Jazz for aficionados
Great Dexter clips! Not always recognized for being one of the very greatest and most influential, he was credited by Coltrane as one of his main influences. Always interesting, and sometimes funny, to connect the dots. From Miles' autobiography: http://www.dextergordon.org/blog/2016/3/12/miles-on-dexter |
O-10, Bird on tenor is a rarity and something that is not normally part of Bird’s most often heard work; thanks for posting that. Bird on tenor sounds like Bird. This is not a criticism in any way; Bird was great, perhaps the greatest: While the musical personality of a great player transcends things like equipment used, there are some things unique to each member of the saxophone family that, to a degree, shape the sound and direction of a player’s vocabulary. He was, at heart, an alto player and his vocabulary works best on alto. In a way, its a little bit like a great American actor using a British accent for a role (or vice versa). The great actors can pull it off and be believable in the role; but, there’s still something in the accent that becomes obvious when one hears a native speak the language. Great clip; thanks! |
Thank you for that warm welcome Ghosthouse. Maybe you can share that essay you read about AC; as far as TV, the impact it has had on society since it's inception is more than anyone would believe; it is reality, and the reality we're actually living is comparatively science fiction. (don't bother to figure that one out) Miles had an ear for selecting the very best jazz musicians for any group he put together; he had that in the beginning, and retained it all the way to the end; that's why these compilations consist of the very best jazz of the 50's for sure. This is music someone new to jazz would very easily miss, but this thread won't let that happen. Miles groups in the 50's are the very essence of what jazz is about; it's about all the musicians in a group contributing what they have to offer to a central theme, and the end product is more than the sum of the parts. I recall you wanting to know about, or hear more trombone I think; here is JJ Johnson on one of Miles albums. Many times a musician's best work will be with someone else, as opposed to him leading his own group, and having the album in his name; here's JJ Johnson with Miles on "Walkin". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrBM_PEDHKs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=redCHaBoris JJ comes in at about 3:22; Lucky Thompson has a sweet solo on tenor sax at about 6:00. This is one of those tunes that belongs in the "Jazz hall of Fame" because some of the best work from individual musicians appear on this one tune; listen and Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, thanks for cluing me in from a musicians perspective. While what you say is true, I didn't know who that was on tenor because Bird plays alto as you very well know; do you think you would have recognized Bird? "That new tenor man sure can blow!" were my thoughts. He appears as "Charley Chan" on the original album cover; but "Bird" by any other name is still Bird. Enjoy the music. |
Ghosthouse, the music I've served up, is without a doubt in every one else's collection since they are seasoned aficionados, and that's why I'm most curious about your opinion of this music. If you don't have it, is it good enough to add to your collection? The range of music called "jazz" is as wide as the Pacific Ocean; this is what Rok calls "jazz jazz", and for good reasons. These musicians are among the founding fathers of modern jazz, it's "deep in the pocket" as aficionados like to say. If you're enjoying the music, you're on your way to becoming a "seasoned aficionado of jazz". Enjoy the music. |
Hello again O... Appreciate the encouragement. Haven't started listening yet to the Jazz Showcase album you posted about. Might have found the whole thing on Spotify. Is this Jazz Showcase recording 11 tracks long? 'Round Midnight is track 4 on the version I'm seeing on Spotify. It looks like this Miles compilation might be one of a series of Jazz Showcase recordings. There are others featuring Sonny Rollins and Bill Evans (two different releases). There might be others. The label on the Spotify version of the Miles Davis release is "Fantasy" w/a 1998 date. Let me know if that's the one you are talking about. |
PS - I will look for that A/C essay. But it was a while ago...in print and not on-line. Not sure what publication. Thanks too for the trombone recommendations. What you are saying about TV seems like it matches up (at least in part) with what I think. It's defining reality for (some) people and it has become this weird mirror/feedback loop...telling them who they are and defining behavioral norms for them! Turning society into a bunch of narcissists constantly staring at their reflection. The major networks are the worst. I have to stop myself now before I launch into my rant about TV producers. |
