Hi, I use to own the Krell 400xi and Krell S300i. I now own a new Pass Labs INT-60 integrated, and it BLOWS away the krell integrateds.
Is there Really a difference between a Krell 400xi intergrated amp and the newer Vandgard?
I currently own a Krell 400xi intergrated amp. It has 200 watts a 750k toroidal, balanced inputs, etc. Its very similar to the current vanguard intergrated amp in terms of similar spec's. I would like to know if anyone upgraded and if it was worth it? Is the sound different does it go lower, deeper, more of an open sound stage or should I just consider another route to improve what I already have.
thanks,
thanks,
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jafant - located in ABQ, NM. Operation called Herndon Audio. dave_b - couldn't have said it better, been a Krell dealer since 1994, while each Krell gets better and better, each is state of the art for it's time. That said, the new iBias amps and the new Vanguard integrated are their best yet. They are less smeared, more transparent, have even more control everywhere, more focused and percussive, most musical, and the largest soundstage ever! Krell rules! :-) |
Audiolabyrinth, spoke to Patrick and as I suspected he verified that all product is made in USA now. On the point of expansion to a new facility, that has not taken place yet. Finally, as to the sound....I have owned a vast cross section of Krell gear dating back to the mid 90's and I know that to my ears the new Krell voicing is more musical. Krell has also managed to deliver a clearer, more dynamic and expressive presentation. As for those that will complain about feature set's on an integrated that competes with separates costing many times it's MSRP? Well, I appreciate the exhalted level of sound available from a one box unit that delivers superior performance to just about anything available below $10K. |
The Vanguard is made Connecticut, not China. There is nothing wrong with the "voicing" of the Vanguard. It's the best sounding integrated Krell has ever made. While it doesn't have the massive build of the FBI, I'm sorry, it does sound better in EVERY way. It's far more detailed, has a larger soundstage, is much faster, less smear, way less blare and harshness. I repeat, the Vanguard is the best sounding Krell integrated. Some people like to get caught up in specs...but listen to it with open ears. As an aside, I compared my EV900e monos to the new Solo 575 monos. On paper it's no contest, but when you actually listen, the Solo 575 are far more listenable, have even more control in the bass, much more open and effortless. I even have a recording of EVO vs. Solo, no one has not heard the improvement. I assumed the 50k 900e would be hugely better, but if you listen, and put the specs aside for a minute, Krell has moved forward here. Both the Vanguard and the iBias line of amps are their best sounding gear. I'm a dealer, but I'm also a critical, daily listener and user. |
TAS Krell Vanguard Review TAS Krell Vanguard Review Above are links to Ken Kessler review on Krell Vanguard. In the 1st paragraph, "Made in the ..." So what's the concensus here? , older krell sound vs the newest krell sound?My preference is newest SS. NO CONTEST!!!!! This is golden age of audio where digital = analog and SS = tube to MY ear. |
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First of all, the Vanguard and all their current line is made in the USA! The older s-550 and s-300 and matching CD player were made in China. As for the musicality, the sound is actually improved. I've owned just about everything since the original FPB SERIES came out. I call it exquisite neutrality with world class tonal reproduction. Clarity and resolution is superb and personally, the bass surpasses the quality of the older design in every meaningful way. As for the 400xi for example, it sounds broken compared to the Vanguard. Not sure what you guys are smoking but it must be special. It goes without saying that a great power cables are required, as well as great speakers and source. Many mismatched variables can misdirect your assessment. The Vanguard takes forever to break in and is meant for the 2 channel crowd like me. I use a Krell Cipher and Krell Resolution 2 speakers. Cabling and PC's are MIT ORACLE! Also, the Vanguard is an updated design from the 400xi with a new preamplification stage and more storage capacitance, not a sea change. |
