Jazz for aficionados
She has the perfect instrument, perfect pitch, and has perfect control over both. But you don't have to take my word for it, it's pretty much a given in the world of Jazz and also by the folks at the Metropolitan Opera. Notice in my original post, I did not use the word Jazz. She was much more. Cheers |
A personal perspective on Ella. She offered many elements of greatness, no quibble about that. But I never cared for one of her best known attributes -- her scat singing. To be fair, scatting is something I can do without in general, few singers pull it off to my enjoyment. So I know this can be sacrilegious to many jazz fans but Ella is not among the top level of vocalists I choose to listen to. YMMV. ;^) |
Received This Yesterday: Lester Bowie's Brass Fantasy -- I ONLY HAVE EYES FOR YOU Now this is what modern music should be. I love this CD. This is straight out of New Orleans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpiTwIK0J68 Has that Jamaican beat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJKalkdADaU They make everything sound like a dirge. Great. Maybe it's the Tuba. They may be in the Free-Jazz bin, but these guys are stuck in the past, which is exactly where they should be. After all, that's where the good stuff lives. Cheers |
We were discussing crossover of Classical and Jazz the other day. I found this last night. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38RAV0tqvvg |
I find a certain irony in the fact that eventhough Chinese made audio products receive so much attention (good and bad) from the audio community that the Chinese government blocks posting on Audiogon and access to YouTube. After six days in Shanghai I am now in Osaka, Japan where there are no such restrictions and am catching up on the goings on here. Interesting discussion and comparison of Ella and Sassy and thanks to all for the great clips. I find ghosthouse’s description of their relative styles and sounds to be excellent and spot on. No way I could proclaim one “superior” to the other since their styles were so different. Clearly a case of personal preference and while I enjoy them both I find Sarah’s singing more interesting and the sound of her voice far more complex as ghosthouse says. I love Ella’s singing also, but as in a comment that I read (I wish I could claim to have said this): “ it’s as if she’s searching for a tube of lipstick in the bottom of her purse at the same time”. As much as I like his playing it’s a little like the feeling I get when I listen to Oscar Peterson play. Great in every respect, but there’s just something that leaves me missing the introspection and character of some other favorite piano players. Rok, I know you’re a big fan of Ella as am I, and I find your reference to the “Met Opera folks” interesting since it was Sarah that was often thought of as having the skill of a great opera singer. She had a four octave range which was much wider than Ella’s and she also had great intonation and control, but made the stylistic choice of not always landing on notes squarely on pitch. I will concede that there are times (especially in later recordings) when her singing gets a little too ornate for me with a little too much character Anyway, two fantastic singers. Operatic (almost) Sarah: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4U6xJ0gKT9s Some favorite Sarah: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-RJ9PNYxr9Q https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fDePdW8aP60 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=prIb53T3IFM Some favorite Ella: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VqOaQgD_2KA https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P1d4NHsyQgs |
Mehldau: Nice enough music and playing, but where is the Jazz? I fear this is an example of things to come. Emotionless music. Reminds me of the singer in the Movie "The Fifth Element". Fascinating to hear, but who is she connecting with? Bach should get himself a good lawyer and start suing some of these folks. Cheers |
’Best Sarah’ and ’Best Ella’ were both awesome. The best? Does not matter, both are great. We should be thankful to have them both. There is the top three, and then all the rest. That’s good enough for me. I will say Ella is so effortless, as you alluded to in your post. Operatic Sarah? Man, she’s a great Jazz singer. The Ella clip with Pops was not available. What music are you playing in the Far East? Cheers |
Okay. Thanks. If I had to guess, she woulda been my guess. Your Fifth Element comment reminded me of a music scene from another movie. This isn't jazz either... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJKpYnMMKKM |
+1 Miss Holiday. Do find a way to listen to Ella with Pops; awesome! In answer to your question, playing your favorite: Stravinsky’s “The Rite Of Spring” 😉 More great ladies of song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xkAf2Jd7ehQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_bD6WSBVRsg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=txKoMPNqA7M Very different and beautiful take on this song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rcnj5AQKSus |