That's the CD Ghosthouse. That's what I was speaking of in regard to TV. Everything people think comes from TV, and you can point out a reality in their own neighborhood, and they won't believe it. The TV has won, and I have lost. I discovered a very good blog that helped me to retain my sanity, but that was destroyed; too many intelligent people who were not deceived communicating with one another. We were a small percentage of the population, but the word was spreading. Almost everything worth knowing can be found on your PC. While it's game over at the moment, I'm not throwing in the towel. Stay cool and, Enjoy the music. |
Cjlover, I went to "you tube" and listened to one cut off of that album and thought it was nice, but I didn't listen to the whole album. On this thread, the custom is to post a link from "you tube" of the music you choose to be auditioned; that gives everybody a chance to hear and appreciate the artist you're discussing. Enjoy the music. |
Strateahed, Dexter Gordon is the epitome of "cool". I don't know how they do it, but jazz musicians I've seen on a casual basis often, seem to wake up that way; they dress cool without ever seeming to think about it. The first time I heard "Night In Tunisia" I was hooked on it, and have been every since. "What's New" is another one of my favorite tunes; it depicts the lucky occasion of running into an old girl friend you haven't seen in some time, but are still in love with; it's a beautiful tune and Dexter does it justice. Dexter announced "Loose Walk" and that's what it was; not "Blues Walk" as it was captioned. Here is "Blues Walk" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNR7822K_40 Enjoy the music. |
Wales, in The United kingdom https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc3mc0igHzU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JultKcPcKjk Cheers |
@orpheus10 Hello Orpheus. Wanted to let you know I spent some time with that Miles/Jazz Showcase recording yesterday. Didn’t get through the entire thing but did listen to the first 8 of 11 tracks. Will finish listening and/or relisten to all in the few next days. You had asked about sound quality and if it was good enough for my collection. The music always comes first for me and SQ, unless unlistenable/atrocious (like some Todd Rundgren I have), is secondary of course. I’m guessing the tracks on this ’98 version are all mono? I could tell it’s old recorded material but the SQ was not terrible. In fact there was a kind of purity about it...maybe because the stuff hadn’t suffered from a heavy handed engineer? Even though not widescreen PanOrama there was very nice separation and clear tonality of the various instruments. I had to laugh. At one point right before Miles plays with mute, I swear you could hear a squeak as he installed it. Don’t recall the track name. Volume dynamics are pretty wide I thought. A few moments were briefly sharp and peaky but not many of those. I don’t know enough about the various sax players to tell a Bird from a Trane but the sax work that people were saying was CP had a nice full tone. I guess that’s tenor vs alto sax maybe? Getting back to production, the other thing that made me think "pure" was that the arrangements seemed pretty sparse...mostly a good thing to my "less is more mind set". I see it on Amazon for $10 or so and feel inclined to get it almost as a historical document (there’s no way I’ll back fill my library and get all the individual Prestige recordings). Bottom line...THANKS. By the way, my neighbor came over and we spent a good couple of hours this afternoon viewing that ’85 Blue Note Concert at NYC Town Hall. First time I’ve watched the whole thing. IT IS REALLY REALLY GOOD (not that I need to tell you). My neighbor loved it and wants to get his own copy. The Freddie Hubbard show to an extent (he’s in so many of the combos). Have to say, was very taken by Woody Shaw’s trumpet sound on Appt. in Ghana. Smoother more melodious than Freddie, I thought. The other track that stood out for me was that Charles Lloyd Tone Poem performance with Michael Petrucciani. The last track Cecil Taylor playing "avant grade" jazz was a little tough (we ended the concert early) and an interesting way to finish the video. Jazz looking forward and not just backward, I suppose. Regardless, Cecil Taylor has MAD skills as displayed in that 12 minute closer. So there’s a "jazz jazz" update for ya. For a change of pace after the Blue Note put on that self-titled Liquid Soul that Alex (I think) recommended. Really enjoying that one. Thanks again to Alex. Closing out the evening now with Jazz Pistols (one a Rok’s favorite noise making groups). Here’s Smbh which could stand for super massive black holes but then again, maybe not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieiTrViJJQE&ab_channel=JazzPistols-Topic Later. Ciao. |
