Is feedback on ANY website worth anything? Buyers/sellers are only as good as the outcome of the transaction you are involved in. Online sales-good luck. But so far, feedback is all we have to go on or your gut feeling. I like using the phone to check out things out before I enter into a deal. If you are denied a phone #, then looks like trouble ahead. |
I like to have a phone chat either buying or selling. With all my sale items I reply with a phone ## and suggest the buyer call.....some do, some don't.
Best,
Paul :-) |
eBay is the Devil. Not enough info...?
First, I've been on AudiogoN since there was about 3-5 new ads per day. I knew everybody that utilized the site. We didn't exchange feedback. I bet I had 15 transactions before I ever felt the need to ask for feedback. I actually had a guy send me a $5000 preamp to listen to just becuase he wanted me to hear it! I sent it back 14 days later. No problems.
Over the past couple of years the eBayers have been trickling in. More scams, more negative feedback, more problems, more "not as advertised".
While this is still the main (if not only) place I utilize, it has become tainted....and it all started with "check my feedback on eBay."
Three times I've "trusted" the eBay feedback crap. Three times I've been burnt. I'm sure there are good people using eBay, I know some. But why take the chance?
Advise for newbies (no matter where you are from):
DEAL WITH PEOPLE WITH FEEDBACK HERE. PAY UP FRONT. SEND GOOD PRODUCT. GET GOOD FEEDBACK HERE. DEVELOP A REPUTATION HERE!!!
BTW...this made me think of somehting else I've seen more of lately. Some new guy with ZERO feedback (or even more humorus if they have negative feedback) advertising a piece for $15,000 and demanding certified funds up front. Are you kidding me? Let's see you want me to send you $15000 upfront on something I could buy new for $17500, I don't know you, you have no feedback.... come on folks use some common sence people.
Once again, if you are the new person with no feedback, don't be so demanding with what you will and won't do. Go back to where ever you think that would float...
Enough, this subject comes up ever so often (I bitch every time). Buyer Beware!
Later,
Jon |
No, Beware of Ebay feedback. |
Well, as you state, everyone is new here at one point or another. Those who are new to Audiogon assume that their Ebay rating should have some merit here, (regardless of that fact that it doesn't). I usually cut them some slack, and as Clamps says, get a phone number and actually talk to them on the phone. I do this for all my big purchases, and I invite all my buyers to call me as well.
(It puts them at ease, since I only accept money orders, as I hate PayPal.)
One thing Mt10425: You started a short paragraph at 4 am, and finished it at 5:30 am? An hour and a half to write 5 sentences? Have a great weekend and get some sleep man! |
Yeah, thanks Kurt. I usually type slow but this morning I had to think before I typed (not always the case as some of you know from my previous posts). :)) |
ebay feedback doesn't carry much weight with me. |
There are two sides to every coin Kurt. I am a relative newbee to Audiogon despite being an audiophile for decades. I can remeber a dozen years ago or so I had to pour over the pages of Stereo review, Audio and Stereophile to find any possible source of vintage tubes to try in AR preamp. Results were spotty but indicated there may be gold out there somewhere. Six months ago I tried that experiment again and was able to bring in top flight NOS Bugle Boys, Telefunken Cca, Siemens Cca, Amperex PQ yadda yadda from all over the world via eBay. Stay with great feedback and every transaction was perfect. Kept what I wanted and resold the rest, again on eBay, zero problems. My own feedback is 100% there and it means something to me and to sellers IMHO. I have done one transaction on Audiogon and checked the sellers rep on eBay before I even contacted him. Nothing in life is cast in stone but if you have 1293 positive feedbacks with 99.9% positive it means a lot to me about who I am doing business with. |
I actually have been burned twice on audiogon and only once on eBay. I would agree though the quality of people and goods here is far superior to the internet yard sale of ebay. You can get a deal now and then on ebay but I feel the risk is greater.
