IS THE MARTIN LOGAN Renassance 15A worth the $10,000 higher cost than the Expression 13A

 Why not listen to the 13A's yourself? Is there a store nearby that carries them?

Yes there is a store close by which let me hear the 15A's, which sounded great.They only had the 11A's which I could compare them to and there was a night and day difference between the 2. Just wondered if anyone was able to AB the 15's and 13's.

I auditioned both the 15A and 13A. The 15A has a wider and taller panel, with complete vertical orientation, so slightly larger "sweet spot" and perhaps a tad deeper bass. Midrange and highs essentially no different. IMHO, the 15A is ideal for a large dedicated listening room, although I can’t honestly say you get $10k improvement vs. the 13A. I was replacing ML Summits, so went with the 13A, as their size was better in my family room. Of note, I’m using Summit X legs on the 13A’s, to achieve an essentially vertical orientation (also raises the speaker a couple inches). I also have two ML BF210’s, which are now overkill given the improved bass performance of the new Masterpiece line.

   Sleepsurf, I am curious. I have Summit X's. Did you use the spiked legs on your Summit X speakers, and what kind of difference did it make in the sound? Thank you for your reply

Hello Sleepysurf:

Thanks for your feed-back. My listening room is 24' x 24'. Do you think the 13A will get lost in that space? What is the size of your listening room.

Thanks,
Sam

Scorpio... I purchased the Summit X spikes from ML for my legacy Summits, as Mids and Highs are very sensitive to "rake angle" (i.e. tilt) of the panel.  The default angle for Summits and Expression 13A's is ~5°, but using the Summit X legs, I've adjusted mine to 1°.

Samgar2, my family/listening room is 17' x 21' with cathedral ceilings, and adjoining 18' x 14' kitchen, so total ~6400 cubic ft.  You can see a pic here... http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=18721&d=1473094788

The Expressions would likely be fine in your room, but depends on overall acoustics/furnishings.  If it's a DEDICATED listening room (or Home Theater), you might still consider the 15A's if you really want larger scale sound (and appearance).  Depends on budget +/- wife or SO acceptance factor!

Thanks again for your comments. I am strictly 2 channel but like a large sound stage. That is why I am trying to justify the large price difference between the 13A and 15A. Yes, my wife would prefer the smaller speakers, however it is my man cave so her vote has little merit! These would be a second set of speakers in the other 2 corners of the room. 

What did you decide? I am going to compare the two this weekend.

Good   Morning Gadawg58:

Still have not made a decision, however I am leaning towards the 15a since I have a larger room. I wish I had the luxury to compare the two. Please let me know your thoughts once you have heard both. My feeling is that if I buy the 13a it will save me some money, however  it will have a smaller sound stage and I will wish I had the larger model.

Thanks,
Sam

I have listened to the Rennaisance's before. They are very impressive; and very large. Ultimately, your room size should be the main deciding factor between the Rennaisance and the Expression. In a nutshell....

If you have a fairly large room, and if you sit a bit further back, and if you want the maximum depth in soundstage/image, and if you desire that slightly deeper bass response, and if you need that extra 1 db of efficiency, AND if you have the cash.... then consider the Rennaisance.

If you have a moderate to medium sized room, and if you sit a bit closer, and if 24hz is deep enough, and if you don't mind the slightly lesser efficiency, and you want to save that extra $10,000....  then consider the Expression.

Also, bear in mind that the ARC technology is highly effective and is available in both of these models. It really helps to iron out a lot of the acoustical and room placement issues common to electrostats. I saw a demo of this technology performed by a ML rep at a very popular dealer in Canada. I couldn't believe the difference!

Hello Pontifex:

Thanks for your feed-back. I am wondering what you would consider a large room. My room is 26' wide by 22' deep. The room you heard the 15A's in, was it larger?  I would be sitting 12 to 14 feet from the speakers. Do you think the 13A's would seem lost?

Thanks,
Sam

Samgar2,  You can't go wrong with either speaker but with the size of your room the 15A's would be best.  I had the 15A's in a 18 x 24 room and they sounded awesome.  The 15A's have a bigger sound which is why i bought them and  I liked the way they look better then the 13A's.   However, they are a big speaker and my wife said "x!@#+^!" when she first saw them but learned to appreciate their modern aesthetics.  In your case bigger will be better.  