ghost, "Diva" is one of my favorite sleeper movies. Not many people know about it I don't believe. I was lucky to find the soundtrack on vinyl. frog, as I've mentioned, while I appreciate Ella's talents, she is not a top favorite female vocalist for me. The exceptions are the recordings she made with Satch. I've posted it before but to me this is about as good as it gets for a jazz vocal - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcMmVGrzpy8 |
Orpheus,if you are reading this, just give us 'proof of life'...hope you are ok Wynton Kelly’s, ’recent’ album, unissued until recently...from Boston... https://youtu.be/IxL8_YAjRrk |
Sitting here watching the Tennis Matches from Indian Wells,California, when the announcer, Mary Carillo, says, ........ "reminds me of something the great Jazz trumpet player Miles Davis once said"...... That was really an LOL moment. Nice to hear. She quoted Miles as having said, "always listen for what you can leave out". Cheers |
Beautiful performance of “Old Folks” by Wynton Kelly, Alex. Beautiful player and one of my favorites. Too bad he had such a crappy piano to play on that night. A player like that deserves a better instrument. Here is another live performance with a much better sounding piano, but mediocre recording quality unfortunately ...oh well. “Old Folks” is at 32:00. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5qSayYcdP8 Possibly a little peek into the personal dynamics that come into play between players during a music project. “Old Folks” was one of Wynton Kelly’s “signature” tunes. On this project he was a sideman to a leader of well known ego and opinion; same rhythm section as the above. Yet, they recorded Kelly’s signature tune for possibly the best known rendition of the tune. Perhaps Miles’ ego was not as huge as it is purported to have been; or, perhaps his respect for Kelly was also huge: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W7QY-Kh5QMY |
pryso, I enjoy that O’day clip more each time I see and hear it. Great singer! Not prepared to say it’s as good as it gets, but certainly excellent. We’re lucky to have so many to choose from depending on the mood. Here’s another favorite female vocalist along with one of my favorite male vocalists (possibly my favorite if forced to choose): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1IM3weosOTY ghosthouse, Tim Garland is a very talented player who has obviously had serious study on the bass clarinet. Thanks for that clip; I enjoyed it. A very unwieldy instrument the bass clarinet is quite a challenge for any saxophone player to play only causally. I suspect he spent a lot of time listening to Dolphy’s work; and these recordings in particular. Of the five versions the Copenhagen concert is generally considered the best. “Let the bass clarinet play” indeed! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VD-s3des8VU |
ghosthouse Thanks for the bass clarinet Bill Bruford you tub e post. Bass clarinet is a favorite of mine in jazz music. I have a lot of bass cl arinet music I kind of overlooked Bill Bruford . Was familiar with his contribution to Yes and King Crimson and purchased 2 solo albums but lost track of him. I am going to purchase this album after listening to several other cuts. I have also been listening to Soft Machine anoth er jazz rock group again. nsp |
Not to divert too much but this was the first version of "Old Folks" I heard as this album was an early jazz purchase for me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLUP9-126nk I too enjoy the sounds of the bass clarinet. But I never found many recordings. One I had early on but somehow it disappeared over the years was Herbie Mann's "great ideas of western mann". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tghZxiWdZYg |
@nsp You are very welcome. I love the tone of bass clarinet. Much preferred over the standard B-flat instrument. I played both years ago...not very well, mind you. Wish I’d taken opportunities with the bass clarinet more seriously; "Youth is wasted on the young"...a poster child here. Anyway, other than Dolphy and now Tim Garland (multi-instrumentalist in a late incarnation of Bruford’s "Earthworks") who else is there to check out? BTW - am familiar with Soft Machine. Got a boxed set of several CDs (Amazon UK). Had 5 years ago. That is still the one I appreciate the most. Pryso - Herbie Mann...gosh only thing I know of him is that hot disco flute sound he had going in the ’70s. I’ll quickly confess to being more of a jazz dilettante than aficionado...but a committed one! Don’t tell O (actually, I already have). Where is that cat anyway?! Random Acts of Happiness is very good. Excellent compositions and musicianship. Sonics are exceptional...especially given it is a live recording. Another Bruford I recently found and bought: If Summer Had It’s Ghosts (Bruford/Towner/Gomez). Worth checking out but no bass clarinet on this one...no reeds. Different style than Random Acts. Whatcha do get is some great piano by Ralph Towner! (along with his always excellent acoustic guitar work). His piano work kind of surprised me...it’s very good; I didn’t realize he was that accomplished. Also, starting to be become a bit of a Eddie Gomez fan. Love his nimble, melodic work on this album. He’s well recorded on it too. Frogman - your input always valued. Bruford fired his original reed player to give Garland a spot. Quality will tell, I guess. Will have to check out the Dolphy performance. He is still a stretch for me but I admire the heck out of him. Maybe one day he’ll click for me. Thanks to all for the comments and input. |
