquaintance who is shopping for a piano (not in this price range!) sent me this last night. You may find it interesting. Obviously not definitive, but interesting nonetheless and I definitely have a preference. https://youtu.be/mrB8IthgoRQ |
To start with , the boys in Vienna would be surprised to know their mighty Bosendorfer’s have a German sound .
Also it is a well known fact(by me) that God , the creator of music, has a special hour every day of the week during which great composers born in Austria or who spent most of their career there , to the mighty B factory fly, to infuse their soul into the present products before they leave the factory. Boys take turns and all , but normal seven are Beethoven, Bruckner, Haydn,Korngold ,Mahler , Schubert and Mozart. Back up is Brahms .
P.S . yes indeed, that little opening is both lovely and very apt to the piece .
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@alexatpos
Well said. I am certainly a relative newbie here, so your words are well taken.
Back to Jazz!
It had been awhile, but I pulled out the Jimmy Cobb Quartet, "Cobb's Corner," a few nights ago. Really hit the spot. Chesky Records.
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You always do ac . This old girl may have a few miles on her , but her engine is hitting on all cylinders !Boys in the band have good tires too . https://youtu.be/OOtUIMrJUyc?t=6 |
rok ,Riue is not a showman , he is a MASTER showman !
Singers were way off .
The MacArthur of music .
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Beegie Adair:
I like her playing. Very nice. Given her beginnings, you would have thought she would have become a country / bluegrass artist. Fascinating how life works out.
Cheers
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Frogman, saw documentary on tv, from Steinway factory (in lack of better term, as they are made by hand) and aldo the pianos are all made by same people with same material, they sound different, so man can choose one that suits him best. They have a large hall where the pianos can be tried before purchase. Fascinating stuff, but it seems that they (Steinway co.) are worried about the future. What about brass instruments, do they sound different ? (if made by same producer)
Keegiam, when posting, try to find the clip you are talking about on ytube and than share it here. Its much easier to hear it that way |
Speaking Of Master Showman, check the end of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwLABSm0yYc
Interesting Bolero and Orchestra. Not exactly Royal Concertgebouw, but wiki says he is worth around 44 million. I doubt if anyone playing for the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra is. Cheers |
"What about brass instruments, do they sound different ? (if made by same producer)"
Well, for some time already, I was going to ask precisely the same question...
Also, I would like to write something about (the differences among) classical guitars...when I find some time...
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"Pick your battles where it make sense to fight them..."
I like this. It says a lot...
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frogman good point about Forum etiquette. If you're on a public forum any participant should be able to respond to another's post. If you want to address that person alone then PM them.Nice" Misty "from Holmes.
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Each and every instrument, piano, brass, woodwind, guitar by the same manufacturer sounds different than another; although, same model instruments will have similar family traits. Sometimes the difference is very subtle and sometimes it is very obvious and every possible degree in between. The difference is “felt” as well as heard by the player and may or may not be obvious to the listener depending on hearing acuity. Top players often go to the manufacturer (by invitation) and try many instruments in order to find THE ONE for he/she. The differences are due to differences in the composition of the metal in the case of brass instruments (including saxophones) and the craftsmanship that went into the construction of the particular instrument as well as differences in the actual design of different model instruments from the same manufacturer. Brass needs to be burnished with special tools in order to achieve the right “ring”. Inexpensive instruments are made from parts stamped out by machines without the final hand finishing and will sound very similar....bad. With woodwinds...think about it and all the potential differences in the grain of the particular piece of exotic wood as well as other natural differences in wood. Its all mainly about resonance and the differences in resonance. It is highly unlikely that two of anything will resonate the same way. But, rest assured that the differences are very real and can be very audible and important to a player if not necessarily to the listener.
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alexWell said and I concur with your statements.
keegiam
I understand and feel the same about certain statements made on this website. But do you think any one person(s) is going to change the opinion of another person on this site. If you are so troubled about someone's comments on this forum Maybe if you really want to do something about it you should contact the people who run the forums.And as far as my wanting to stick to Jazz, that's my business not yours.
