Jazz for aficionados
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"Had Trane lived in Jelly Roll's time; we would not know his name"***** Well, we can never know, but I think genius always makes itself known. Maybe Old Jelly would have started be-bopping. I cannot think of any Jazz great that could not have played in New Orleans at the beginning. IMO, of course. Cheers I wonder who sells the most CDs today. Mozart or Stravinsky? Hmmmm |
Rok, every thing is sliced up in time; when you look at rings on a sawed off tree trunk, that tells you it's best years. I'm of the impression our favorite jazz is related to our best years. I believe our declining love for music as it becomes more current is an indication of our age, more so than the quality of the music. Since we can not look at ourselves from the outside in, it's impossible for an individual to judge himself. Today has been the best in a long time in regard to "new" music from the same time era. It's quite apparent that so much "jazz" came out at one time, that we could not have even known about it, much less bought it. I've said time and again that our present knowledge of this music is a result of current PC communications; I know I'm really enjoying it, and a side benefit is friends you don't have to feed or buy liquor for. Enjoy the music. |
Thad Jones was another great player whose greatness as an orchestrator led to under appreciation of his playing: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=plZL_5wCyOo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9X3fOtW0eTI https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hTFhcL-YrDU |
Frogman, I'm very happy that we are all on the same page, it makes listening to the music so much more enjoyable; we don't have to go from "salt water" to fresh water, and then back again, all my musical genes can remain in a constant state, in one remarkable period of time. That photograph of Thad Jones on the street could resemble Cottage Grove on the South Side of Chicago in the vicinity of the Pershing Lounge in 56, but I know it's New York because of the pigeons, they're only in downtown Chicago with the skyscrapers. The music is really in that time groove, and I can relate to it. The 1970 music is more in a Alvin Jones, John Coltrane groove; of course I'm speaking in very broad generalities; those two had a lot of influence on jazz, just as "Bird" had in the early 50's. No, I'm not taking anything away from the individualities of those artists, but how the music evolves. Enjoy the music. |
Rok, I saw a movie based on "time travel", and that's when I realized that nothing, and I do mean "nothing" could be more foolish than to play games with "time"; in the first place, it doesn't exist; can you touch it? can you bottle it? what does it look like like? Everybody measures it, but what is it? The "only" thing certain about "it" is that when the "moving finger" done wrote, nothing it writes can be altered one iota. |
Nice Frogman! Was listening early this morning and listened to this. Great Sunday morning music. Every time I play organ music my wife yells out " All Skate" and starts skating around the room. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMT01czdwFg |
It really was a remarkable time in music, O-10. Yes, that is NYC in the album cover picture and what an amazing place for music it was in 1956. One year before I was born and still is an amazing place for music; different, of course. I've enjoyed your recent posts for their open mindedness and even handedness; especially the comments about the evolution of the music. To not have that evolution as an essential part of the backdrop for any commentary about this music is to not really understand it. Thanks for that. I like your "fresh water/salt water" comment and would only point out that salmon (and others) can live in both salt water and fresh water. Moreover, and as we all know, they swim upstream to spawn in fresh (!) water away from the coziness of the salt water home base. Important symbolism here; I think. As you just did, films have occasionally been mentioned on this thread. Going back to that great pic of Thad Jones (and the pigeons 😊), you will notice, in the background, the theater marquee advertising the 1956 release of the film "The Seven Wonders Of The World"; classic and amazing documentary in "Cinerama" (1956 version of "IMAX"). I think its fair to say that we all consider Jazz to be one of the artistic wonders of the world. (The film is available on dvd and highly recommended) Thad Jones was part of one of the most amazing musical families. The Jones brothers, Thad, Elvin, and Hank were three of the most important players to play this music. Especially, drummer Elvin, I think.........but, WAIT!!!! .... I think I better check with our resident grizzly bear before making this assertion. I may have to interrupt his lunch as he eats the salmon swimming upstream on their way to FRESH water to make sure my comment passes jazz-muster...... Hmmm, I wonder if Jelly Roll liked salmon? 😝 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rxMtbeWRObs https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DHIxXtMeotM https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lFnHuWR5MsE |
Believe it or not, I had no idea those guys were related; too much talent for one family. Although I have enjoyed music made by them individually down through the years, I still didn't know they were related. We're keeping the music in Rok's favorite time frame, and while it's for sure the artists are not new, this music is most certainly new to me, and I'm enjoying it; keep it going. |