Hello Jonaiken:

Thanks for your advise. I am leaning towards the 15A's as I to like the way they look and for my size room they are the answer. I am sure my wife will scream, however woman like big diamonds and guys like big speakers!

Which (solid state) amplifiers should one use for these speakers?
1) ultimate amps
2) good amps
3) bargain amps

i have the 13a's .. love them...15a 's provide more of the same sound...the signature sound holds true from the 11a to 15a imho.

my room is 17 by 16 and they work nicely... 

these speakers are very revealing.. they will demand good clean electronics and wires upstream for sure.

i like to use solid state amps with tubed preamp.. i use krell/arc combo with mit wires

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis97d8i-martin-logan-esl-15a-gloss-black-nib-never-used-full-rang...

I am also tempted to get one as my second system.

Second the idea that you need the best electronics you can get with Martin Logans. They are very transparent and you will hear any money spent or not spent upstream.  They like power too.

I have a pair of 13A they are very good speakers, you can not compare them to box speakers the clarity the expanse is very good. You do need good power to run them and the better your system the better sound.  But this is true for any good pair of speakers, so don't get scared by comments above.Go listen to them.

Go big or go home. Actually, go big at home.
Kingsound King III electrostatic with twin Legacy Audio XTREME XD Subs in 13×23 room. GLORIOUS!

Don’t rook yourself by under-purchasing on performance.

Both reviewed by me for Dagogo.com

(Old thread; maybe someone now can benefit)

Douglas, I had to look away quickly from the gear you have reviewed. Lol

I have been reading some good things about the ARC DAC-9 . But it came out a few years ago already.

But==I do have an itch to upgrade my bluesound streamer/auralic vega dac combo.

What is an awesome combo or two under ..let's saaaay $10,000??

Streaming is really picking up steam for me since I tried Qobuz.

ps..I still love my M-L's.....with carefully selected gear it provides really nice sound. But--to each his own of course.

I own the Aurender ACS10 and the Audio Research DAC 9.  I've owned and listened to several music servers  and the Aurender is the best I've heard.  On top of that it is a CD bit perfect ripper also.  Two (2) terrabyte internal hard drives and it streams also.  The DAC 9 is without a doubt the best DAC I've heard.  The DAC 8 is also pretty darn good, but Randy in Santa Monica Optimal Enchantment convinced me to upgrade.  No regrets.

The music is wonderful.

By-the-way, if it is still posted, you might want to consider the Monolith III Speaker. It has new panels (a $3000) value using their new  panel designs (same as the 15), and electronic crossover.  I've heard the Monolith IIIs vs the 15s and I still prefer  the Monolith III.  Last I saw, they were being sold for $7000

enjoy

miniorl ,thanks...how do you connect both units? usb? dig coax?..what brand / model?..thanks

mike

mikepaul, I have not done comparison between the Bluesound and my current source, the reviewed Small Green Computer SonicTransporter and the SONORE Signature Rendu SE with systemOptique. I am very pleased with the performance, both as server and streamer. 

If you consider the Rendu, make sure you do the systemOptique option, which can be ordered built into the Signature Rendu. I was stunned by the benefit of transitioning from an ethernet connection to an optical connection into the Signature Rendu. (See my article on the systemOptique). It's an enormous improvement over ethernet connection. 

As to DACs, I have used many. My experience is that it is almost impossible to recommend a DAC as universally superior, as every last one has done better/poorer with different combinations of gear. One of the most consistent in all systems has been the Exogal comet with Plus Power Supply. However, in some systems the COS D1 DAC+Pre has superseded it. Then again, the reverse is also true in particular systems. I have found no universal superiority with any DAC tested to date. I have most definitely found superiority of certain DACS in certain systems. Don't let anyone tell you that any given DAC can't be beat. 

But, I wouldn't quickly return to the old Ethernet standard. Perhaps someday a standard Ethernet/DAC combo will impress, but that remains to be seen.   COS D1 also reviewed for Dagogo.com 

douglas ,thanks so much for the informative insights!

mikepaul