It isn't the bits, it's the hardware


I have been completely vindicated!

Well, at least there is an AES paper that leaves the door open to my observations. As some of you who follow me, and some of you follow me far too closely, I’ve said for a while that the performance of DAC’s over the last ~15 years has gotten remarkably better, specifically, Redbook or CD playback is a lot better than it was in the past, so much so that high resolution music and playback no longer makes the economic sense that it used to.

My belief about why high resolution music sounded better has now completely been altered. I used to believe we needed the data. Over the past couple of decades my thinking has radically and forever been altered. Now I believe WE don’t need the data, the DACs needed it. That is, the problem was not that we needed 30 kHz performance. The problem was always that the DAC chips themselves performed differently at different resolutions. Here is at least some proof supporting this possibility.

Stereophile published a link to a meta analysis of high resolution playback, and while they propose a number of issues and solutions, two things stood out to me, the section on hardware improvement, and the new filters (which is, in my mind, the same topic):



4.2
The question of whether hardware performance factors,possibly unidentified, as a function of sample rate selectively contribute to greater transparency at higher resolutions cannot be entirely eliminated.

Numerous advances of the last 15 years in the design of hardware and processing improve quality at all resolutions. A few, of many, examples: improvements to the modulators used in data conversion affecting timing jitter,bit depths (for headroom), dither availability, noise shaping and noise floors; improved asynchronous sample rate conversion (which involves separate clocks and conversion of rates that are not integer multiples); and improved digital interfaces and networks that isolate computer noise from sensitive DAC clocks, enabling better workstation monitoring as well as computer-based players. Converters currently list dynamic ranges up to∼122 dB (A/D) and 126–130 dB(D/A), which can benefit 24b signals.

Now if I hear "DAC X performs so much better with 192/24 signals!" I don't get excited. I think the DAC is flawed.
erik_squires

heaudio

On a serious note I doubt there would be many audiophile CD players in the last decade(s) that are not reading ahead if not retrying and buffering on digital output rendering jitter at the player level non existent and if you treat your CDs in any half decent fashion like I assume most audiophiles do, then uncorrectable errors are rare, and as per previous statement as the data is reclocked, any timing issues from pipeline processing of the error correction isn’t an issue.Enter your text …


>>>>>One assumes that is pure speculation or maybe wishful thinking.

People still use CDs for live playback in 2020?


On a serious note I doubt there would be many audiophile CD players in the last decade(s) that are not reading ahead if not retrying and buffering on digital output rendering jitter at the player level non existent and if you treat your CDs in any half decent fashion like I assume most audiophiles do, then uncorrectable errors are rare, and as per previous statement as the data is reclocked, any timing issues from pipeline processing of the error correction isn't an issue.


Oh, and this thread is not about CDs.
Actually, no matter how good the DAC might be the damage to the audio signal still mostly occurs in the CD transport. The damage occurs as soon as the laser reads the data on the nanoscale data spiral. The damage is primarily caused by 1) the effect of external vibration on the suspended laser assembly, (2) the effect of thr CD fluttering during play (thus overdriving the laser servo system) and (3) scattered light infecting the data by getting into the photodetector. There are others reasons, too. Yes, I know what you’re thinking, “But I thought Reed Solomon was supposed to correct all that stuff.”

No matter how much you have in the end 🔚 you would have had even more if you started out with more in the beginning. 🔙 - Old audiophile axiom
P05 sounds like you’re using the DIrectstream, as am I.

I recently did some listening tests with some albums that were released at 16 bits and then later at 24 bits (both at 44.1 and seemed like the same mastering)

The differences were very similar to looking at a jpeg with different color depths. The 24 bit had more tonal colors than the 16. Very easy to hear for an experienced ear- the average person may not have been able to tell, or possibly only after someone pointed out the increased and more natural sound.

BTW both files were converted to WAV.  A 16 bit WAV or aif might have been better than 24bit flac.  I was using jriver and a very powerful Mac with thunderbolt raid storage and EtherRegen. 
I prefer my dac that converts all redbook to dsd. Also, this dac is fpga based which allows the developer to upgrade the dac for free a couple times a year at the same time increasing SQ.
It's not the accuracy, it is the lack of jitter and that has been possible and relatively cheap for some time. If you are feeding an async data stream, i.e. USB, wired ethernet, wifi, hard-driver, etc. then a basic oscillator with a decent power supply is effectively jitter free and rather inexpensive, practically free by audiophile standards.
It is when you start feeding synchronous data with varying data rates and trying to sync up two clock domains and you enter the realm of PLLs that it gets harder and a lot more expensive, and/or you get into techniques such as ASRC where you are beholden to the underlying math (and resolution) to convert between the two sample rate domains that performance gets far more variable (as does cost).
It doesn’t matter how many bits you have if you consistently and systematically can’t accurately stick’em in the right place where they belong.
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@millercarbon

I'm grateful for your thoughtful consideration of the facts and ability to share your great insight with all of us.

I'm so glad you aren't a knee-jerk reactionary that just follows someone he does not like to be a negative sour puss. Happy to see that those days are in the past and only the adults are left in the pool.

Best,

E
Over the past couple of decades my thinking has radically and forever been altered.
Sorry to hear. Still, the fact you were able to change your mind once, however many decades it took, maybe some day you could do it again?