The "Jazz Pistols" and the music currently under discussion, are like two different shores of the Pacific Ocean. I'm listening to them right now. My My, how jazz has evolved. I like what I'm hearing; what else is important? "Liquid Soul" is fantastic; it takes me back to a better time. I had the good fortune of buying Cecil Taylor, and selling him for more than what I paid. Enjoy the music. |
O-10, that Jay&Kay album is fantastic! Had not heard it, although trombone playing acquaintances often mention that collaboration as one of the best trombone showcases on record. Great areangements with great energy and wonderful swing feel from the all-star rhythm section on that trombone-fest recording. I got a chuckle from the name of the record label, Fontana Records. Carl Fontana (no connection to the label) was another West Coast trombone giant that doesn’t get enough attention: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TRtI-1hyPBk I was less excited by the 1954 Miles clip. I like just about everything that Miles did, but that recording has a sleepy quality about it that leaves me.... a little sleepy. Percy Heath!!....WAKE UP!!! Don’t get me wrong, real pros at work, but a little bit of a "phoned it in" quality all the way around. I consider that 50’s, pre-Columbia records to be part of a transitional period for Miles and not my favorite period of his recorded work (60’s were). This is Miles’ version of the same tune ("Walkin") from the 1964 Columbia recording "Four & More" with one of my two favorite rhythm sections in the history of the music (Trane’s McCoy/Garrison/Jones is the other): https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wo5cio1KNkE 1967: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=teCy3ogCGiE Ghosthouse, did you get a chance to listen to Wayne Shorter’s "Atlantis"? Could be wrong, but it may be right up your alley. Rok, nice noise makers! |
Frogman, at one time Jay and Kai were inseparable; you couldn't have one without the other. I liked each and every solo on that "Walkin"; especially Lucky Thompson's. I have very little by him. There was a bar that played jazz on it's outdoor speakers to attract customers, and that seemed to be playing every time I passed; I don't know if it was the way that was recorded, or whether or not his solo had that "echo" effect, like it was reverberating off the buildings, but I liked it. I remember the name "Fontana", but that's all, he plays a nice trombone. What I submitted was the "original" Miles, the first Miles before he went through any transitions. That was the one his "Homey's" liked and still do. If you ask for Miles, those prestige recordings are the one's they will pull out first. There are some Miles I doubt if they even had. As much as his brother loved Miles, I would venture to say, he didn't even have some of them in his collection. Miles went through a lot of transitions; too many for the people I knew that loved him I would bet, but that subject never came up with those people. I just happened to be thinking about it lately; the people I knew, that he knew, are no longer with us. Since he mentioned in his book that he knew everybody would not like what he was doing, I think he was thinking of the very same people I'm thinking of; the one's he loved, and still loved him as a person, of course that had nothing to do with his music. It's just interesting trivia. I visited one of best friends, it was about 63, and he had every record Miles had ever recorded; that was before Miles went through his most drastic transitions. I think Miles was like "Calvin" and had a duplicator; https://www.google.com/search?q=calvin+and+hobbes+duplicator&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&... Enjoy the music. |
Frogman. re your comments about the Miles track (The Man I Love - Take 2, I believe) that O provided, pretty certain it’s the same recording as on the Jazz Showcase album he recommended. The opening segment featuring Miles’ trumpet is kind of "sleepy" as you say but, to me, once Milt Jackson starts in earnest at around 2:15, the energy level picks up and takes another upward bump at around 4:40. Your comment did bring to mind one somewhat related observation about the Miles Jazz Showcase - that being the performance tempo used on Track 8, Blue Haze. While there might be well respected justification for it, personally I found the plodding slowness of that particular piece painful (for what little that critique is worth!) I located Atlantis and had sampled it briefly but did not spend much time with it. It is saved and I will check it out more thoroughly. |
I got the same feeling on "Blue Haze" as you Ghosthouse. If it had been on CD, I would have bypassed it, but that was before CD when you had to get up, or tolerate the cut you didn't like. Not to change the subject, but I happen to hear this last night, and thought about that time before AC; which is the time depicted in this song. I also like the story it tells. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn8EtaxGJP0 Now back to Miles; I like this entire LP, never had to get up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn8EtaxGJP0 Enjoy the music. |