Frogman, great recordings. There is one other allbum with rerording that is ’rediscoverd’ that I have posted here,not so long ago, with both W. Kelly and W.Montgmery, in case you have missed it. ’Smokin’ in Seattle’ from 1965. https://youtu.be/Msz2RO-mwq8 Ghosthouse, here are two albums that Herbie Mann recorded with Bobby Jaspar, I like them both ’Flute Souffle’ from 1957. https://youtu.be/o7LwCm0iXR4 ’Flute flight’ also from that year, little bit different line up https://youtu.be/l_baETClbqA ...and perhaps, something very different, Herbie Mann with Bill Evans ’Nirvana’ from 1961. https://youtu.be/Fjab84IfpR8 |
Have you guys hacked my Amazon account? I got this a few days ago, along with the three CDs of Monk: The London Collection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1BcOq_tbpo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pksfz8uycLk This was recorded in Holland about 4 weeks before Dolphy died in Berlin of Insulin shock. Too much insulin in the blood. (low blood glucose coma). The rhythm section is a French group. The bass Clarinet sounds ok, I like it in classical music, but in Jazz it sounds like an anemic Sax. I don't see the purpose of it in Jazz. Same with the Violin. Now, this guy can play the Flute. None of that spitting and sputtering and buzzing stuff here. The tone is perfectly round and clear. Very good. My over all impression was that this was just something to do while in Europe. He stayed over after the tour with Mingus, to be with his fiancée. He should have kept Mingus' rhythm section. Cheers |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQZ1c3ixoa4 rok2id 2 Nice cuts from Dolphy. I don't think I have this album. Yes it was a pick up date but it's pretty much all about Eric. Great musician gone way too soon. Played and recorded with both Mingus and Coltrane and a few solo dates. I recommend Dolphy's The Illinois Concert w/Hancock . I have to disagree with your assessment of bass clarinet in jazz- it has a great tonality and goes deeper than a clarinet. Probably just a matter of taste. You are right about his flute playing. I don't always like flute playing in jazz but Dolphy is great. |
ghosthouse Here is Bob Mintzer playing bass clarinet on a chesky cd release "the Body Acoustic". Nice cd which is drummerless allowing all players to be heard clearly. It defies categorization not jazz not rock . It sets up a groove and is mellow. Mintzer plays bass clarinet on all cuts.I tried to play clarinet as a youth with no success it's tough to get a sound out of that instrument. I play piano now. More to follow. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kvTgUA3Nfck Also check out Marcus Miller live concert http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hql_zpc2OTE Another Bob Mintzer bass clarinet live cut: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qVc_cmvMVme |
nsp - Thanks for the suggestions and additional video. Ah...of course, Bob Mintzer. I've been enjoying the Yellowjackets' Timeline album quite a lot recently. Was totally overlooking Bob Mintzer on bass clarinet. Unfortunately, the Bob Mintzer live cut you provided is unavailable (in the US?). I couldn't view it, in any case. Wow...Marcus Miller. Another bass clarinetist I know nothing about (not that big a surprise, really). His beautiful tone really grabbed me with just the first few notes. I'm not that big on the "jazz standards" but was really liking things until Mr. Sanborn made his entrance (physically and musically). Totally wrecks the "mood" of the performance - or so I think. We will continue to persevere in our pursuit of Eric Dolphy. rok & alex - Thanks for the flute suggestions. Frogman - The Dolphy solo performances of "God Bless The Child" you linked to reminded me of Bach's works for solo violin. There's a purity and distillation to essence in his performance. |
All this bass clarinet info has been enlightening. Yes, taste is personal but I do see its place in jazz. In many examples I'm drawn in by the rich tonalities, similar to but not the same as the bari sax. I had no idea so much was available, so thanks to all who posted links. In particular, not sure how I missed so much Dolphy, but I don't have a single album with him as the leader. A couple of Mingus albums but I'm not sure what else as a sideman? |