As far as no feedback folks - I will ask them to ship the product to me and pay then after reciept based on the fact that I have an established reputation and they do not. I have done this twice with success on audiogon but never on ebay. |
It can help, but there is no difinative answer. AND you can trust me on that one, I'm honest, as my feedback indicates. If my AudiogoN feedback doesn't convince you, check my feedback on Ebay. |
There are a few things anybody can do to make a transaction flow.
I've always relied on the phone call & serial # for my biggest clues. Way too many examples to mention but if you're trying to make a deal with a DEALER (let alone an individual) and they won't give you the SN, it's time to look elsewhere.
I also look at both the feedback received & what that person left, so I can get a better idea of whom I'm about to contact. In the case of no feedback, make the phone call to get a feel for who the person is. I've made a handful of deals w/folks w/no feedback & they all turned out very well.
I'll admit I'm a bit jaded by ebay but more than likely it's just the enormity of the place. The more traders there are, the more likely you'll run into a bad one.
Leaving out the retail price doesn't bother me but giving a piece an inflated rating does. I just passed on a preamp because the pics didn't match the rating & the follow-up was a waste of time.
Speaking of pics, I generally avoid those items that have none, for all the obvious reasons.
I've also been accused of 'buying' feedback, as how could just a regular audiophile have so many transactions? Let me tell you, it started getting expensive, so I had to cut back.
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July 2, 2005
Yes, It is worth something but no nearly as much as Audiogon. More importantly the Audiogon site is worth a lot more than ebay to buyers (but is likely not as profitable to the sites owners as Ebay is.)
On ebay there are no standardized condition listing or standard list of what is included in sale (box, manual remote, etc etc.)It is very much a "caveat emptor" kind of place despite what ebay would have you believe.
Many of the ebay sellers are in a home business trying to make a profit on items that they do not own personally but bought and are trying to resell. Audiogoners, in contrast are mostly trying to sell used items they bought for personal use and sell to recoup some of their investment.
Questions get answered much more promptly on Audiogon and shipping is not inflated as it is on ebay which, I suspect, is to recoup ebay fees. Audiogoners know a lot more about the equipment they are selling than ebayers do. Ebayers may have never actually used the equipment they are selling.
Celebrate your independence this Independence Day. Don't use ebay when you can use Audiogon. |
While I might have liked more of the wrath of god sort of thing when attempts to rip me off were made, and was quite annoyed that the only way to remove unjustified negatives was to agree to withdraw my highly justified negative feedback, I have found Audiogon more interested in getting things corrected than Ebay. Two attempts to rip me off were made in each marketplace, but only the ones on Ebay were successful, because they just don't care. I say if it's ebay, to hell with it. |
feedback is feedback. What I care about for an online purchase is 1)is the person selling or buying legitimate?, 2) is the person credible?, 3) Is the condition of item clearly and honestly described, and 4) of course price, terms, etc.
Proving #1 and 2 to me is done as effectively with ebay feedback as it is with A'gon. Indeed, a seller with 100 transaction feedback on ebay is more impressive to me than one with 5 transactions on A'gon, depending on WHAT the feedback says.
Proving #3 can't be done with feedback IMHO. For that it requires a conversation. I've done deals on both sites and when interested in an item ask VERY expilicit questions about the condition. If I receive equally explicit answers, I feel more confident. My experience is ebay sellers are more often than A'gon sellers terse in their response (leading me to believe they are dishonest, when they may simply be lazy or dumb). I say adios in these cases. I've also received terse replies on A'gon though.
for #4, well, we all have to work that out, and roll the dice. |
If it's under the same username then I like to know about it if the person here has little feedback. It helps. My Ebay feedback is 260 and I use the same username at all sites so everybody will know it's me. I've not had any significant problem on Audiogon and have had only 2 on Ebay. Fortunately most people are honest but I'm always wary. Last deal here this guy actually sent me the amp before he got any money which made me feel good that he trusted me. We talked on the phone a couple of times and phone conversations I think are worth alot to both parties. |
What if the scammer uses a screename of an Ebay'er that has a reputable rating? |
I never take Ebay feedback into consideration. If someone doesn't have Audiogon feedback, fine, they are new here. I would be just a bit more cautious and do a little more due diligence (I am generally pretty paranoid to begin with). Ebay feedback does not impress me at all - no offense intended to you Ebay power sellers.