Have a nice day.
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schubert love that version by Beegie of "Autumn Leaves". Never heard of her before. She had to be in her seventies when that video was recorded. looked her up on Wiki and she's still going strong at 81 with concert dates.
Any decisions on the three piano comparison video? The guy who owns those pianos must be loaded. Just out of curiosity what is the price structure on those three pieces?
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$225,000 range. Bosendorfers up to $500,000 depending on finish. Unique instruments can go for over $1M on auction. |
rok, no doubt , in any event he won't be at Concertgebouw .
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Re. The Kid at the piano comparison was full of himself and wanted what he wanted on technical grounds , so would I if I had to play it.But I don’t , I listen to the piano from a distance and only care about the music. IMO , here is a better comparison from a humble and mature player who is fair . To my hears if the Bosendorfer is not more musical I will fly to Budapest , swim up stream to Vienna and eat the piano. No salt . But I could be wrong , I was once , but she left. This is no doubt my broken brain, but every time I hear a Bosendorfer , I think it is voiced to the human voice , not a machine but a living thing ! Some Great jazz players use them. https://youtu.be/T2GYYV8JSqM |
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BTW, I would not know the difference in a blind listening test between the Steinway, Fazioli, or Bossendorfer piano if each were played by the same competent pianist playing the same song on each piano but one of my favorite movies, the pianist, has one of the most emotionally moving piano solo’s IMHO, near the end of the movie (especially moving after watching the movie up to that point). Its as if the pianist is spilling out all of his frustrations, fears, heartbreak and sorrow that was pent up inside of him after hiding like a tiny starving mouse in a massive ghetto crawling with cats for 3 long years. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPrQdlrCzPYOf course Adrian Brody is not the "real" pianist that the movie is based on who is Władysław Szpilman. Szpilman really did hide like a mouse (jews) from the cats (Nazis) and survived. |
schubert after after listening several times to the young man playing the piano it was obvious that all three pianos have a different sound in presentation. My preference was the Bosendorfer. although the Steinway sounds beautiful I felt the Bosendorfer was much Fuller and richer sound and able to better convey emotion of the person playing. Hands down that would be my choice although I would have to sell my house to buy either one. Lol .The Fazioli I didn't feel was at the same level as the other two IMO. Others May differ.
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schubertI take that back. I didn't mean to say the Fazioli was not at the same level but that I felt the sounded produced was not as appealing to me as the other two.Will listen to the second video you posted tomorrow.
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"$225,000 range. Bosendorfers up to $500,000 depending on finish. Unique instruments can go for over $1M on auction." Wow, this is crazy...like $791,500 is crazy for Eric Clapton’s acoustic guitar. It is mostly the name (the brand) that you are paying (in these extreme prices of course). So, even-though the prices are exaggerated, at the classical guitar the price matters. "Luckily", I am talking here about the guitars range $5000 to $18,000. Usually (but that’s not the rule), the higher the price, the better the guitar. It depends of course on what are you looking for. This brings us to what fro has mentioned “ Top players often go to the manufacturer (by invitation) and try many instruments in order to find THE ONE for he/she”. Can’t be truer, imho, any instrument just does not fit to anyone. The best guitar is actually THE ONE that suit You the most. In size, in sound, in playability, how it resonates, etc… I will try to be as short as possible. The used material and the construction of the guitar is where the guitars mostly differ (from the same producer). The top of the guitar usually comes in cedar (produces darker, warmer, "full" sound which I prefer) or spruce (produces sharper, brighter and more clear, joyful sound). In the guitar construction it’s the bracing system that matters. It is the name given to the wooden structure that is placed under the soundboard (inside the guitar) which purpose is to reinforce it. Bracing system is very complex and it goes beyond the role of just a pure structural support. Thanks to different bracing (there are many types), the guitar will respond in different ways and will produce different sound. Bracing actually influences/controls the vibration of the strings. Why the guitar needs reinforcements of these kind at all? Well, guitar top’s differ not just in material but also in the thickness of the top. When the top is made so thin that is on the edge of the collapse, with just enough bracing (reinforcement) to keep it from breaking, they say that the sound is in this case the best one. Wouldn’t know that but lighter guitars do sound to me nicer because the thinner top transmits the sound of the strings in more powerful way into soundboard vibration and you get a guitar with bigger