pryso, if one can only have one album with Dolphy as leader this is the one. Classic recording which is generally considered to be his greatest. Amazing lineup playing perhaps the most coherent (non-bs) example of music in all of “avant-garde” jazz: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ln8naZpOJ0o The first use of the bass clarinet in jazz was in the context of big band arrangements where it’s distinctive tone color can be exploited very much like it can be in a symphony orchestra. Duke Ellington did this better than anyone who wrote for jazz orchestra. His great baritonist Harry Carney was also a fine bass clarinetist and was featured on the instrument in some of Duke’s arrangements. “A Tone Paralell To Harlem” is one of Duke’s best known “suites”. Check out Harry Carney on bass clarinet @ 8:35: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k2x5ukuGPEE Bill Holman, another (more contemporary) great big band orchestrator featured the bass clarinet on his arrangement of the beatiful Jimmy Rowels ballad “The Peacocks”: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eKv91DFhgS4 Joe Temperley served as the low reed guy in Wynton’s JALC band until his recent unfortunate passing. Wonderful bass clarinetist: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M9uFP5vPSmI Another player with “avant-garde” leanings. Have never been a fan of his tenor playing, but enjoy his bass clarinet: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=akz87TT1c5w And, of course, the funkiest bass clarinetist ever, Bennie Maupin on one of the funkiest and possibly best “fusion” recordings ever, Herbie Hancock’s “Headhunters”. Love this record: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mZy7v_-ss74 |
pryso Liked Herbie Mann link you posted. Thanks. Did not know h e played bass clarinet. Most of his albums are him playing flute. I may get a copy of the cd. I agree bass clarinet has rich tonalities as does the bari sax both di fferent than the alto or tenor saxes. Dolphy has several cds on the ojc label titled Live at the five spot, a group he had with trumpeter Booker Little. The songs are long with plenty of solo space and Dolphy plays bass clarinet on several songs. The Illinois Concert is another good solo effort by Dolphy with Herbie Hancock on piano. ghosthouse Sorry maybe i copied the live Mintzer video incorrectly. Yes Soft Machine titles3-7 are my favorites although I have some of their later output and live recordings. I'll check out If Summer Had It's Ghosts. I like all 3 musicians, especially Gomez with Bill Evans. Here's a clip of Courtney Pine playing bass clarinet in duo. The album is Song the Ballad Book and he only plays bass clarinet. |
acman3 Thanks for posting that Courtney Pine video. It seems my attempt to post it yesterday was not successful. pryso frogman is correct Dolphy's Out To Lunch title on blue note is probably his best solo work.leans towards the avant garde a bit a real classic. frogman Agree with you on David Murray. No t crazy about his tenor playing but always enjoy his bassclarinet. I have the album you posted highly recommend. How could I have forgotten about Bennie Maupin? Vein Melter is my favorite cut from Headhunters. Another favorite Maupin on Neophilia from Live At The Lighthouse: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHThSADuleo From Early Reflections: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2y_iSXRAxlw Short clip showcasing tonality bs clar: |
Isn't it interesting how all these marginal instruments and so-called "Free Jazz" seem to go hand in hand? Looking for a gimmick instrument to play gimmick 'music'? Cheers BTW, we really don't need no stinkin' Bass Clarinets in Jazz. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhwTv9M8 . |
That wasn't Jazz. It was instrumental soul music. I do love Mr. Person. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F89Pu9m6JGM |
frog and nsp, thanks for suggesting "Out To Lunch", but a short story on that. A few years ago I bought a new copy of that LP, along with two others (Rollins and Griffin) on Blue Note at a local dealer. I'd read where that Dolphy album was recommended so pleased to find it had been reissued. But then before I broke the seals to play any of them I read comments online about very poor sonics with pressings by Scorpio who was apparently doing all the US Blue Note reissues at the time. So I set them aside with the intent or returning them, but became preoccupied with other things and forgot about them. Recently in sorting through my jazz catalog I discovered them again, but have been on the fence about opening them to play. So if any of you have experience with reissued Blue Notes pressed by Scorpio I'd appreciate any comments about the sonic qualities. I'm not expecting them to have the quality of the Music Matters reissues, but if they sound thin, undynamic, etc. then I won't bother. Thanks |
Grappelli has been playing violin forever. Long before he started playing Jazz. Back in the day when he and Django were together. He did not pick up the violin just to be different in the world of Jazz. Houston Person: True it's not Jazz, but I just happened to be listening to that CD when I read all the Bass Clarinet stuff. But it did make the point. :) Cheers |
You knew I was kidding about calling you out on whats Jazz, right? I should use the darn smiley face more. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEBYo-Ii-nI |