Orpehues, I would bet that I have mentioned Lucky Thompson' album 'Tricotism' before, but if I am wrong, here it is again. Its recorded in 1956, and cd edition has recordings from two dates that he made that year,in January and December with Oscar Pettiford, Hank Jones, Skeeter Best (never made any album as a leader, as far I know) Hank Jones and Jimmy Cleveland. On ytube some of the songs are listed under Oscar Pettifords name, so unless one knows what to look for, it might be a problem to hear above mentioned album. Some links, first part are drumless songs, with Skeeter and Pettiford https://youtu.be/qa2Hs-nSX0k https://youtu.be/n7gKcfKdeQ4 https://youtu.be/_XrhG2956Uo Than, compositions with Hank Jones and Jimmy Cleveland https://youtu.be/tCkhapYhebw https://youtu.be/RrwLp0tkckI https://youtu.be/j4jspWvxKMM Also I like his album 'Lucky Strike' from 1964. again with Hank Jones https://youtu.be/fkKneiZNNXs https://youtu.be/3694AGofxF4 Lucky Thompson also(among others) recorded several albums as sideman for Milt Jackson, all in mid 50's if somebody wish to hear more of his playing |
Alex, I know I've got "Tricotism" but it's an LP by Pettiford I think. The music I have by both of them is on LP's, and my TT is out of commission until I get a cartridge. I'm glad you posted these; especially Lucky Thompson "In A Sentimental mood" it has that "old school" sound that's good for reminiscing. That "Lucky Strikes" album cover looks familiar, but I don't recall hearing his "Invitation" which is one of my favorite tunes. Do you have those on LP's or CD's? Rather than buy CD's I think I'm going to wait for the cartridge. Can you get all those on CD? I really like the tone of Lucky's sax; it's definitely got a smooth 50's kind of sound. More Lucky if it's on CD, LP's can be hard to find. Enjoy the music. |
Orpheus, the one I got is Lucky Thompson, Impulse edition, recordings and line up as I mentioned them. It is on cd, as well as the 'Lucky Strike' Here is the link from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Tricotism-Lucky-Thompson/dp/B000J3IHJO/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid... It would be nice to have all those albums on vinyl, but many that I look for are not or will never be printed again,(for some, lp-cd, is the opposite way) not to mention the difference in price. So, the cd's are best solution, for me. I am not fan of pc audio either, I like to have a 'solid' feel to records that I own |
Okay, Frogman. Listened to Atlantis. I could hear why you thought it would appeal to me. It’s got a contemporary sound and I do like the chord progressions and arrangements. Jury’s still out for a final verdict. Have to listen more to see whether a connection gets made or not. Did a little reading about Mr. Shorter. Quite a prestigious career. Had no idea he was a co-founder of Weather Report. From Atlantis, Track 3 (The Three Marias) was familiar to me. Here’s another take on that composition (and where I’d first heard it). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IxLpCk7atA&ab_channel=ffrangcon Also, an interesting piece about WS and "the Dan" here: http://www.jazzwax.com/2011/07/how-steely-dan-got-wayne-shorter.html Thanks for the suggestion. Got some trombone music to check out. Hey O - I DO remember when you’d sit through a not so great track rather than get up to move the needle and skip it. Something similar applied to TV before remotes, i.e., back when there were only 3 network channels + the public station (Channel 13 growing up in the shadow of the Big Apple; deadly boring to a kid). That A/C article might have been in The Atlantic but right now I can’t view it on-line because I’m running AdBlocker...so not certain if it was the one I’m remembering. Keepin’ It Cool: How the Air Conditioner Made Modern America - The ... www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/...it...air-conditioner...america/241892/ Jul 14, 2011 - Air conditioning hasn’t just cooled our rooms -- it’s changed where we live, what ... But the effects of air conditioners reach far beyond atmospherics to the ... Many of the central changes in our society since World War II would not have ... The December 2016 issue of The Atlantic includes my article on these ... |
In celebration, I think I hit the Muscatel a little too hard. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH01FhqMdc8 Cheers |
Alex, I'm sure I have those LP's; I got them at a time the CD was unavailable, but my records are so disorganized that finding anything is a job. That was a very interesting story about Wayne Shorter; it's amazing how the different genres crossed paths. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dxchN_rsRY Another nice version of "Tricotism" Rok, we're both celebrating the same event for different reasons. Enjoy the music. |