Like others here, I typically require a telephone conversation before sending money. I enjoy chatting with fellow hobbyists and I have met some very interesting people this way. That's one thing that I really like about Audiogon, almost everyone here is a hobbyist, even if they regularly make a profit through their transactions.
For the record: I have been hosed once on Ebay and once on Audiogon. |
Interesting thread.
No one who has ever contacted us through audiogon and
told us to check their ebay feedback has ever bought anything.
"Check my ebay feedback" is kind of an inside dealer joke.
"A+++ ebayer super sale" (ie; $4 sale...).
A staff member at a hifi site once told us:
"For an accurate ebay feedback rating just take
the members ebay feedback and divide it by 100". |
I am extremely cautious about anyone out there with little prior feedback and then gives the "E-Bay Feedback" line. Just for starters, my original E-Bay account has been terminated due to E-Bay's inability to stop someone that hacked my original account. What passes for account "Security" on E-Bay is a joke in my mind. And I have largely stopped doing business on E-Bay because of my poor experiences with them.
In more than a few cases, I have purchased items for a few dollars more from people with lots of feedback on Audiogon rather than dealing with some newby that has the same item with little or no feedback. |
I've sold on both and bought on eBay. Feedback is important, but it's only a vague indicator. For eBay, if someone has less than 99% positive, it's a warning sign. Most important is to read the negative feedbackthat's revealing. AND watch out for neutral feedback. It's a pulled punch. I had one not so good transaction with a seller on eBay. Everything worked out only because of my calm, polite, INSISTANCE to return item and be refunded. I should have given the seller negative feedback, but settled for none. Remember, feedback is mutual. We all want to keep our own record good and I knew from our interaction that a negative would have been revenged with a negative. So sometimes there is 'hidden' feedback, the feedback never given. The point is, if everyone truly posted the deserved feedback, there'd be much more negative than there is. |
Is it not worth the price of a potential long term/serious/active member to buy or sell even some lower priced items here on Agon' to develop a decent, if not slight, feedback?
I think it is worth buying, let's say, a Signal power cord ($60) or a few c.d.'s ($20,) cheaper interconnects, or whatever.
Spend a few dollars, initiate or respond to a few threads, gain some respect, and, through a short amount of time earn some trust.
Feedback on another sight to me means just that. Feedback on another sight. No real credibility here, folks. |
While everyone is venting out. I may as well do the same. E-bay means nothing,period! Let'see if I can go on E-bay (where I have zero feedback) and say I have excellent feedback on Audiogon! I'm sure they would get a good laugh out of that one.I've been on this site since 1999. (those were the good old days)I've built an impeccable feedback. I've even done at least 35 or 40 positive transaction where no feedback was exchanged at all for whatever reason or another. I've never missrepresented anything and have conducted myself in a professional manner. I even tried my hand at being a dealer for a while. That was the most money I've ever lost! I was too nice and gave way too much discounts to so called friends(it's amazing the amount of friends you have when you can buy stuff 40 to 50% off).The whole point of feedback(at least the old method) is to build a reputation. I saw a product not long ago and the person had no feedback so, I emailed and said that if they were willing to send me the product COD that I would purchase it. They declined, they were not interested in trying to build a good rep.they just wanted someone to trust them on air! I'm sorry we're talking people's hard earned money here.Oh while I'm at it, I'm not a computer guru so digital cameras are beyond me. My feedback is perfect and I've sold $15,000.00 speakers recently to an individual who trusted that feedback and many e-mails.He never got a picture from me. He asked and I told him I just couldn't, he trusted me solely on my feedback. He got a great deal on the speakers and if you ask him I'm sure he's happier than hog in mud. I don't misrep anything. I've bought items that had a beautiful picture that I when I got the item it was in worse shape than the pictures revealed. Pictures can sometimes make things look better than they actually are! You who have tried some internet dating sites can say amen to that. If people expect to sell stuff with no feedback and use pretty pictures and all the carefully placed words and marketing skills they may posses then they can buy products from me with perfect feedback and no picture! With that said until I obtain a digital camera and learn to use it I'll not be including pictures in my adds. |