Today's Listen: Cannonball Adderley Quintet -- COUNTRY PREACHER Very nice CD, ruined by the presence of The 'Reverend' Jackass. As Cannonball would say, "check it out". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM1fkWdb7-E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0948NjaL3iI Cheers Time: When all activity stops, even at the sub-atomic level, then time has stopped. |
Great clip with Elvin and Richard Davis. Frank Foster on tenor; great player who for years shared tenor duties in the Basie big band with Frank Wess. Of course, can’t talk about music without time factoring in. ****Time is the interval between two events.**** In music those events are the pulses or beats and the interval is the length of time between them. Of course, how the player arrives at each of those events (beats), how the player "finesses" that arrival (length of time), is what gives the playing its feeling. This is why musicians seldom say "player x has good rhythm"; instead, "player x has good time". |
Feeling is what separates music from noise; it's that incomprehensible connection we share with other human beings on planet earth, that enables us to communicate when we don't share the same language. I am of the opinion that extreme "audiophiles" like sounds as opposed to music because they are obsessed with high and low frequencies where almost no music is found; that might also explain why they touch and go on this thread, and to further confirm my opinion, they never like components that expand the music, preferring those that can play loud at the two frequency extremes. |
If one wants to suggest that a "true" music lover should be prepared to have a very thick skin and deal with a certain amount of unfriendly and provocative "dialogue" just for the sake of participating in a thread about music, then I may be willing to concede the "touch and go" point....maybe. However, as I have expressed before, I simply don’t agree that the reason that other posters don’t stick around is lack of love for the music. I hope there is room in the discussion of this subject for a different opinion without things sinking to unpleasantries. I care about this subject since I would love to see many more posters here and, if we can agree on one thing related to this, it ahould be that, as with all issues, if it doesn’t get discussed nothing changes. In my opinion, based on my observations about thread participation here and, by participation in other music threads by those very same "touch and go" posters, the reason that most of those posters don’t stick around is not lack of love for this music nor because they are "extreme audiophiles". One only needs to revisit some ot the series of posts that the "touch and go" posters participated in and what was going on re the style of interaction taking place between other posters or involving themselves. I also hope that we can agree that there has been a whole lot of stupid and unpleasant squabbling. Moreover, and most importantly, there have been several instances when new posters felt demeaned or insulted for their taste in music. Personally, I don’t see just what is so difficult to understand about the reality that this can’t possibly be an incentive to stick around; love of music or not. Who wants to deal with or be around that nonsense? I would strongly suggest that every participant here be less "exclusive" and more inclusive in general attitude when interacting with others; not to mention inclusive about the music itself. Sure, there a lot of boneheaded audiophiles who have no feel for music; but, there are far more who are music lovers. This shouldn’t be an exclusive "club" for the "hip" and "knowledgeable" Jazz heads who are all too eager to proclaim what is jazz and what is not in a way that turns others off to participation. The potential of this thread is not even close to being fully tapped. My two cents. |
Touch and Go posters: We are touch and go posters on other threads. I post on other threads, but very seldom. If something grabs my interest, I post my 2 cents, with no intention of ever posting again. Most often my Post pertain to Polk Speakers, and they are ALWAYS ignored. I understand why, so it does not bother me. There are Jazz threads here that never last very long. What is the explanation for that? I think it's because Jazz is a small niche in popular music, and the type of Jazz we talk about, is a niche within a niche. Most of the players we talk about are long dead. Some folks like to talk about artists that they can go to a concert and hear live. Artists that are making new CDs and LPs today. Players that are currently active. There is nothing wrong with this thread. It's lasted a long time. We have only a handful of regulars, but that is better than trying to feign interest in music that is not real. Besides, I don't see anyone on any other thread going out of their way to keep from hurting someone's feelings. I can testify to that from experience. If fact, the first time we encountered each other, you called the moderators on me. And I was talking to a third party!!! The first thing the OP said to me was "Did anyone ever tell you, you are crazy?" Asked if I was still taking my meds. I was still the second poster to this thread. My point: If they wanna talk about Jazz, they will come. Cheers |