Ghosthouse, "The Three Marias" sounds like fusion; I have to get into that "mind set" to appreciate it. I only recall slices of life without AC; hadn't really thought about how it changed us, but that tune "Something Cool" reminds me of when the neighborhood bar was the coolest place in town. That "track" thing was one of the reasons I quickly fell in love with CD; there were tracks on albums that I hated, could never understand why the artist even put that track on the LP, but I had to sit through it or get up. Enjoy the music. |
There has always been a bit of controversy around the spelling of the title of Oscar Pettiford’s tune "Tric(r)otism". I believe the spelling should be "Tricrotism" not "Tricotism" eventhough it appears both ways on various recordings. Here is another (studio) version of the tune by Pass/Pederson with the tune’s title spelled correctly: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TAhqUtgagUk Tricotism is not a real word whereas tricrotism is. Pertaining to the beating of the heart, it is a medical term for the presence of two additional arterial pulses for every heart beat. Since beat and pulse are clearly an element of music I think the answer to the question is obvious. Either way, great bebop "head" from the great bassist Oscar Pettiford. Another Oscar playing the tune: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jU6KGAzg8 ****Now back to Miles; I like this entire LP, never had to get up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn8EtaxGJP0**** O-10, is this a bad link? I like this also, but what is the connection to Miles? Ghosthouse, thanks for that link re the ST "Aja" recording. Wayne Shorter is one of the giants and someone that should definitely be at the very top of jazz artists to get to know. Not only was he one of the greatest players he was, perhaps even more so, one of the most respected composers in jazz. Very interesting and often challenging compositions: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hnqX9LMb71k https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xIC21Kd54JU I liked the Andy Summers version of "TTM", btw; thanks. |
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Frogman, that was a mistake "Something Cool" was supposed to be linked to AC and a time when the neighborhood bar was the coolest place in town. This is the link for miles, and it's from the LP "Something Else" which was under Cannon Ball, and every cut on that LP is boss, didn't have to think about getting up due to a bad cut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsz6TE6t7-A Enjoy the music. |
I had a rough night as you can tell by my spelling of "Cannonball Adderley". Since we have been straying occasionally from in the pocket jazz, I'm going to submit something by "Stan Kenton" that I liked a long time ago. This entire LP is nice late at night. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB1V7NF0FOA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4A2ieV-5g4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr-IYnXi2Wo Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, this Bud's for you, it's an orchestra, Stan Kenton's in this case; you will hear a lot of familiar names. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8JmdTJtlUY Enjoy the music. |
"The range of music called "jazz" is as wide as the Pacific Ocean...." "The ’Jazz Pistols’ and the music currently under discussion, are like two different shores of the Pacific Ocean." " ’The Three Marias’ sounds like fusion; I have to get into that ’mind set’ to appreciate it." Agree Agree Agree...yup it’s fusion, especially as Summers does it, so was surprised to discover it’s a Wayne Shorter composition (surprised because I was ignorant of WS's resume and history with Weather Report). Regarding getting into "that mind set"... Vice reversa and backatcha, O! I’m usually up for fusion but have to get into the OTHER mind set to appreciate the more traditional "jazz jazz" that most here seem to thrive on. In the middle of the Pacific, maybe this will represent something of an island to share. Make it to around 7 minutes and be rewarded with an excellent sax solo that starts around then. Hope you like it. Maybe others will too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lFYvNlrDyg&ab_channel=PatMetheny-Topic |
Ghosthouse, I got to have it. I go way back with Pat Metheney, live and on records. He's one of the most creative musicians I can think of. He comes up with music that's new and unique, it's not some kind of style; like this is "new music"; no it is simply "Pat Metheney's music". That sax was the "change up" that kept the music interesting. Pat Metheney is a master musician; that composition was cooking from beginning to end, it kept changing, but at the same time maintaining the musical flow of good sounds. I enjoyed the music. |
Glad you liked the Metheny track, Orpheus. I followed Pat closely back in the ’80s but not for quite a while since then. Acman’s posting of "Acid Kiss" from The Cuong Vu Trio Meets Pat Metheny got me interested in what he is doing now - this Unity Sessions CD being some of his recent work. Worth reading about. Culmination of a lengthy tour (150 shows if I recall correctly) with this same outfit. Guess they were "honed" at that point. It seems a strong recording all through. Another potential "buy". |