Definitely its important to deal with Seller with good postive feedback whether its audiogon or ebay. So far my experience in audiogon is excellent with seller with low feedback. However on ebay, its treading on dangerous water if u deal with anyone with low feedback. Even power seller can be unreliable. I have a couple of bad experience in ebay. Last year I have a seller www.watchstore24.de whom I won a bid ( accidentally- too long a story to explain) for a watch worth USD17600 ( tht what the bull at the watch site) for only USd1035. When I receive the watch its packaging is worse that a cheap japanese watch seller for USD50. I immediately contacted seller for refund and he reluctantly agreed. However when I sent it to him, he turn around and complain to ebay i didnt pay for the watch and thru paypal denied that he has received it. I have to go thru Germany post ( took me 5mths ) to proof that he actually signed for it. Finally he paid after 5 mths and ebay/paypal ruled in his favour 5mths ago. Another seller refused to sell an item that I won and there is nothing I can do despite complaining to ebay. However if U bid and won and dont pay, Seller can send u an unpaid strike. How is tht for fairness
Recently I was conned by Dingbat$ and when I complain to ebay, after 2 weeks only 1 response fr ebay and till now still investigating and now he is continue his conning way
BEWARE OF DINGBAT$ (EBAY)
As for audiogon, good experience with every sellers I have deal with so far even those with low feedback. However I thk we shld proceed with cautious with low feedback sellers |
I noticed most of the time a Ebay review is nothing more than a copy of the original review the manufacturer used orginally. |
Means less than nothing.Good luck though. |
Do you think the OP is following this 15 year old thread? If he is he sure got plenty of time on his hands! |
Ha ha, in the 15 years since this thread was started - eBay feedback got even less useful because sellers can no longer leave negative feedback for the buyer.
About a month ago, I had an item listed on eBay for $1800. Buyer made me a $1500 which I immediately accepted... then nothing. Never paid. All I could do was wait 10 days to close the case and get my fees credited. Couldn't leave the buyer negative feedback. eBay will "punish" them only if they do that 2 or 3 times in like a 3 month timespan... so basically, there is nothing you can do when someone doesn't pay and you can't even warn the community with bad feedback.
That said, I still get a warmer, fuzzier feeling when someone with 500 feedback bids on my $2k item than someone with no feedback.
A new problem is that no one leaves feedback any more. I only have 1 audiogon sale and didn't get any feedback. On another site, I've done about $8k in purchases recently and no one has left me any feedback there either... heck they don't even show up in my transaction record!
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Do you think the OP is following this 15 year old thread? If he is he sure got plenty of time on his hands!
Unfortunately it appears that Limomangus is trying to resurrect every old thread still in existence....... |
A new problem is that no one leaves feedback any more.
As a 20 year eBay "veteran " I would have to disagree somewhat with that. From what I see it is only the newcomers who cant be bothered to leave feedback, the old school still do on a regular basis. And they still outweigh those who do not leave feedback. |
From what I see it is only the newcomers who cant be bothered to leave feedback, the old school still do on a regular basis.
And they still outweigh those who do not leave feedback.
I would agree except there are a lot of newcomers on eBay now. I would estimate out of my last 50 transactions, I probably only received feedback on around 1/2 to 2/3 of them. Currently a tad over 400 on eBay. I'm 0 for 1 on audiogon and 0 for 2 on usaudiomart. |
Necro thread, but FWIW it's no longer 1995 or even 2005 and none of us was born yesterday. So if someone can't point to a track record *somewhere* I tend to look askance.
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