volume, and faster string response. I see this as if the communication between the vital parts is going smoothly. Meaning, the guitar will respond well to both, the aggressive and the gentle right hand techniques. This soundboard vibration and how the guitar resonates is how the guitar gets it’s character. There are, I would like to call them “working horse” guitars and guitars with character. The first ones will do the work well but will not impress you (no charm there), the second one will move you in many ways (as written above, in sound, in playability). Astonishing difference. There are more things that also differ on the guitar: the string height (action), the thickness of the neck (can surprisingly influence on left hand positioning), the position/location of “wolf notes” (some notes are a bit louder, more clear and better defined. Some not - “wolf notes”), etc, etc, there are much more to say… Also, since the material is wood, the wood is alive and reacts on weather conditions (humidity) and can sound surprisingly different in different weather conditions. The age of the material (wood) also differs and affects the sound. So, although the guitar might look simple, it is actually a complex instrument. Especially if you are looking for the good guitar, there are plenty of facts on which you have to pay your attention on. And the conclusion is, due to all the things that are written above, even the same type of the guitar, from the same producer (especially if it’s hand-made), does not have to sound necessarily the same. |
Dam , you're pretty smart lady !
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Waiting for my connecting flight and was about to send and saw mary_jo’s excellent post. To add to it and perhaps of interest to some. Long 😱:
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On a long airplane flight with some time for a few further thoughts on the issue of differences between instruments. Btw, re the comparison done by “the kid”, my favorite SOUND was from the Bösendorfer. I stressed “sound” because there was nothing special about the music making from the player himself. That particular comparison was interesting because it included the Fazioli, an instrument that has gained quite a bit of notoriety recently; especially considering the fact that it is such a new company (only about 40 years). Considering all the good press and feedback from players that this brand has been getting I was surprised that, for me, it came in a distant third in the comparison. On the excellent comparison that Schubert posted, which did not include the Fazioli, I was less decided as to which piano sound I liked best. I did not like the Yamaha at all and vacillated between the Steinway and the Bosendorfer. I loved the Bosendorfer’s clarity and power, but there was something uniquely beautiful about the sound of the Steinway (I’ll take a little salt with that; sea salt, please 😊). All this goes to why further thoughts and also relates to my earlier comment re the sound of instruments in response to Alex’s earlier question.
Every instrument has a certain “built-in” sound quality that will manifest itself to varying degrees no matter who the player is and varies due to who the player is; in part because it will also have particular and unique response characteristics. All this for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post. More generally speaking, each brand of instrument will have certain sound qualities as well as certain specific response characteristics unique to that brand. Of course, there is variability within different samples of the same model instrument, but the “family resemblance” will always be there. Now is where it gets really interesting:
Each player will also have certain “built in” sound characteristics. Every player has a different physical makeup; and, as a hopefully interesting aside, this relates to some of what the audiophile in us deals with as concerns issues of resonance and the “tuning” of an audio system. Just as the supporting surface that a turntable sits on becomes part of a turntable and subsequently affects the sound of the turntable; or, the way that hard cones vs soft squishy footers underneath your preamp also impact the sound, when a musician strikes a piano key or holds and blows into a trumpet, the musician and his unique physical makeup becomes part of the instrument itself and affects the resulting sound. Of course, and obviously more importantly, there is also the “touch” and the musical intent of the player which is how a musician “shapes” the sound. It then becomes easier to understand why the unique response characteristics of each instrument (“action” in the case of pianos) suits or is preferred by a particular player more so than others. Also why there is no universal “best” instrument when dealing with different instruments of extremely high pedigree. IMO, an instrument cannot be more “musical” than another of similarly high pedigree; the player can be musical. The instrument, for all the reasons mentioned, can be more synergistic for a particular player than some other instrument. Preference for a particular family sound (brand) by listeners is a personal preference. For a musician, when a particular family sound and response characteristic mixes with that particular player’s inherent sound, approach and artistic intent in a synergistic way does the result cross over into the realm of the musical.