Ghosthouse, this is jazz that has progressed from "jazz jazz"; that's the music Wynton Marsalis and Rok want to hear until the end of time. While the music they made in the 50's and 60's is fine with me, the musicians who try to duplicate it now, come up way short; it can not be done, and it sounds like what it is; an imitation of real jazz. Although the new music is called "jazz" (you got to call it something) even the musicians don't like the word "jazz". They can call Pat Metheney's music what they like, and I will still like it; but Pat is human and I don't like all of his music, but I can't think of any musician that I liked "all" of their music. Out of all the current musicians, he's at the top with any other musicians I can think of. Enjoy the music. |
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that's the music Wynton Marsalis and Rok want to hear until the end of time.***** Along with the rest of the world. I would bet "Kind of Blue" still out sells the 'New Jazz' that has been inflicted on us recently. And that was released in 1959. That's 57 years ago!!!! That's what is known as 'the proof is in the pudding'. We should make a new rule for this thread. When singing the praises of certain types of music, you should be required to state how many Lp / CDs of it do you own. The Duke nailed it with the good and bad thing. People will be listening to Miles and Mozart and folks like that, forever. The soundtracks of movies and TV is a good place to find out what music is ingrained in this country's history. It ain't the Jazz Pistols!! Cheers |
Reporting from 'rest of the world'. Imagine if all the people would listen to 'jazz jazz' and not the Jazz Pistols, for examp. I bet some 'of us' would soon find some other stuff to enjoy.... I mean, all that 'plink plink' on guitars and 'doo boo daba dub' on horns, that got to become boring, at some point... So, I say welcome to listeners of 'Jazz Pistols' or even Kenny G, or house or mtv music Only with them around and their music, you got the chance to fully appreciate 'your stuff', what ever that might be... |
****The Duke nailed it with the good and bad thing. People will be listening to Miles and Mozart and folks like that, forever.**** Duke’s often quoted comment is one of the simplest and most "to the point" comments ever uttered about music and one that I (not meaning to be self-serving) have quoted here at least two dozen times. However, I think our interpretation of the comment is sometimes, in fact, "self-serving" or, at least, incomplete and can be distorted to buttress our own preferences in music without acknowledging just how inclusive, imo, that comment was intended to be. Let’s put things in some sort of context: First of all, while it is fitting to quote Duke’s comment on a thread about jazz, it should be pointed out that Duke was not the first prominent musician to be credited with that insightful comment. In 1863, while having a conversation with a colleague about ethnicity in music, the great Italian composer Gioachino Rossini is known to have said: +++ My dear sir, there is no such distinction as you suppose between Italian, German and French music; there are only two kinds of music, good and bad. +++ It is quite possible that Duke, being the student of Classical music that he was, was inspired by Rossini’s well documented comment. This simple possibility adds weight to the truth in the comment; a Jazz musician may have been inspired by the comment of a Classical musician. But, back to Duke and since we are quoting Duke, let’s quote him some more: +++ It is becoming increasingly difficult to decide where jazz starts or where it stops, where Tin Pan Alley begins and jazz ends, or even where the borderline lies between between classical music and jazz. I feel there is no boundary line. +++ +++ I don’t believe in categories of any kind, ((and when you speak of problems between blacks and whites in the U.S.A. you are referring to categories again)). +++ For further context let’s also remember that Duke was also the person who said: +++ Bop is like playing Scrabble with all the vowels missing +++ He was a giant and musical genius....and still subject to personal bias. I don’t believe that Duke was putting any style, genre, or historical constraints on the meaning of the comment. Iow, while I am sure he was a fan of Mozart and Miles, he was also a fan of Stravinsky and Bartok; composers who have been called "noise makers" here. Given all of the above, I have no doubt that Duke would find "good" music in some of the "new jazz inflicted on us recently". Well, probably not in "Kenny G. and house music" ☺️. Musical giant that he was, he understood music on a much higher level than any of us ever will and while we would all like to think that our own individual and personal scope of