If you guys think that you (we) are the only jazz fans on this site you would be very mistaken. No one is suggesting that my suggestion would lead to more than a few more posters, but without much effort I can think of at least half a dozen new posters that stopped posting as a result of, or (to be as fair as possible) after some episodes of bs here. Wether they would have stayed long-term we may never know; however, even if I am mistaken, isn’t more civil interaction a desirable thing either way? You guys can continue to ignore this issue and even very recent examples of what I’m talking about, but it doesn’t change the facts and their possible ramifications. Too bad. Perhaps on some level the real wish is that this remain exclusive. Doubly bad. |
The Frogman: What do you suggest we do? I think everyone will do whatever you think we should do to get more posters. Often I will view a music thread where the question is "what is the best release for 2016", or "name your favorite this or that." You know, just fun stuff. I read every response. Maybe even 20 or 30. And most of the time I do not recognize not even ONE group by name. They are all well known to all the other posters. I see a lot of " +1 for so&so." etc... Well, I think this works in reverse. When the we post Grant Green, how many viewers do you think say to themselves, " who the hell is Grant Green?? " Or Kenny Dorham? These young guys were raised on the likes of Diana Krall. Nothing wrong with that, just saying. But count me in on any attempt to attract new members. Cheers |
After upgrading my "analog rig" I also have to redo the LP's to my play list in order to get full benefit; that's what I'm doing now. I've got quite a few Pat Metheney records that look brand new, and I don't know what they sound like; that's a bad sign. It means playing that record is a waste of time, because I'm not going to add it to the play list; especially since I haven't heard or played it in years. Today, I've heard a number of records that will be added to the play list that I don't own yet; all of those records happen to be "jazz jazz". I also subscribe to "Stereophile" because they practically give me the magazine. I think I bought 1 CD in 20 years, and don't even play that one. That lets you know how successful I've been in finding music there. The best way for me to select music is to let the music select me. "I don't fight the feeling", and experimentation is out of the question, this means I'm walking a well worn path to success; no more wasted money. ( I've got way too many records taking up good shelf space, that need the boot) "What possessed me to buy that record"? is what I'm asking myself over and over. The best path to success is "what ever works, and this is what's working" Enjoy the music. |
Well, alright then. Just my own personal approach to this stuff, but I see no value in audiophile bashing, nor Stereophile bashing which only serves to pump ourselves up and set ourselves up for biases that only narrow our own openness to what's out there. All of the following are the Stereophile "Records To Die For -2017" list which covers all genres: I continue to feel that the importance of the big bands in the history of this music has not been given its due on this thread. This collection was given to me as a 40th bday present by a friend. Fantastic collection: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wl6opAiSAwg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wWGUI2I066g https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5DODRWWs-k Fast forward a few decades to the great Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Ochestra's debut recording: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=RDfHDX4Ds5Kp0¶ms=OALAAQE%253D&v=fHDX4Ds5Kp0 The only Hank Mobley record that I don't own. I have no good reason for that oversight, but glad Stereophile reminded me that I need it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IU_W_4jAACE https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLrndCwx3CtWPc0z2GjIQf-WY8a20EvaRB¶ms=OAFIAVgD&v=KSt6_p... https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLrndCwx3CtWPc0z2GjIQf-WY8a20EvaRB&v=xCrChuzeM24 My wife is a big country music fan. I just ordered this for her after reading the article. I hope she doesn't change the locks on the door ☺️: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tTjfw2Ovqh4 |
I have the Basie and Thad Jones sets. Will get the Mobley. Found it on Amazon, one of those 4 greatest CDs for the price on one. Has Message and 2nd Messages etc.... Hank Williams Jr: I liked his Father. My country taste run towards church and gospel music. Esp Blue grass. One of my most loved Blue Grass songs is 'On The Old Kentucky Shore' sung by Joan Osborne and Ricky Skaggs. The CD is 'Ricky Skaggs & Friends Sing the Songs of Bill Monroe. I Can't find it on youtube. Here is one of my favorites I could find: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdPGDBZdXuk Will give my 2cents on Basie and Jones later today. Cheers |
Frogman, as you know, that comes out every year and I usually have almost all of them that I want, (that hasn't changed) although this year has a better selection than most. When I mentioned "Stereophile" I was referring to the monthly selection of jazz albums. That's when they focus on "new" jazz as opposed to the best that's already in one's collection. Just setting the record straight. BTW, I don't have that Hank Williams Jr. either, but now that you're recommending it, I'm sure it's something special. Enjoy the music. |