Rubalcaba sounds fabulous on the Bosendorfer; it suits him very well. So did Oscar Peterson, another player with great power and clarity of tone. I recently posted a clip of the Bill Evans trio with Pepper Adams playing “Three Little Words” as an example of Adams as sideman. I don’t know if anyone noticed, but Evans was playing on a Bosendorfer; the first time that I have noticed that. Every time that I heard him live at the Vanguard he was playing the club’s Steinway. I don’t know what he played on all his recordings, but I have no reason to believe that they were not Steinways. What I do know is that on that clip, before I noticed that Evans was playing a Bosendorfer, I noticed that his sound was more brilliant than the somewhat covered and more gentle tone that I associate with his playing; sounding less introspective. Better? Worse? He was always great, but it did sound slightly less like Evans to me.
Nice way to pass the time; “Rocketman” was disappointing ☹️. Best to all.
Sent from my iPhone
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Austrians are Germanic, but they are not as blunt and are more laid back then Germans . Stefan Mendel is quite high up on the European chamber music ladder. I can’t read his mind, but his comment about the Steinway
treble harmonics was the way an Austrian might give a back handed compliment . Before it happened I knew an Austrian would leave it up to you.
That CFX gimmick didn’t even sound like a Yamaha to my hears . Guten Flug !
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That is very nice and educative post fro. What I haven’t added in the previous post is what you have written: "Each player will also have certain “built in” sound characteristics."
The instrument obviously can sound (react) differently in different hands. However, from the point of the guitar for example, if the guitar ain’t good enough, no performer will make her sound brilliant...
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https://youtu.be/Hreyv1zfQDc?list=RDT8JvzWyEL1c&t=2More than anyone else , in any genre., this is the guy I go to when I just want to relax and think all’s well in my world. Done at the Frost Music School at the University of Miami, which has turned out many fine musicians . |
Bud Powell:
I have that CD. Awesome notes that tell of a very troubled life. I hear a lot of Art Tatum in his playing, esp the frequent flourishes.
I also noticed all the tunes are very short. Seven of the 13 tracks less than 3 minutes in length.
Cheers
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Alex , that "Hawk in Germany" is an old-school jewel ! Hope I can find the vinyl .
acman , ditto for the Tatum " These Foolish Things " . One of a kind .
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Earl Hines, Coleman Hawkins - Live in New York 1965 https://youtu.be/qbca-f-fbdU
Unique recordings of Jimmy Smith,
Illinois Jacquet and James Moody on tenor saxophone and Art Farmer on flugelhorn, Kenny Burrell on guitar, Clark Terry on bugel and Roy Haynes on drums.
the Cannonball Adderley Quintet featuring George Duke, Dave Brubeck & his Trio with Gerry Mulligan and Paul Desmond,and the Charles Mingus Sextet featuring Cat Anderson at the 7th Newport Jazz Festival at the Doelen, Rotterdam, The Netherlands, 1971. ...IN COLOR! https://youtu.be/fZNC7sZS6qI |
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Alex, All good clips! I will have to watch the video several more times.
Enjoyed all the clips Mary-jo, Pwj, and Schubert ! |
Acman, thanks, glad you like it.
I have very few jazz albums from 70's, always thought that 'best' time for jazz has been already passed by then, but in fact all those guys are still quite strong. I cant imagine how they felt in those times, probably like they are in paralele universe.
I am curious, have anybody of you guys 'witnessed' the moment when jazz has 'lost' the contact with wider audience or it was gradual thing?
Or there was never 'wider' audience? |
In USA a form of jazz , mostly big band swing but straight up jazz as well ,was THE music of the nation from the 20’s to the mid 50’s .
Then rock started and within 18 months jazz was off the radio airways which was how 90% of the people listened to music .
As I was there at the time and only had a small AM radio , I grew to hate rock .Still do .
Kind of like you would feel about somebody who killed your mother in a car accident .
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