what defines "good" music is "the truth", the "truth-truth" (pun) necessarily demands a deep understanding of much more than what we like or don’t like. As always, nothing wrong with stating that any one music or period in music is our favorite or even our "truth", but to make that a general truth for anyone but ourselves without a more comprehensive understanding of music including its technical elements (like Duke had in spades) and its relation and relevance to the time of its creation is pointless. If we want to use record sales as an indication of "good" (I don’t), while it is true that KOB is the best selling jazz record of all time, take a look at this list of the best-selling Jazz records of all time (let’s also be honest and not forget the debates right here about wether KBO actually deserves the notoriety that it receives). The results of this survey may surprise some, but of note are the facts that, out of thirty four, fourteen are "Fusion" and Pat Metheny ties Miles with three, and Duke is nowhere to be found on the list. http://rateyourmusic.com/list/Rifugium/best_selling_jazz_albums_of_all_time__riaa___or_theres_no_mon... |
Do "all" aficionados consider this beautiful music? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTp9mjI04kM Enjoy this music |
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+++ My dear sir, there is no such distinction as you suppose between Italian, German and French music; there are only two kinds of music, good and bad. +++ ***** The good and bad part might be true, the rest is not. I think any competent Classical musician can see and hear differences between French, German and Italian Music. Of course we don't know the 'distinctions' to which he was referring. Cheers |
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If we want to use record sales as an indication of "good" ***** I was making the point that the old Jazz is still more popular than modern noise. KOB is no where near my favorite music. Not even within Miles' output. Any list where Metheny outranks Ella and Coltrane is obviously useless in demonstrating anything other than the sad state of Jazz and the people who listen to it today. I think Wynton summed up Metheny very nicely. Cheer |
Rok, maybe you should have specified "Aficionados" in regard to record collections. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb2w2m1JmCY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08jyOwx96Ig Here are some good one's for you. Enjoy the music. |
Ghosthouse, some of "Jazz jazz" is an acquired taste; some of early Miles for sure; I know I'm not going to spend time trying to acquire a taste for raw oysters, and I see no reason to "acquire" a taste for music; you like it or you don't like it, on to the next thing until you find something you like. I posted Lew Tabackin, that's something you haven't responded to, you might like it. Enjoy the music. |
Acman, I like smoked oysters, but not "raw" oysters, no way ever. There was a sea food place I went to for lunch, and had "Bouillabaisse" almost everyday, and I watched this guy slurp down raw oysters; he made them look so good that I wanted to try one, but never quite made it. Do you like "raw" oysters? |
I didn't "acquire" a taste for jazz, it's part of me and the way I live. I would have to "acquire" a taste for classical music, which I have no intention of doing. That's where I was coming from; there is so much music that comes under the heading of jazz, that it's possible to find music you like without "acquiring" a taste for it. Life is too short to "acquire" a taste for anything; either you like it or you don't; that's the way it is with me and jazz; some of it I like , some of it I don't. Enjoy the music. |
O - haven’t checked out the Lew Tabackin yet, but I will. I’m with you on acquired taste - mostly. Sometimes, though, people you respect make recommendations...food, drink, music, books, whatever and it’s worth investing a little extra time in something that might not immediately appeal. Of course, sometimes this just ends up confirming one’s initial reaction and better judgement! Funny, on the oysters. My intro to them might have been one of the best places to have ’em. Used to work (contractor) in Gulf Coast refineries and chem plants. Food in Louisiana some of the best anywhere. Go to dinner at Ralph ’n’ Kacoos in Baton Rouge on Airline Highway. They did sell to a chain but when the family still owned it quality was consistently good (but what’s a damn Yankee know, ’cept it was locals that took us). Blackened redfish when that was "in". Barman would shuck oysters right there and whip up cocktail sauce too. Horseradish, catsup, lemon juice and Tabasco...might be leaving something out (Lea & Perrins?). It always seemed it was the cocktail sauce that made them, though. After a July day in a plant wearing Nomex and the rest of your safety gear, a cold, cold mug of Abita Amber and those oysters as appetizer were very enjoyable. I will get to your Mr. Tabackin |