Thank you for the vote of confidence O-10, but I am not sure that I am prepared to recommend the Hank Williams Jr. recording. I do like Hank Williams Jr, but make sure that you listen to it on YouTube before purchasing. I just thought that particular song was hysterical and would be right up my wife’s musical alley and her, let’s just say, unique musical tastes 🙄 The others I definitely recommend. |
Instead of posting records from my collection, I'm going to post "Records to die for" from the selected collection of "Stereophile" writers, that are not in my collection, and we can get your opinion of R2D4 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=635LnyveWi8 I won't give my opinion of any of these records, I want your unbiased opinion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZfWZCENO3o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXlaXbI0Eqg Without giving my opinion, I will say none of these records are "stereotypical", which is one of my favorite words of derision. Enjoy the music. |
Orpheus, I have no idea, why there aint more participants on ’our’ part of forum. From my experience I can say that Frogman could be right, I remember when the tone and words written here made me make a long pause.... Than again, now I tend to look to funny side of some of the posts, so instead of making me wonder about one’s sanity, more often I laugh.... But, I believe that people in general should not take themsellf so seriously... Perhaps, with more empathy would come more understanding... In that name, one song that I like, its not jazz or country....hope you all will like it....Solomon Burke and the Blind Boys of Alabama....’None of us are free’ https://youtu.be/88mEX5zv7Jw This one is good too...Ben Harper and the Blind Boys of Alabama....11th commandment& Well Well Well https://youtu.be/RPn8ivGUVG0?list=PLEB46B84DA0CD65DE |
Francesco Cafiso: Loved it!!! Will check out his output on Amazon. This is a player I could buy. Maria Schneider: Esperanza Spalding: From the comments section of the Spalding clip page. {This isn't jazz, but prog rock/pop, kind of like Joni Mitchell.} {nah there's a lot of jazz in it. genres are lame anyway} Genres are lame??? Cheers |
Solomon Burke: Not much going on with the instruments, the voice and lyrics are the thing here. Solomon is one of the all time greats and one of my favorites. However, the lyrics, though well delivered, could have been written by the Reverend Al wing of the Democratic party. Put me off. Ben Harper and the Blind Boys. Loved it. Seems as if there are only three of the Blind Boys left. Sad. I will post some of my Solomon Burke and Blind Boys in a minute. Great Artists Cheers. |
I have backup CDs of these in case of accident. :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojAUGPZ39Dk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSq7HBJ7C3E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOU38qRJPok Cheers |
Rok, it's amazing you should mention Joni Mitchell; I got a record where she was celebrating Mingus's Birthday with Mingus, and I bought anything I saw his name on. Who knows how many years have passed since I last played that record; I'm recording records to the playlist. After I recorded that record, I deleted it. That's who I thought about too. I'm going to do this everyday, but I'll give my opinion last. Enjoy the music. |
Joni Mitchell was a close friend of Mingus's, and the record was a tribute. BTW, Ms. Mitchell is an excellent guitarist. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6k-_xNi0e8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnpyCEUESEw |
Beautiful clips. Not only is she an excellent guitarist (self taught, btw), she is one of the greatest songwriters of the rock generation. She writes songs with a sophistication and (sometimes) complexity that go well beyond her folk/rock roots. I love her songs and singing. Btw, that is Wayne Shorter on soprano on the Pork Pie Hat clip and Michael Brecker with a smoking tenor solo on "Dry Cleaner"; the great Jaco Pastorius on both. For the record, it was Mingus who invited her to collaborate on a project around the poems of TS Elliot. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aCnf46boC3I https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=w5782PQO5is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=igj20M84hbo |
Frogman, Is it me, or did Jaco decide not to lay back in support of Brecker, but to solo over Brecker's solo? If you could explain why Max Roach's use of poly rhythms helped the soloist, from a soloist point of view, it may help explain why Roach was so important to Jazz, although he was important in other ways too. I once saw Roach take 4 or 5 kids and teach them to play a simple pattern, each different, then he sat down and played the first pattern , and added the other patterns one by one until he was playing them all, those young drummers, and I learned a lot that day. |
The Tikiyaki Orchestra - Exotique; out of R2D4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYEVq0xhRCE Duke Ellington, different and nice; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PY4aVohFLZs Keith Jarret and Charlie Haden; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ff2HTMvfCU I have presented 3 albums from "Stereophile R2D4" without any consideration of my personal likes or dislikes; you be the judge. Enjoy the music. |