I finally talked to Patrick Bresnahan at krell, he said the departed x president bill Mckeagan is what happened to the vanguard, no pre-amp out, no tape loop, and ahh, the terrible voicing! , Bill did all this to attempt to save money and bill had the vanguard made in China! , my opinion, what a way to shoot your self in the foot, didn't save money, promoted a lack of sales, and more than any thing, no long term ownership! , have all of you seen the vanguard on the used market? , LOL!, there is no modification available! |
Krellman is right. I have been pretty much a Krell user most of my time with this hobby (although not having the illustrious models Krellman has used) and the current Krell gear is very differently voiced from the older Krell gear. The Vanguard is in this new vein - more musical and forgiving, less visceral. Most importantly, the traditional bass slam that Krell is known for is no longer there. In the place of that is a more textured bass. Highs are slightly rolled off (not such a bad thing with some recordings), PRAT is no longer as good and the sharp transients and leading edge is much diminished. I am referring to the older main Krell line (and not the KAV line which sounded lighter and leaner). The FBI would still have the older sound. It really depends on what you like. Just my 2 cents. |
dave_b1,550 posts02-11-2016 8:12pmSdcampbell, I had the Hegel home and I found it hard and flat sounding. A bit cold as well! I've had 3 Krell amps, last a FPB600. Familiar with 300i that I find 2D and hard. I have a Hegel H30 and it's light years ahead of the Krells I had. All Hegel I've heard is far from hard and flat sounding especially compare to 300i. |
I have owned several stacks of Krell gear dating back to 1994. This goes back to an original KSA-150, KSA-300S, a beautiful pair of KAS-2's, 450MCX's with KCT and Cipher. As far as integrated amps go, I have owned the 300i, 400xi, and FBI. I used a Vanguard for six weeks that belongs to a friend of mine. It is head and shoulders a much more refined product than the 300i and 400xi. It is definitely voiced differently from what the original Krell "house sound" once was. I know that herndonb indicated that the Vanguard "wallops them all". Perhaps is does wallop the 300i and the 400xi! Does it wallop the FBI? Absolutely not. I'm not sure what kind of speakers or other ancillary equipment was used, but the Vanguard is by no stretch of the imagination in line with the FBI. I've played both amps through Eggleston Works Andra III's, Martin Logan Summit X's, and Wilson Audio Duettes. As good as the Vanguard is, just how good it is depends upon what context you are using it! |
** Krell dealer disclaimer ** The Krell Vanguard is the best sounding integrated amp they've ever made. I've spend lots of time with the KAV-300i, KAV-400xi, F.B.I., S-300i, and S-550i. The Vanguard wallops them all. The detail, the lack of distortion and smear is SO much better than all of the others. It's also a serious work horse, I've run it in situations it was not designed for, and I was amazed at how it put up with it. Krell rules! :-) -Brian |
@dave_b Just wondering if the 400xi, which is obviously a much older amp, had low level hum and a high noise floor perhaps it needed to be recapped? Or at least gone over by a tech? I realize you got it just for the shootout and might not care to go to the trouble, but sounds like it wasn't performing up to spec possibly. |
I have a close friend who has been using a Krell integrated amp for about 15 years, and he recently decided to replace it. He asked for my input about which integrated amps might best suit his needs (MartinLogan speakers; large, high ceiling room with mostly hard surfaces; etc.). I spent a couple of days of research and put together a list of possible choices in the $5k-$10k range. After my friend evaluated the units on the list (which included Krell, Pass Labs, Bryston, Classe, and several others), he chose the Hegel H360 integrated. I think his choice was a good one, and you might want to place it on your audition list. |
Drum roll please....The Vanguard is the winner by a huge margin! I intended to keep the 400xi for a second system but it had a low level him in one channel and a higher noise floor than I remembered. That said, the Vanguard immediately strikes me as far more dynamic, open and refined. Very much like a cleaner FPB300CX amp. The 400xi seems anemic and flat comparatively. Clean and clear but lighter in it's presentation. Bass is phenomenal through the Vanguard and delivers better solidity to images. So, for integrated bliss, the Krell Vanguard delivers one sweet sonic treat! |
